PA - Amtrak train from Washington crashes in Philadelphia, May 2015

[corundogs]

An engineer that used to travel this route was on MSNBC earlier. He indicated that it would be normal to be accelerating in that stretch. He noted what was missing what appeared to be missing was the normal process of applying the break leading up to the curve. Maybe he was distracted by the rock or something else at the time he should have been applying the brake.

They said he was going 70 which is the speed limit and then 44 seconds before the derailment, he increased the speed to 106. When he should have been decreasing to 50. That is a major issue! And being distracted by a rock flying into your window is not enough of an explanation. Apparently, I might be the only one who thinks so.

The speed limit in that area is NOT 100!!!! There is just no reasonable explanation for him to be going that fast.

 

[jjenny]

The account from Johns Hopkins student Justin Landis makes him the third person to report a projectile hitting a train Tuesday night in that area, and comes a day after the National Transportation Safety Board said investigators were working to determine whether something struck the doomed Amtrak train before it derailed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/am...amtrak-says-his-train-was-also-struck-n360031

That's because two other trains (SERTA and another Amtrak (Amtrack Acela) were hit. It doesn't prove Amtrak that derailed was also hit.

 

[jjenny]

They said he was going 70 which is the speed limit and then 44 seconds before the derailment, he increased the speed to 102. When he should have been decreasing to 50. That is a major issue! And being distracted by a rock flying into your window is not enough of an explanation. Apparently, I might be the only one who thinks so.

The speed limit in that area is NOT 100!!!! There is just no reasonable explanation for him to be going that fast.

You are not the only one who thinks it's bizarre. The train should have been slowing down but it accelerated instead.

 

[jjenny]

An engineer that used to travel this route was on MSNBC earlier. He indicated that it would be normal to be accelerating in that stretch. He noted what was missing what appeared to be missing was the normal process of applying the break leading up to the curve. Maybe he was distracted by the rock or something else at the time he should have been applying the brake.

I don't think this engineer understands the timeline. Train was at a normal speed but instead of slowing down into the curve the train accelerated.
"Investigators on Thursday watched a video shot from the front of the train until the moment it left the track. Mr. Sumwalt said that with 65 seconds to go until the end of the video, the train’s speed was 70 m.p.h. With 16 seconds to go, the speed was 100 m.p.h.; the train eventually hit 106 m.p.h. before the engineer slammed on the emergency brakes, at which point it slowed slightly."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-crash.html

 

[renee300]

"Karl Edler, a retired engineer who drove the line hundreds of times, said an impact could help explain the wreck. When a train pulls out of the North Philadelphia station, the engineer usually twists the throttle “up to notch eight, which is engineer-speak for wide open” he said.

It is about three miles to the curve where Amtrak 188 derailed.

“Usually you just leave the throttle open until you get up to 80 miles per hour, then put on the brake for the curve,” he said. “Seems reasonable that something happened right about that time he would have started slowing down that kept him from taking the throttle off. He was startled by the impact or whatever. And by the time he realized it, it was too late.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/u...eyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html?_r=0

 

[MyBelle]

That's because two other trains (SERTA and another Amtrak (Amtrack Acela) were hit. It doesn't prove Amtrak that derailed was also hit.

I didn't suggest my link proved anything beyond an investigation is underway. Some of us prefer to form our opinions once an investigation is complete.

JMO

the National Transportation Safety Board said investigators were working to determine whether something struck the doomed Amtrak train before it derailed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/amt...struck-n360031

 

[corundogs]

OK...let's just say that this alleged - and I use that word very strongly - impact distracted this experienced, reportedly very knowledgeable engineer.

Sorry, but that is just unacceptable to me! And it seems most of y'all are trying to explain this away with this distraction.

If you are so easily distracted, you shouldn't be in a position to have so many people's lives in your hands! I sure as heck wouldn't want him in charge of any train I was about to get on!!!!

Hasn't anyone had a rock or something else hit your windshield while you are driving? Did you drive off the road because of it? Speed up and slam into car ahead of you?? No??? I didn't think so. I would say, if anything, you took your foot OFF the gas!!!

So why are you expecting someone operating a MUCH larger piece of equipment to do that?

 

[Bravo]

It is possible, depending on how many routes he regularly runs - my husband has top know around 20 odd routes. I can quite easily believe that he was distracted for some reason (tiredness, something hit the windscreen and startled him, doing something else), and just lost track (sorry, couldn't find another word that fitted) of where he was on the route and thought he'd passed the curve. According to my husband, who is a train driver, it happens way more than you might think (mostly missing where to stop for red lights/passing red lights, places where there are speed changes, etc).

I don't know about the US, but certainly over here, drivers can work 11 hour days, 13 days straight, up at all hours of the day/night. That plays hell with concentration and memory. Frankly, I'm sometimes amazed there aren't more incidents.

That's just whack all those hrs??? What does the Union say about it? I'm Canadian and know how our Unions work so very curious about this. We also have an Employee standard act issued by the Government. I guess what I really want to know is are those hrs. scheduled or agreed upon by a call? TIA

 

[corundogs]

"Karl Edler, a retired engineer who drove the line hundreds of times, said an impact could help explain the wreck. When a train pulls out of the North Philadelphia station, the engineer usually twists the throttle “up to notch eight, which is engineer-speak for wide open” he said.

It is about three miles to the curve where Amtrak 188 derailed.

“Usually you just leave the throttle open until you get up to 80 miles per hour, then put on the brake for the curve,” he said. “Seems reasonable that something happened right about that time he would have started slowing down that kept him from taking the throttle off. He was startled by the impact or whatever. And by the time he realized it, it was too late.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/u...eyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html?_r=0

This doesn't make any sense based on the map we have repeatedly seen leaving the 30th Street Station to the place of the crash.

There are very sharp turns immediately coming out of the station. Then a stretch of say, 3 miles, and then a curve almost as sharp as the one where this train derailed...then another stretch of say 1-2 miles, then this curve.

It is NOT a wide open situation, at all. At least the way I see the map! Which is why the speed limit is 70, not 100.

 

[MyBelle]

OK...let's just say that this alleged - and I use that word very strongly - impact distracted this experienced, reportedly very knowledgeable engineer.

Sorry, but that is just unacceptable to me! And it seems most of y'all are trying to explain this away with this distraction.

If you are so easily distracted, you shouldn't be in a position to have so many people's lives in your hands! I sure as heck wouldn't want him in charge of any train I was about to get on!!!!

Hasn't anyone had a rock or something else hit your windshield while you are driving? Did you drive off the road because of it? Speed up and slam into car ahead of you?? No??? I didn't think so. I would say, if anything, you took your foot OFF the gas!!!

So why are you expecting someone operating a MUCH larger piece of equipment to do that?

There is no gas pedal on a locomotive engine.

If a locomotive is not maintained properly, its systems can fail just as a jet plane can fail. It is a tad early to be dog-piling on the engineer.

JMO

 

[corundogs]

There is no gas pedal on a locomotive engine.

If a locomotive is not maintained properly, its systems can fail just as a jet plane can fail. It is a tad early to be dog-piling on the engineer.

JMO

This locomotive is less than a year old, if I am remembering the reporting correctly. And had been inspected the day prior, again if I am remembering the reporting correctly. This was heard on CNN.

And of course, there is no gas pedal. There is a lever or whatever you want to call it. You seem to think that if a rock hits the windshield he should be so startled and distracted that he shoves it into the wide open position?

Sorry, I just don't buy that.

 

[MyBelle]

This locomotive is less than a year old, if I am remembering the reporting correctly. And had been inspected the day prior, again if I am remembering the reporting correctly. This was heard on CNN.

And of course, there is no gas pedal. There is a lever or whatever you want to call it. You seem to think that if a rock hits the windshield he should be so startled and distracted that he shoves it into the wide open position?

Sorry, I just don't buy that.

BBM. Respectfully, you may not buy it but someone who has actually worked on that train does believe the engineer did not intentionally increase the speed of the train. I prefer to rely on informed sources to form my opinion.

JMO

An Amtrak conductor who previously worked on Train 188 told a Tampa ABC affiliate that some type of "outside force" likely caused the engineer to increase speed to more than 100 mph.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/outside-force-speed-increase-conductor-suggests/

 

[Bravo]

Reading along but my Thanks button is broken again otherwise i would have thanked several posts. Grrrrrrrrrrrr..........................

 

[MyBelle]

That's just whack all those hrs??? What does the Union say about it? I'm Canadian and know how our Unions work so very curious about this. We also have an Employee standard act issued by the Government. I guess what I really want to know is are those hrs. scheduled or agreed upon by a call? TIA

The problem is that the employer is a government agency. President Reagan showed in 1981 when he fired striking Air Traffic Controllers that the feds have no regard for unions when they express concerns over safety.

JMO

 

[corundogs]

BBM. Respectfully, you may not buy it but someone who has actually worked on that train does believe the engineer did not intentionally increase the speed of the train. I prefer to rely on informed sources to form my opinion.

JMO

An Amtrak conductor who previously worked on Train 188 told a Tampa ABC affiliate that some type of "outside force" likely caused the engineer to increase speed to more than 100 mph.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/outside-force-speed-increase-conductor-suggests/

Then they need to redesign the dang trains! If you can be so easily distracted that you drive the train off the track and kill 8 people and severely injure many more - and of much less importance - destroy a multi million dollar train...then you shouldn't be in charge of that train!!! Since when has it been OK that if you distracted by some outside force, and you kill people, it was somehow not your fault, because you got distracted!

I am honestly confused about this!

 

[MyBelle]

Then they need to redesign the dang trains! If you can be so easily distracted that you drive the train off the track and kill 8 people and severely injure many more - and of much less importance - destroy a multi million dollar train...then you shouldn't be in charge of that train!!! Since when has it been OK that if you distracted by some outside force, and you kill people, it was somehow not your fault, because you got distracted!

I am honestly confused about this!

I'm not sure what confuses you because accidents have happened since trains were invented. All forms of travel carry some risk.

JMO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

OK...let's just say that this alleged - and I use that word very strongly - impact distracted this experienced, reportedly very knowledgeable engineer.

Sorry, but that is just unacceptable to me! And it seems most of y'all are trying to explain this away with this distraction.

If you are so easily distracted, you shouldn't be in a position to have so many people's lives in your hands! I sure as heck wouldn't want him in charge of any train I was about to get on!!!!

Hasn't anyone had a rock or something else hit your windshield while you are driving? Did you drive off the road because of it? Speed up and slam into car ahead of you?? No??? I didn't think so. I would say, if anything, you took your foot OFF the gas!!!

So why are you expecting someone operating a MUCH larger piece of equipment to do that?

It's not as simple as that. People are not robots. Someone who is well trained, experienced, well rested, and healthy still has an error rate. When he was at the top of his game, Michael Jordan still missed free throws. Add on to this the fact that people get tired, people get colds, people get distracted. The accident happened in the late evening, at the end of a long day. No matter how good he is at his job, he surely was tired... Or at least not as "fresh" as he had been at the beginning of his shift that morning. And likely his reaction time was slower than it would have been otherwise. So let's say something hit his windshield, at a somewhat critical time when he should be starting to apply the brakes. He's startled, and in the few seconds longer it takes him to react... And we are talking a matter of seconds making the difference... The train continues to accelerate instead of slowing down. That's all it takes.

There has been no suggestion that it was intentional, like a suicide attempt, nor has there been any suggestion that he was texting, reading a book, doing a crossword puzzle, or otherwise intentionally engaging in risky behavior while driving the train.

I can't see crucifying him with what we know at this point.

 

[bettybaby00]

I don't think this engineer understands the timeline. Train was at a normal speed but instead of slowing down into the curve the train accelerated.
"Investigators on Thursday watched a video shot from the front of the train until the moment it left the track. Mr. Sumwalt said that with 65 seconds to go until the end of the video, the train’s speed was 70 m.p.h. With 16 seconds to go, the speed was 100 m.p.h.; the train eventually hit 106 m.p.h. before the engineer slammed on the emergency brakes, at which point it slowed slightly."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-crash.html

There seems to be quite a bit of differing opinions among experts regarding the possible effect a distraction might have had on the engineer. But what I can't figure out is if there is a recording from an installed forward facing camera, wouldn't it have captured the "projectile" that caused the damage to the windshield?

I have no knowledge of how the train accelerates, but it seems to be a hand control (like an airplane) versus a foot pedal, and I would think that even if something hit the windshield there are only 2 logical outcomes.

1) if engineer actually had to "hold" the throttle with his hand in a certain position to control speed, then I would think something striking the train would cause him to release his hold. Much like your foot automatically comes off the gas pedal when one is startled while driving.
Or
2) if the throttle is "set" into a position to obtain a certain speed, then wouldn't the train have just continued on at the same speed as when the projectile hit it?

This guy is asserting the engineer actually increased speed after this alleged strike....this doesn't make sense to me at all.

MOOOOOOO

 

[MyBelle]

There seems to be quite a bit of differing opinions among experts regarding the possible effect a distraction might have had on the engineer. But what I can't figure out is if there is a recording from an installed forward facing camera, wouldn't it have captured the "projectile" that caused the damage to the windshield?

I have no knowledge of how the train accelerates, but it seems to be a hand control (like an airplane) versus a foot pedal, and I would think that even if something hit the windshield there are only 2 logical outcomes.

1) if engineer actually had to "hold" the throttle with his hand in a certain position to control speed, then I would think something striking the train would cause him to release his hold. Much like your foot automatically comes off the gas pedal when one is startled while driving.
Or
2) if the throttle is "set" into a position to obtain a certain speed, then wouldn't the train have just continued on at the same speed as when the projectile hit it?

This guy is asserting the engineer actually increased speed after this alleged strike....this doesn't make sense to me at all.

MOOOOOOO

If the projectile was directed at the train from its side, I doubt it would be captured on the video. Trains take an incredibly long time to slow down but I think the question is why didn't the engineer apply the brakes? I'd like to know if the train had a dead man's switch on it.

JMO

 

[corundogs]

If the projectile was directed at the train from its side, I doubt it would be captured on the video. Trains take an incredibly long time to slow down but I think the question is why didn't the engineer apply the brakes? I'd like to know if the train had a dead man's switch on it.

JMO

Except they are saying this alleged projectile hit the front of the windshield. I personally think that all of the strikes on the windshield are from the accident.

What I find confusing is all of the excuses being made for this man. I am not crucifying him. He made a tragic error and caused this accident. There is just nothing I have seen to explain away his actions - certainly not a rock hitting his windshield!!

This wasn't a "few seconds" of increased speed. It increased for 45 seconds. That is a long time to be so distracted that you have no idea what is happening to the train you are in control of.