PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

[Inthedetails]

Interesting look at the timeline and locations:

 

[Sundog]

There could be another explanation but I'm not sure what else it could be.

jmo

Agree. There have been over 50 (maybe lots more, I don't know the exact number) campaign rallies for the Trump team and all have gone on without a problem, so what happened at this one. Other rallies have been held at both inside venues and outside locations, including many airport hangars - often in rural communities.

So far it is sounding like security for this rally was poorly executed, to say the least.

 

[justtrish]

There could be another explanation but I'm not sure what else it could be.

jmo

Being close to the military community (spouse and son are Army) I think complacency comes to mind. They train and train and train and one of the biggest risks I see is getting complacent. No accidents in xyz time so things feel "easy" or maybe mindless.. just going through the motions and it leads to people messing up even the simple things.

 

[justtrish]

Interesting look at the timeline and locations:

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

For those questioning his clothing. At 1:57 or so into this video, a video of him walking is show. It's definately shorts he's wearing.

 

[fred&edna]

Being close to the military community (spouse and son are Army) I think complacency comes to mind. They train and train and train and one of the biggest risks I see is getting complacent. No accidents in xyz time so things feel "easy" or maybe mindless.. just going through the motions and it leads to people messing up even the simple things.

Complacency and/or incompetency and/or let's just cross out fingers and hope all goes well. All of which could include lack of communication.

It happens in the medical field, as well... and a physician or some medical tech/organization/hospital/clinic is held responsible.

PS: My gr-nephew did graduate Annapolis in May and is now on to air/flight training... we're all pleased as punch!! And, I'm worried as heck, too!

 

[Ladyotm]

Donald Trump heads to Michigan for first rally since assassination attempt

The rally on Saturday will be held in downtown Grand Rapids at Van Andel Arena and will be open to the public.

www.cbsnews.com

Hopefully the SS is able to provide better security at this event on Saturday and provide adequate protection for President Trump and his running mate, VP J.D. Vance, along with the other dignitaries and rally attendees who will be at the event this weekend.

I almost want to say he should lie low until there is assurance that security is tighter than it should be! By all means (even though they're trying to explain the situation we're at now), top level SS employees, including the director need to be on the ground at this event!

 

[Luna20]

When we do our active shooter/crisis plan training annually at our university, we bring in LE experts from the state, and it is drilled in to us over and over again that there is ONE person in command at the command center and he/she coordinates everything. The command center is identified in advance and communication channels are specific and written down and all parties are informed (local, regional, state and federal law enforcement). The first year we did this training was for an active shooter possibility, over the years we have done a few other scenarios. We are constantly updating the call chart, who calls who, etc. and in what order and how communication takes place and is confirmed. And when the SS comes to our campus with a political candidate for the highest office in the country (president or vice president, or both) then we defer to the SS, not to the campaign manager or anyone else. SS is in charge of the command center.

If some of our local LE are working on parking but are needed at the event or elsewhere, they are notified and drop what they are doing and move to the appropriate site and take appropriate action. Even our campus police, who are certified/licensed police offers with specialized training in active shooter/crisis situations.

It doesn't guarantee success, but everything is meticulously laid out and reviewed enough times that everyone knows the plan. I expect nothing less from the kind of event that the SS was responsible for in Butler, Pennsylvania.

As it should be. In contrast this case has so many gaps. Thanks for elaborating on your first hand experience.

 

[Charlot123]

News just reported that the cops were traffic cops and they were not responsible for security.

There was no meeting of the minds in advance. There is a name for that but I didn’t catch it.

There should have been a drone, helicopter for the obvious reasons-to see from a higher view.

Trump should have been held back as soon as something was noted. All areas should have been swiped for any other possible harmful activity.

I just saw the coverage of the SS director at the last night’s RNC with senators asking her questions. She was ignoring them and walking away from them.

There was a scheduled call with several senators yesterday and she didn’t answer most of the questions. Stonewalling.

[mod snip]

I wonder if beyond unprofessionalism, there may be other human fallacies. For example, assuming that a shooting would be unlikely because most people at these rallies are staunch supporters of former POTUS Trump, and they would never allow it to happen. Even this is not true, as we see. Of the three victims, one was a registered Democrat. If we view these rallies as merely “celebrity events”, maybe it would help to plan and protect better.

Each bit of info that comes out just makes the lapse in security look worse. (I think it was lapse in communication and lack of precise clarity regarding who was responsible for what, rather than anyone shirking their assignment.)

BBM:

"Matthew Crooks, the 20-year-old would-be assassin who opened fire on former President Donald Trump’s Pennsylvania campaign rally Saturday, hid the weapon in advance, according to a Secret Service source.
It was not immediately clear where he hid it, however.
By the time agents spotted him on the roof, he was already holding it."

Thomas Matthew Crooks hid rifle in advance of Trump rally sniper attack, Secret Service source says

Thomas Matthew Crooks hid the weapon in advance, according to a Secret Service source.

nypost.com

I think it has to be a good financial analysis. What do we need to protect vs what do we have? I believe there is a way to organize it in a cost-efficient but productive way, and surely if a guy working as a dishwasher can afford a drone, why can’t a major organization do so? Helicopter ride is doable for private citizens, why not for SS? I think the consequences of not implementing safety measures cost more.

 

[Charlot123]

I almost want to say he should lie low until there is assurance that security is tighter than it should be! By all means (even though they're trying to explain the situation we're at now), top level SS employees, including the director need to be on the ground at this event!

I never looked into his personality, but he is not a coward. Also, his reaction was fast.

 

[Charlot123]

Would Trump have been alerted of a potential threat, prior to taking the stage? I don’t know the protocol of SS - whether they brief the presidents, or simply handle a threat and allow the president to remain focused.

How would you like it to be treated in his shoes? I think that everyone has the right to be fully alerted and make an informed decision. I don’t know their protocol, but it is a morality issue.

 

[formerlyme]

How would you like it to be treated in his shoes? I think that everyone has the right to be fully alerted and make an informed decision. I don’t know their protocol, but it is a morality issue.

I think , sadly, they did not perceive the threat we now see. And I am sure they don't alert him to every odd looking individual that causes them to take a double look. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking now we clearly see what we feel they should have seen.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I addressed exactly this on Monday.
Article is from yesterday.

• Monday at 9:09 AM

What I don't get is Secret Service knows that the shooter is down but no one knows if there's a 2nd + shooter and they leave Trump standing there in the open for seconds after he says "let me get my shoe(s) and they get it.

Report

Secret Service criticized for how long it took to get Trump offstage

Some former law enforcement officials questioned why the agents allowed the injured former president to put on his shoes and pump his fist in the air.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[GatorFL]

I really hope we get to see at least a redacted version of the plan as it was a whole building complex there, far larger than on the set of buildings the USSS placed two sniper teams. However, it is understandable that the USSS snipers could have been confused, since they would have only seen TMC's head and gun, not the clothing since he was crawling up the roof rather than standing up walking.

That probably won't happen.

Jay Leno just had The Beast on his show, Jay Leno's Garage. It's the Presidential Limo. He wasn't even allowed inside it and the SS agents he interviewed were very generalized in what they told him about the limo.
One thing the SS doesn't want to do is unveil any of their tactics. They're probably upset at how much has already been revealed because of this incident.

It's a good watch if you're into cars:

 

[PrairieWind]

I addressed exactly this on Monday.
Article is from yesterday.

• Monday at 9:09 AM

What I don't get is Secret Service knows that the shooter is down but no one knows if there's a 2nd + shooter and they leave Trump standing there in the open for seconds after he says "let me get my shoe(s) and they get it.

Report

Secret Service criticized for how long it took to get Trump offstage

Some former law enforcement officials questioned why the agents allowed the injured former president to put on his shoes and pump his fist in the air.

www.nbcnews.com

I was surprised by this too. After they got him stood up, the just stand there for quite a while. Trump being so tall, his head is exposed. I would have expected them to get him on his feet, have him crouch and then just hustle him right out of there. I haven't heard any former SS agents talk about this yet.

 

[Bounceycat]

Of the three victims, one was a registered Democrat.

This is interesting, I hadn't read that. Do you have a link, please?

 

[Charlot123]

.

I think , sadly, they did not perceive the threat we now see. And I am sure they don't alert him to every odd looking individual that causes them to take a double look. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking now we clearly see what we feel they should have seen.

I think that sadly, no one can predict human behavior. We can talk about the ineptitude of the SS, like everyone else, till the cows come home. Yes, you are right, now I clearly see what I was in denial of, for a long time. All i can add is that neither the local police nor the town nor even the state of PA are guilty of the situation, IMHO.

 

[rockthecasbah]

That probably won't happen.

Jay Leno just had The Beast on his show, Jay Leno's Garage. It's the Presidential Limo. He wasn't even allowed inside it and the SS agents he interviewed were very generalized in what they told him about the limo.
One thing the SS doesn't want to do is unveil any of their tactics. They're probably upset at how much has already been revealed because of this incident.

It's a good watch if you're into cars:

Thanks. I'm not into cars at all and this was very interesting

 

[Charlot123]

This is interesting, I hadn't read that. Do you have a link, please?

The third one

Who are the Pennsylvania Trump rally victims?

A man is dead and two others have been seriously hurt in an attempt to assassinate the ex-president.

www.bbc.com

 

[Ruminations]

I wonder if beyond unprofessionalism, there may be other human fallacies. For example, assuming that a shooting would be unlikely because most people at these rallies are staunch supporters of former POTUS Trump, and they would never allow it to happen. Even this is not true, as we see. Of the three victims, one was a registered Democrat. If we view these rallies as merely “celebrity events”, maybe it would help to plan and protect better.


I think it has to be a good financial analysis. What do we need to protect vs what do we have? I believe there is a way to organize it in a cost-efficient but productive way, and surely if a guy working as a dishwasher can afford a drone, why can’t a major organization do so? Helicopter ride is doable for private citizens, why not for SS? I think the consequences of not implementing safety measures cost more.

The function of the secret service is to protect the president and some other people like vice presidents and candidates. Not celebrities.

It is an idea that was implemented after Lincoln's assassination. I believe he was being guarded by a local officer who stepped out to get a drink. Lincoln didn't survive, of course.

Before and after his death, there was a struggle to hold together the nation as one whole free nation.

And one thing that is essential to holding the nation together is holding together the government institutions. A important institution is having elected officials in our representative governments with non-violent transitions of power. A political assassination is an attempt to circumvent democratic elections. Lincoln's assassination brought to mind the possibility of having shootouts to pick presidents.

There was (still is) tension about how much power the federal government should have, and reluctance to having a secret service type institution which could look like a palace guard. But shortly after Lincoln was shot, a federal agency that existed to track down and stop counterfeiters who were printing fake currency, also became in charge of protecting the president of the US and evolved into today's secret service.

The SS is an institution protecting democracy. They don't do celebrity events.

Celebrities are generally making profits for themselves, an arena, a production company...and part of the business calculation is the amount of money they spend on safety and security. They may be asked to pay for a couple of overtime police officers or the cost of their event being in a city or town. Of course it's a negotiation, because pulling people into town might also bring in revenue for the area-it depends.

While it makes sense to ask a money-making act to pay some of its own way to keep the community safe, it doesn't make sense to ask this of a national candidate. We don't want only rich candidates to be able to afford to campaign safely.

MOO

 

[GatorFL]

Thanks. I'm not into cars and this was very interesting

After I calmed down over the whole assassination attempt I recalled I had just watched this a couple of days before. It was posted on Ferrarichat on July 8.

Those SS guys didn't say a whole lot did they?