PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

[Luna20]

I addressed exactly this on Monday.
Article is from yesterday.

• Monday at 9:09 AM

What I don't get is Secret Service knows that the shooter is down but no one knows if there's a 2nd + shooter and they leave Trump standing there in the open for seconds after he says "let me get my shoe(s) and they get it.

Report

Secret Service criticized for how long it took to get Trump offstage

Some former law enforcement officials questioned why the agents allowed the injured former president to put on his shoes and pump his fist in the air.

www.nbcnews.com

I don’t get that either. While Trump was still on the platform in the huddle one of them said “shooter down”. It was a matter of seconds. How could he determine that there were no other shooters? You would have to be looking from an arial view to see if others were lurking around.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I was surprised by this too. After they got him stood up, the just stand there for quite a while. Trump being so tall, his head is exposed. I would have expected them to get him on his feet, have him crouch and then just hustle him right out of there. I haven't heard any former SS agents talk about this yet.

Trump may have been safer if they kept him down and piled on top of him?
I assume we'll find out shortly now that it's been addressed in the media when other SS/security agents chime in on what the proper security protocol should have been.

IMO:
It appears that they didn't want to refuse Trump's shoe request which they let override their pledge to protect him.
A totally incompetent and extremely dangerous decision made by all the SS surrounding Trump which easily could have led to his death.

 

[bestill]

They failed at the most basic level to start with. They are supposed to identify positions on paper with any organization’s that are present. Firefighters, etc.

The higher ground security should have been more than just 2 of them. That seems to be common sense to me. If both of the guys were taken down by TC, he would have had free range space. There would have been many more casualties. But one is too much.

It really is a miracle that there weren't more casualties and injuries. I am still stunned by what security didn't do and what they did do. I'm also shocked that SS director Cheatle hasn't been fired or resigned. A former president almost assassinated under her watch and another innocent man lost his life. Too many questions yet to be answered. This was not a sophisticated operation, the shooter just happened to encounter an ill prepared for event that should have never happened.

I am surprised that there isn't more outrage. This Secret Service is ripe with problems.

Recall secret service rental cars catching on fire and that hasn't been resolved that I am aware of -
Car Fire at Nantucket Airport Was in Vehicles Rented by Secret Service for Biden Visit

Cocaine discovered in the Oval Office area of the White House - SS never resolved who brought that in - Official Statement on the Investigation of a Substance Found in the White House | United States Secret Service

VP Harris security detail - https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ent-removed-from-harris-security-detail-after


I don't have much confidence in them nor their leadership.



All JMO

 

[Betty P]

I don’t get that either. While Trump was still on the platform in the huddle one of them said “shooter down”. It was a matter of seconds. How could he determine that there were no other shooters? You would have to be looking from an arial view to see if others were lurking around.

They have to move him as fast as possible to the black SUV. Any further gunshots have to be absorbed by the SS officers surrounding the POTUS. Once one shooter is down, they have to move as quickly as possible to get him to safety, putting their own lives at risk if there's a second shooter. Once he's in that black SUV, he's pretty safe and they can get him out. The whole point is to get him in the vehicle and out of the area ASAP.

He's a big guy, not easy to move and not easy to cover if he refuses to duck down. I recall from watching the replay that day, that he seemed to be resisting the SS agents who were trying to push him to the car. I could see they were struggling to get him moving once he was on his feet. He kept trying to turn to the cameras and wave/fist bump or whatever. That was slowing things down quite a bit. Once they got him to the black SUV, he resisted them again, standing up to wave or do some other gesture. IIRC, one of the agents finally just shoved him into the SUV. They really struggled. It's possible Trump was still in some kind of shock where he didn't fully understand the danger and kept fighting them and slowing down to wave. Same with the shoes. Presidents most likely receive instructions on what they have to do when the SS goes into action to get them out of a dangerous situation. Trump probably knew what he was supposed to do, but was probably in some sort of shock and not comprehending.

JMO

 

[Ladyotm]

By 3 p.m. on Saturday, roughly three hours before the shooting, Crooks was at the security screening area for the rally. He first aroused suspicion when he passed through the magnetometers carrying a rangefinder, which looks similar to a small pair of binoculars and is used by hunters and target shooters to measure distances when setting up a long-range shot, according to a senior law enforcement official briefed on the investigation.

The rangefinder would not have prevented Crooks from getting through the security screening point, but it did attract the attention of security personnel who kept an eye on him until he left the secure area.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/trump-shooter-requested-saturday-off-from-work/index.html

…

Did he use the rangefinder while in the secured area?

Just a ? about a rangefinder. Would someone perhaps use it in place of binoculars to view or watch something over time?

My number one thought , a larger security presence would have made the difference, yes he was spotted but when he left no one followed? because they had an assigned area in the hot zone so to say that could not be left? I would have expected snipers on multiple roofs/heights, found out that was not to be. More security was needed a larger presence. And that is how I feel the difference would have been made. JMO
I think that candidates should have a ss team, and that team should advise them of security needs , local communities should provide officers as needed and candidates should be responsible for hiring added protection if needed. However it gets muddled because MR. Trump is not just a candidate , he is a former president So I am still on the fence at who should be financially responsible for the extra protection.
regardless, more security would have made this turn out differently. This is just my opinion.

I believe once they are the "formal" candidate they receive SS protection. I wonder if they would have increased the number of agents assigned to him once he was formally declared the Republican candidate, or would they have felt the # in place were sufficient?

Being close to the military community (spouse and son are Army) I think complacency comes to mind. They train and train and train and one of the biggest risks I see is getting complacent. No accidents in xyz time so things feel "easy" or maybe mindless.. just going through the motions and it leads to people messing up even the simple things.

I agree!

I never looked into his personality, but he is not a coward. Also, his reaction was fast.

He did duck down quickly, he recognized what was happening quickly. I don't necessarily think postponing events to make sure security is a cowardly move. Its being cautious and smart. MOO. My opinion is ot meant to be taken that he is not cautious and not smart if he continues with events as planned.

 

[justtrish]

Just a ? about a rangefinder. Would someone perhaps use it in place of binoculars to view or watch something over time?

I believe once they are the "formal" candidate they receive SS protection. I wonder if they would have increased the number of agents assigned to him once he was formally declared the Republican candidate, or would they have felt the # in place were sufficient?

I agree!

He did duck down quickly, he recognized what was happening quickly. I don't necessarily think postponing events to make sure security is a cowardly move. Its being cautious and smart. MOO. My opinion is ot meant to be taken that he is not cautious and not smart if he continues with events as planned.

BBM - I was talking to my son about this and he said not really. He has one and he hunts a lot. He said his doesn't magnify anything. He can point it toward something like a tree and it will tell him how far that object is from him. He can then know how to set his bow. Then if a deer walks or stands close to that tree he knows how far and how his bow will shoot at that distance. If it's further away he said he knows to aim slightly up because the arrow will drop some over time past a certain distance. He also said he isn't sure exactly what the point would be for this shooter at that close of a distance with that rifle.

Perhaps some range finders do magnify things? He said his does not and it's really not needed as that isn't the purpsoe of a rangefinder.

 

[Izzylizzy]

They have to move him as fast as possible to the black SUV. Any further gunshots have to be absorbed by the SS officers surrounding the POTUS. Once one shooter is down, they have to move as quickly as possible to get him to safety, putting their own lives at risk if there's a second shooter. Once he's in that black SUV, he's pretty safe and they can get him out. The whole point is to get him in the vehicle and out of the area ASAP.

He's a big guy, not easy to move and not easy to cover if he refuses to duck down. I recall from watching the replay that day, that he seemed to be resisting the SS agents who were trying to push him to the car. I could see they were struggling to get him moving once he was on his feet. He kept trying to turn to the cameras and wave/fist bump or whatever. That was slowing things down quite a bit. Once they got him to the black SUV, he resisted them again, standing up to wave or do some other gesture. IIRC, one of the agents finally just shoved him into the SUV. They really struggled. It's possible Trump was still in some kind of shock where he didn't fully understand the danger and kept fighting them and slowing down to wave. Same with the shoes. Presidents most likely receive instructions on what they have to do when the SS goes into action to get them out of a dangerous situation. Trump probably knew what he was supposed to do, but was probably in some sort of shock and not comprehending.

JMO

The security issue is the SS and all security there that day did not know at that time if there was a 2nd or more shooters.
All they were told is "shooter down" which was TMC who shot at Trump and others.
I'm going with they should have kept Trump down until they were sure there were no other shooters.
He was still in full view when he got up and when he was getting into the SUV and did an arm/fist signal to his supporters.

 

[Betty P]

The security issue is the SS and all security there that day did not know at that time if there was a 2nd or more shooters.
All they were told is "shooter down" which was TMC who shot at Trump and others.

No and it likely wouldn't matter if there was another shooter. The most important goal was to get him to safety (the black SUV) while shielding him with their bodies ASAP. There were other agents at the black SUV who had been guarding it and knew it was safe, the driver ready to go, the engine running.

The greater risk was just laying there on the stage, not moving to safety. The open stage area is the least safe place to be. It's a matter of calculating the least relative risk and taking it. They're trained in all these scenarios.

When I saw the black SUV was close to the stage, I felt relieved. It's the safest place to be. I've seen it with the doors open a few times. It's a veritable fortress/tank with all kinds of protection, medical equipment, etc. They probably planned to get him into that first, then leave, fast. When all was ok, they would put him in the limo.

This is the POTUS Black SUV. Trumps was probably not quite as well armed, but it would be very secure

President's GMC Armored SUV

Dillon Aero 5.56 Mini-Gun GMC Armored SUV - President's escort protection.

www.military.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

No and it likely wouldn't matter if there was another shooter. The most important goal was to get him to safety (the black SUV) while shielding him with their bodies ASAP. There were other agents at the black SUV who had been guarding it and knew it was safe, the driver ready to go, the engine running.

The greater risk was just laying there on the stage, not moving to safety. The open stage area is the least safe place to be. It's a matter of calculating the least relative risk and taking it. They're trained in all these scenarios.

When I saw the black SUV was close to the stage, I felt relieved. It's the safest place to be. I've seen it with the doors open a few times. It's a veritable fortress/tank with all kinds of protection, medical equipment, etc. They probably planned to get him into that first, then leave, fast. When all was ok, they would put him in the limo.

Plenty of opportunities for a 2nd shooter to have shot at Trump when he stood up and getting into the SUV.
I'm still going with having kept him down if how he was existed off the stage was the SS idea of protecting him.

 

[Inthedetails]

"Thomas Matthew Crooks may have kept tabs on former President Donald Trump’s campaign appearance schedule for months leading up to Saturday’s deadly rally shooting, a source with knowledge of the investigation told The Post."

Trump rally shooter Thomas Crooks tracked ex-prez’s appearances for months: source

Thomas Matthew Crooks may have kept tabs on former President Donald Trump’s campaign appearance schedule for months leading up to Saturday’s deadly rally shooting, a source with knowled…

nypost.com

 

[Inthedetails]

More names of famous politicians he looked up. The names continue to fall across the political spectrum.

"Evidence collected from one of his phones has turned up photos of both Trump and President Biden, as well as several other notable figures, including House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) and former Republican New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani."

Trump rally shooter Thomas Crooks tracked ex-prez’s appearances for months: source

Thomas Matthew Crooks may have kept tabs on former President Donald Trump’s campaign appearance schedule for months leading up to Saturday’s deadly rally shooting, a source with knowled…

nypost.com

 

[Betty P]

Plenty of opportunities for a 2nd shooter to have shot at Trump when he stood up and getting into the SUV.
I'm still going with having kept him down if how he was existed off the stage was the SS idea of protecting him.

It's the SS call on how to get him to safety ASAP. If Trump were following the protocol, his head wouldn't have been visible. The agents kept trying to get him to crouch down so they could cover him, but he kept standing back up to wave at the crowd. He was putting himself in danger.

The best choice was to get him into that bulletproof, bomb-proof SUV, which is much safer than the open stage. It was the right move.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

That probably won't happen.

Jay Leno just had The Beast on his show, Jay Leno's Garage. It's the Presidential Limo. He wasn't even allowed inside it and the SS agents he interviewed were very generalized in what they told him about the limo.
One thing the SS doesn't want to do is unveil any of their tactics. They're probably upset at how much has already been revealed because of this incident.

It's a good watch if you're into cars:

I think by necessity not everything is TS/SCI since this is specifically about USSS's interactions with local LE, which all of the Butler Township PD wouldn't have such clearances, so there has to be some less classified working documents that are created when working with these local PDs. In particular I'm interested in an apparent map showing a star on the AGR grounds as there seems to be confusion between an AGR building and the AGR building complex. If documents about local LE coverage are highly classified, that itself would point to a problem inviting a breakdown in communication if everyone in a local LE is in the dark...it is possible that it is that way where the USSS basically just gave one-way orders without there being true coordination and as such would be a reason for these things to be declassified and review the classification process. It may turn out that the USSS was highly arrogant and opaque here, just basically shouting orders to local LE while plugging their ears to any two-way communication with local LE as there has apparently been pushback from local LE saying that they told USSS they didn't have the manpower for snipers and could only do traffic control but got no response back to this message.

 

[RANCH]

It's the SS call on how to get him to safety ASAP. If Trump were following the protocol, his head wouldn't have been visible. The agents kept trying to get him to crouch down so they could cover him, but he kept standing back up to wave at the crowd. He was putting himself in danger.

The best choice was to get him into that bulletproof, bomb-proof SUV, which is much safer than the open stage. It was the right move.

President Trump should have never been shot by this shooter let alone have to remember any kind "protocol" that the SS agents didn't seem to be in control of.

I place the blame solely on the SS and not President Trump. JMO.

 

[OddOneOut]

They have to move him as fast as possible to the black SUV. Any further gunshots have to be absorbed by the SS officers surrounding the POTUS. Once one shooter is down, they have to move as quickly as possible to get him to safety, putting their own lives at risk if there's a second shooter. Once he's in that black SUV, he's pretty safe and they can get him out. The whole point is to get him in the vehicle and out of the area ASAP.

He's a big guy, not easy to move and not easy to cover if he refuses to duck down. I recall from watching the replay that day, that he seemed to be resisting the SS agents who were trying to push him to the car. I could see they were struggling to get him moving once he was on his feet. He kept trying to turn to the cameras and wave/fist bump or whatever. That was slowing things down quite a bit. Once they got him to the black SUV, he resisted them again, standing up to wave or do some other gesture. IIRC, one of the agents finally just shoved him into the SUV. They really struggled. It's possible Trump was still in some kind of shock where he didn't fully understand the danger and kept fighting them and slowing down to wave. Same with the shoes. Presidents most likely receive instructions on what they have to do when the SS goes into action to get them out of a dangerous situation. Trump probably knew what he was supposed to do, but was probably in some sort of shock and not comprehending.

JMO

Just my opinion from my own experiences, getting up is much harder and slower as you age. All of my older friends tell me they do not get down on the floor anymore as they cannot get back up by themselves. He may not have been "resisting." He may have been moving slower because it was harder for him than those young and fit SS Agents. If they wanted to move faster, they could have tried taking some of his weight on themselves as it would have made him able to move faster. I agree he did slow it down a little by insisting on showing everyone he was o.k.

As far as the shoes are concerned, I've been having trouble with my feet hurting since I turned 50. Walking without shoes is harder and very painful. I can walk long distances without pain and less chance of falling with the right shoes. Unless you've been through it, it is hard to understand how difficult it is for some of us to walk without our shoes. Trump may have similar issues. Now why the SS agent pulled them off and threw them off the stage is something I don't understand.

 

[SouthAussie]

More names of famous politicians he looked up. The names continue to fall across the political spectrum.

"Evidence collected from one of his phones has turned up photos of both Trump and President Biden, as well as several other notable figures, including House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) and former Republican New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani."

Trump rally shooter Thomas Crooks tracked ex-prez’s appearances for months: source

Thomas Matthew Crooks may have kept tabs on former President Donald Trump’s campaign appearance schedule for months leading up to Saturday’s deadly rally shooting, a source with knowled…

nypost.com

It is sounding more and more as though the target would have been whoever was geographically closer (more convenient) to the shooter at the time he decided to stage his own final goodbye.

imo

 

[IDK]

President Trump should have never been shot by this shooter let alone have to remember any kind "protocol" that the SS agents didn't seem to be in control of.

I place the blame solely on the SS and not President Trump. JMO.

Agree that the blame belongs squarely on the Secret Sevice. Also some have made the point that by getting up and waving to the crowd, Trump showed them that he was ok and this kept the crowd from panicking. It could have been much worse if panic ensued and people were trampled on those bleachers. IMO.

 

[Knox]

Trump may have been safer if they kept him down and piled on top of him?
I assume we'll find out shortly now that it's been addressed in the media when other SS/security agents chime in on what the proper security protocol should have been.

IMO:
It appears that they didn't want to refuse Trump's shoe request which they let override their pledge to protect him.
A totally incompetent and extremely dangerous decision made by all the SS surrounding Trump which easily could have led to his death.

Trust me, plenty of former SS and State Department guys are chiming in, their video interviews just aren’t linkable.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

President Trump should have never been shot by this shooter let alone have to remember any kind "protocol" that the SS agents didn't seem to be in control of.

I place the blame solely on the SS and not President Trump. JMO.

Good faithed questions: should they have just forcibly rammed his head back down when he repeatedly stood up in defiance? Does Trump have zero responsibility for potentially putting himself at further risk by deliberately going against their actions and standing up to face the crowd in order to do his gestures?

The shooting never should have happened, yes. But he also defied the protocol during such a situation and put himself, and perhaps those agents, at further risk. That is on him, not them.

 

[GatorFL]

No and it likely wouldn't matter if there was another shooter. The most important goal was to get him to safety (the black SUV) while shielding him with their bodies ASAP. There were other agents at the black SUV who had been guarding it and knew it was safe, the driver ready to go, the engine running.

The greater risk was just laying there on the stage, not moving to safety. The open stage area is the least safe place to be. It's a matter of calculating the least relative risk and taking it. They're trained in all these scenarios.

When I saw the black SUV was close to the stage, I felt relieved. It's the safest place to be. I've seen it with the doors open a few times. It's a veritable fortress/tank with all kinds of protection, medical equipment, etc. They probably planned to get him into that first, then leave, fast. When all was ok, they would put him in the limo.

This is the POTUS Black SUV. Trumps was probably not quite as well armed, but it would be very secure

President's GMC Armored SUV

Dillon Aero 5.56 Mini-Gun GMC Armored SUV - President's escort protection.

www.military.com

Trump doesn't have the limo, just the SUV's. I've seen his motorcade several times on Southern Blvd in West Palm between his home and his plane.