PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

[MassGuy]

That may be, but when SS looked over the outer perimeter, it should have occurred to them, the area was not being secured.

They could have sent agents to the area, or State Police who were on site and seen on camera removing those wounded.

The SS could have contacted the sheriff and said hey what's up, where's the security?

Just because the map has a star on it doesn't mean the plan was executed.

Someone, we don't know who, was the Command Chief/Operation Manager for the SS operation. That person is ultimately responsible, could have halted the show, could have secured the area, activating more state troopers even the national guard. Nope, they became narrow-minded and only responsible in their eyes for the inner perimeter.

Moo....

Yes, I especially agree with your point about whoever was in charge of the overall security at that event. Yes the head of the SS should be held accountable, but we’re overlooking the most important person here.

 

[Waxahachie1]

Trump shooter Thomas Crooks might have been battling undiagnosed mental illness: sources

Thomas Matthew Crooks may have been struggling with an undiagnosed mental health disorder — including some form of depression — before he shot up Trump’s Pennsylvania rally, sourc…

nypost.com

<modsnip - copyright violation. See link>

This profile of the shooter began to emerge early in the discussion, thanks in large part to your posts. It seems from all the shooting deaths we fail to prevent, they can be identified only in retrospect.

How many young men like this are out there? Scary.

 

[OddOneOut]

From what I've been reading in the WaPo story linked above, SS had been told by local LE that they would have a sniper stationed on top of that roof. Even if they could see him well enough, SS tried to determine if the shooter was the local LE sniper or an assassin. From a tower, identifying that person would have been just as difficult. So far, part of this was poor communications between SS and local LE.

Just my opinion, what if this is true and for some reason that sniper did not show up and either no one noticed, or communication failed to notify everyone.

If so, what happened to the sniper that failed to show up? Was he ill, had an accident, did TC take him out in advance or was he in on TC's plans?

We know TC had two phones. One had 27 contacts in it. TC's messages were encrypted which I have never heard of before.

TC apparently knew his way around computers yet had little or no online presence?

Just my opinion as I try to make sense out of all this.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Some people are going to criticize the SS and FBI, no matter what they do or say. As long as they don't try to harm or kill them, its their right.

Its just the nature of things today. I'm waiting until the investigation is complete, but I'm absorbing all the information as it comes out in the established news media.

I’m critical of the SS director because of what she said.

Apparently rooftops with a slope are a safety hazard. They can’t put anyone up there? Apologies if this offends but that is just a stupid statement.

ETA- Link to statement
“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” said Cheatle on ABC of the perch that Thomas Matthew Crooks used to nearly kill Donald Trump.

MSN

 

[Betty P]

I’m critical of the SS director because of what she said.

Apparently rooftops with a slope are a safety hazard. They can’t put anyone up there? Apologies if this offends but that is just a stupid statement.

ETA- Link to statement
“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” said Cheatle on ABC of the perch that Thomas Matthew Crooks used to nearly kill Donald Trump.

MSN

Had local LE been watching the building, they could have stopped him from climbing up to the roof with his AR15. We'll have to see how he was able to do that without them noticing.

Oh, the irony of this:

Reagan shooter John Hinckley Jr speaks out after Trump's near miss

The man who tried to assassinate president Ronald Reagan has spoken out about Thomas Crooks' attempt on Donald Trump's life.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

Just my opinion, what if this is true and for some reason that sniper did not show up and either no one noticed, or communication failed to notify everyone.

If so, what happened to the sniper that failed to show up? Was he ill, had an accident, did TC take him out in advance or was he in on TC's plans?

We know TC had two phones. One had 27 contacts in it. TC's messages were encrypted which I have never heard of before.

TC apparently knew his way around computers yet had little or no online presence?

Just my opinion as I try to make sense out of all this.

That is common. The Uvalde killer texted his intentions on a teens app to an online friend abroad. The friend was sleeping, what with time difference, when she woke up and read the message, she had to figure out how to call the US police and warn them. By that time, it was all over. Unsurprising; there may be minimal online presence of these shooters, too. Also, it would seem that we assume that people are shy because they consider themselves not interesting to others. The reverse is fully true: other people’s interests may not be shared by them, either, so participation in groups, sitting with other people at the table, talking about things that interests these other people, may be boring to them. Narrow circumscribed interests. Narrow circumscribed interests.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Apparently rooftops with a slope are a safety hazard.

Seems the assassin missed the safety memo.

 

[Waxahachie1]

With an evolving situation this complex, and with information coming out in isolated bits including "working theories" and conflicting versions, it is too early for us to see the entire mosaic of facts, let alone to determine who is responsible and for what.

Comments here have raised important questions, but we need the pieces assembled in a comprehensive whole with all the blanks filled in and the CYA factor filtered out. That will require patience, which is in short supply. Understandably.

It will also require political leadership from both sides, which may or may not be forthcoming....

 

[Elley Mae]

MSN

 

[formerlyme]

I keep thinking along these lines, yes we are seeing a lot of inconsistencies (what we view as inconsistencies) in the security at the event. BUT are we seeing them only because something happened, this could be the way things operate A LOT of the time and we just don't know because nothing has happened. We are hearing from EX insiders. I just feel that this may be standard operating procedure and luck has been around at other events.

 

[Luna20]

I’m critical of the SS director because of what she said.

Apparently rooftops with a slope are a safety hazard. They can’t put anyone up there? Apologies if this offends but that is just a stupid statement.

ETA- Link to statement
“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” said Cheatle on ABC of the perch that Thomas Matthew Crooks used to nearly kill Donald Trump.

MSN

She added to that slope roof nonsense “it was very hot outside”. These guys have training for all types of roofs, many are more complicated.

Too hot for what??! I’m sure there are things that can be done to help with that but it wasn’t too hot for the shooter. He was stretched out full body contact with lightweight clothing on. I didn’t see a hat or gloves. Did he have either?

Other countries must think we are stupid.

 

[formerlyme]

Ex-FBI Agent's Analysis Of Secret Service's Actions Surrounding Trump Assassination Attempt

The highly-experienced retired FBI agent was baffled by the nearby unattended rooftops in clear line-of-sight of the former president.

www.twz.com

"Coordination is “tough” in these circumstances, said the former agent, who recalled that during Clinton’s visit to Seattle as the WTO protests unfolded in 1999, agents narrowly averted a friendly fire tragedy.

“Seattle PD and King County Sheriff deputies were in an observation post during WTO in a high-rise adjacent residential building,” the former agent said. “With their tags around their neck. Calling in protester movements to the Joint Operations Center (JOC).”

As they were calling out violent demonstrators’ movement, “USSS kicked in their door with weapons drawn on the two detectives at their assigned location. That was a failure of the counter-assault team and PPD to work with local USSS coordinating intel. The USSS snipers saw two guys with radios looking out a non-opening window and thought they were a threat to Clinton.”

Apparently friendly fire between local LE and SS isn't unheard of, and I can't think of a good reason for the sniper teams to be dressed as civilians. It would make sense for assets in the crowd to blend in, but not sniper teams or officers who are obviously there as security.

have we confirmed he was wearing shorts? in the clearer photo I really thought I saw camo pants, and the snipers were in all camo though I don't think he looks like LE, based on body mass and age but I don't feel that is a good assessment as I have seen very young appearing officers. Wouldn't' they brief with each other prior to a shared job and at least be slightly familiar with who is who and what positions they would be in ?

 

[shotgun09]

have we confirmed he was wearing shorts? in the clearer photo I really thought I saw camo pants, and the snipers were in all camo though I don't think he looks like LE, based on body mass and age but I don't feel that is a good assessment as I have seen very young appearing officers. Wouldn't' they brief with each other prior to a shared job and at least be slightly familiar with who is who and what positions they would be in ?

Do you mean....Communication ??
Nah..... <s>

 

[Mica]

Moo... On earlier threads, it was states he had a CTScan.

I think once the bandage is off his ear we will be able to see the damage.

I assume he's doing OK, he's been in the media everyday since.

Moo...

Dr. Ronny Jackson talks about Trump’s injury. Because the ear is vascular, he says it continues to bleed and will require a bandage for several days.

Dr. Ronny Jackson reveals Trump's ear continues to bleed

The Texas lawmaker tells DailyMail.com Trump likely needs to wear an ear bandage through the start of the convention, but that his wound should heal properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Luna20]

I keep thinking along these lines, yes we are seeing a lot of inconsistencies (what we view as inconsistencies) in the security at the event. BUT are we seeing them only because something happened, this could be the way things operate A LOT of the time and we just don't know because nothing has happened. We are hearing from EX insiders. I just feel that this may be standard operating procedure and luck has been around at other events.

They failed at the most basic level to start with. They are supposed to identify positions on paper with any organization’s that are present. Firefighters, etc.

The higher ground security should have been more than just 2 of them. That seems to be common sense to me. If both of the guys were taken down by TC, he would have had free range space. There would have been many more casualties. But one is too much.

 

[thebedbug]

She added to that slope roof nonsense “it was very hot outside”. These guys have training for all types of roofs, many are more complicated.

Too hot for what??! I’m sure there are things that can be done to help with that but it wasn’t too hot for the shooter. He was stretched out full body contact with lightweight clothing on. I didn’t see a hat or gloves. Did he have either?

Other countries must think we are stupid.

I doubt there is any other country in the world that puts out so much effort to protect presidential candidates.

Other countries might laugh at the USA about a lot of things... mostly it's straight up envy.

 

[fred&edna]

That may be, but when SS looked over the outer perimeter, it should have occurred to them, the area was not being secured.

They could have sent agents to the area, or State Police who were on site and seen on camera removing those wounded.

The SS could have contacted the sheriff and said hey what's up, where's the security?

Just because the map has a star on it doesn't mean the plan was executed.

Someone, we don't know who, was the Command Chief/Operation Manager for the SS operation. That person is ultimately responsible, could have halted the show, could have secured the area, activating more state troopers even the national guard. Nope, they became narrow-minded and only responsible in their eyes for the inner perimeter.

Moo....

All those minutes they had to stop what was happening. What were those agents in charge actually doing... occupying the portalets, busy polishing their badges?? Whatever answers they "might" creatively provide... can we believe them?

Maybe it's old news but apparently the view of the sniper team closest to the shooter was blocked by trees.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

have we confirmed he was wearing shorts? in the clearer photo I really thought I saw camo pants, and the snipers were in all camo though I don't think he looks like LE, based on body mass and age but I don't feel that is a good assessment as I have seen very young appearing officers. Wouldn't' they brief with each other prior to a shared job and at least be slightly familiar with who is who and what positions they would be in ?

Snipers work in teams. They normally have a spotter. This shooter was alone on the roof.

It should be a dead giveaway when TC is looking at the snipers across the way with his rangefinder. imo

Secret Service was warned about, ID’d Thomas Crooks as a ‘threat’ 10 minutes before Trump took stage — but let ex-president go on anyway

The Secret Service designated Thomas Matthew Crooks as a ‘threat” before former President Donald Trump took the stage, but allowed him to go on anyway, law enforcement sources told the …

nypost.com

The lanky, awkward Crooks apparently stuck out in the crowd like a sore thumb from the moment he arrived.

He set off the metal detector at the rally entrance because he was carrying a rangefinder — a type of eyepiece scope often used by hunters or golfers to determine far-off distances on the fly.

Despite the unusual item, Crooks breezed right through the entry gates.

It wasn’t even confiscated, and a rooftop counter-sniper team would later report Crooks was scoping them out with his rangefinder while they watched him with theirs.

 

[formerlyme]

Snipers work in teams. They normally have a spotter. This shooter was alone on the roof.

It should be a dead giveaway when TC is looking at the snipers across the way with his rangefinder. imo

Secret Service was warned about, ID’d Thomas Crooks as a ‘threat’ 10 minutes before Trump took stage — but let ex-president go on anyway

The Secret Service designated Thomas Matthew Crooks as a ‘threat” before former President Donald Trump took the stage, but allowed him to go on anyway, law enforcement sources told the …

nypost.com

The lanky, awkward Crooks apparently stuck out in the crowd like a sore thumb from the moment he arrived.

He set off the metal detector at the rally entrance because he was carrying a rangefinder — a type of eyepiece scope often used by hunters or golfers to determine far-off distances on the fly.

Despite the unusual item, Crooks breezed right through the entry gates.

It wasn’t even confiscated, and a rooftop counter-sniper team would later report Crooks was scoping them out with his rangefinder while they watched him with theirs.

I thought he was looking through the range finder when he was on the ground earlier not on the roof? and yes I know he was a shooter not a sniper but there was a photo posted early with an officer in black and two I supposed snipers wearing all camo. Which is what I thought possibly someone was saying that they may have initial thought he was on the security team

 

[Ruminations]

This profile of the shooter began to emerge early in the discussion, thanks in large part to your posts. It seems from all the shooting deaths we fail to prevent, they can be identified only in retrospect.

How many young men like this are out there? Scary.

I am really sad for a number of things. Very innocent people were murdered or injured, and I'm not putting him ahead of them.

But the shooter seemed very much like a person on a good track, even if he was in pain enough to google a mental illness diagnosis. He did well in HS, well in his first two years of college, was continuing in his education while holding down a job that by all appearances he did well. Senior citizens have vulnerable immune systems, and his attention to detail in the kitchen was an asset, I bet.

If only a different family member took the gun that day, if only he had a migraine, if only he had a flat tire....his pain would have faded over the years as HS becomes less and less important and work places are generally far less harsh socially.

I can't imagine being his mother or father right now. I agree with many analyses that argue the "threat" should have been "neutralized" much sooner. Could you imagine the complexity of emotion when the threat turns out to be your own son, and you have to bury him, neutralized.

MOO