PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

[Donswife48]

I think you would have climb the ladder on the water Tower. He was extremely intelligent, appears to have done a massive amount of research, I feel sure he had plan b.
Moo

How far was the water tower? It seems like it would be an extremely unlikely shot to make, but I don’t know. I’m grateful for all opinions, because I still can’t imagine a lone person doing this.

 

[SouthAussie]

How far was the water tower?

Very near the building from where Crooks fired.

How the ‘second shooter’ conspiracy theory spread after the Trump assassination attempt

The FBI says the gunman acted alone, and the Secret Service says there’s no evidence of a second shooter. That hasn’t stopped the speculation online.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Ghostwheel]

There are often competing events. There are two ongoing right now.


Much of the rest about security has been discussed. Shooters look for gaps.

Outdoor venues have more gaps. (No doors) I believe Trump's events have been indoors since.

Shooters simply go out with a gun, waiting for a gap? Its a theory.

What I would like to see is where each of this list would fit into odds. Indoor vs outdoor chances. (in theory there would be no way to get indoors without being scanned, but is this true?)
Counter Sniper or security on that particular roof vs no one on roof.
No visible security on roof vs hidden security on roof. (how would the assassin know there was no one in one of those windows? Can you see inside from below?)
If there had been more security (hadn't needed to divide it) would it have even mattered?
Was there any combination of things that tipped the scale? If there had been some kind of communication device that all the security ( local and SS) had access to and paid attention to, would that be a 70% chance it would have stopped it? If there had been someone looking out that window of the higher section, would that have been a 89% chance they could have stopped it? If there were someone on the roof, would that be a 95% chance it would have stopped it?

There are ways to get statistics on these things, but I am unfamiliar with how to do it. Maybe there isn't enough information in the public to do so yet. But someone should be figuring out if there was anything or combination of things that could have stopped the sequence of events. The answer might be as simple as "It was outdoors", except as we all know RFK was assassinated in the kitchen of his speech venue. So shortcuts and kitchens weren't a good idea either and he was told so and did it anyway.

Things only look like 100% safe if no one gets poisoned or shot at or killed, etc for the event. It doesn't mean they are safe and you can't learn something from what went wrong elsewhere. Quite honestly the most dangerous place seems to be between wherever you gave your speech and getting to the car.

 

[Missing Susan]

Is anyone a statistician? What are the chances that:
There was an outdoor event that just happened to be in a place/city/town where a person was willing to attempt an assassination?
And that the First Lady would just happen to need SS, dividing resources, on that exact same day an hour away at pretty much the last minute?
And that an obvious roof just happened to be outside of the security zone that had no security on it?
And that all security inside the higher roofed area just happened to leave their posts when the shooter was shooting?
And that the person who was willing to assassinate someone was able to get onto onto the roof without any security seeing/stopping him.
And that the person willing to assassinate someone could belly crawl the distance they did without the Counter sniper team facing that way seeing him at all? (might be tree line, but still, what are the odds)
And that there were no radios that managed to convey "Shooter on roof, get down" before the shooting started?

Was this person just prepared and looking to see if there was a hole in security and there was a gaping one in his face so he took a chance? What are the odds of that? I mean, I'd really like to know actual ones.

Hear hear. It was a perfect storm of evil machinations and systemic failure.

Another way to look at it: Is there a crooks at every rally waiting for a roof to go unposted?

 

[Friday Fan]

Shooters simply go out with a gun, waiting for a gap? Its a theory.

What I would like to see is where each of this list would fit into odds. Indoor vs outdoor chances. (in theory there would be no way to get indoors without being scanned, but is this true?)
Counter Sniper or security on that particular roof vs no one on roof.
No visible security on roof vs hidden security on roof. (how would the assassin know there was no one in one of those windows? Can you see inside from below?)
If there had been more security (hadn't needed to divide it) would it have even mattered?
Was there any combination of things that tipped the scale? If there had been some kind of communication device that all the security ( local and SS) had access to and paid attention to, would that be a 70% chance it would have stopped it? If there had been someone looking out that window of the higher section, would that have been a 89% chance they could have stopped it? If there were someone on the roof, would that be a 95% chance it would have stopped it?

There are ways to get statistics on these things, but I am unfamiliar with how to do it. Maybe there isn't enough information in the public to do so yet. But someone should be figuring out if there was anything or combination of things that could have stopped the sequence of events. The answer might be as simple as "It was outdoors", except as we all know RFK was assassinated in the kitchen of his speech venue. So shortcuts and kitchens weren't a good idea either and he was told so and did it anyway.

Things only look like 100% safe if no one gets poisoned or shot at or killed, etc for the event. It doesn't mean they are safe and you can't learn something from what went wrong elsewhere. Quite honestly the most dangerous place seems to be between wherever you gave your speech and getting to the car.

There is almost infinite access outdoors!!

Of course, if there was proper perimeter, then he could have been so far away that a bullet wouldn't have made it. But he was only 150 yards away with almost unlimited access.

 

[Friday Fan]

Another way to look at it: Is there a crooks at every rally waiting for a roof to go unposted?

Potentially. That's what they should plan for at least.

 

[Donswife48]

Very near the building from where Crooks fired.

View attachment 520314

How the ‘second shooter’ conspiracy theory spread after the Trump assassination attempt

The FBI says the gunman acted alone, and the Secret Service says there’s no evidence of a second shooter. That hasn’t stopped the speculation online.

www.nbcnews.com

I found a different picture of the water tower in relation to the stage and the rooftop TC shot from. You can see the legs of the tower behind the #3 photo. It appears that it is behind the stage which might not have given him a shot. The article also shows the roof, which was supposed to be unsafe. There are prominent ridges to the metal which wouldn't have been a safety hazard for the SS.

Video reveals chaotic scramble as Thomas Crooks fired at Donald Trump

Thomas Crooks, 20, launched eight rapid fire shots from his AR-15-style rifle at Donald Trump in under six seconds before snipers fired two counter shots, including the one that killed him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Very near the building from where Crooks fired.

View attachment 520314

How the ‘second shooter’ conspiracy theory spread after the Trump assassination attempt

The FBI says the gunman acted alone, and the Secret Service says there’s no evidence of a second shooter. That hasn’t stopped the speculation online.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Maumau1616]

This is what think happened:
Father bought firearm from a firearms dealer in 2013.
Purchase requires background check.
If gun is sold or gifted to family member, a background check is not required
Therefore the gun was traced to the father.


However, the investigation was just getting started when they said that he had borrowed the gun. Was this media "interpretation"..
Maybe the media just interpreted that the father was the owner?

When a gun is sold or gifted from a family member to another family member a background check is not required.

I think the main takeaway would be: The father wasn't looking for his gun, because the gun was no longer his.

MOO

Are you thinking TC wouldn't have passed a background check? I'd be surprised given he worked with vulnerable populations (in the nursing home). MOO

 

[Betty P]

Very near the building from where Crooks fired.

View attachment 520314

How the ‘second shooter’ conspiracy theory spread after the Trump assassination attempt

The FBI says the gunman acted alone, and the Secret Service says there’s no evidence of a second shooter. That hasn’t stopped the speculation online.

www.nbcnews.com

The ballistic evidence would tell them if there was a second shooter.

 

[Friday Fan]

Are you thinking TC wouldn't have passed a background check? I'd be surprised given he worked with vulnerable populations (in the nursing home). MOO

No.

Because firearms are expensive and it was cheap this way. I assume he sold it to him cheap.

Not having the background check is a side affect of a private sale.

 

[Donswife48]

The ballistic evidence would tell them if there was a second shooter.

South Aussie was replying to my request for how far was the water tower. Thank you South Aussie.

 

[Luna20]

House unanimously votes to create Trump assassination attempt commission

The House voted along bipartisan lines on Wednesday night to create a commission to investigate the attempted assassination of Donald Trump.

www.newzit.com

 

[Sundog]

In his testimony today before the House Judiciary Committee today, FBI Director Wray stated that there is an internal investigation underwaywithin the FBI regarding FBI personnel (one or two) who made inappropriate and outrageous comments about the attempted assassination of President Trump.

He seemed to want to make it clear that there is no room for political violence in the FBI and I hope they are holding the person accountable who cheered on the assassination of a U.S. president.

 

[nerosleuth]

So for now Trump will be having his rally events indoors rather than outdoors.

Does anyone think that the SS told Trump his safety couldn't be guaranteed if future outdoor rallies were held, or that a threat was made by an hostile foreign nation against Trump, or that the shooting incident at the rally has Trump all shook up over having an outdoor rally?

It will be interesting to see if other candidates running for the oval office will have any outdoor rallies.

 

[Sundog]

So for now Trump will be having his rally events indoors rather than outdoors.

Does anyone think that the SS told Trump his safety couldn't be guaranteed if future outdoor rallies were held, or that a threat was made by an hostile foreign nation against Trump, or that the shooting incident at the rally has Trump all shook up over having an outdoor rally?

It will be interesting to see if other candidates running for the oval office will have any outdoor rallies.

The job of the SS is to protect a U.S. president, former or current, and they have a no fail mission, so they wouldn't be telling him that they couldn't guarantee his protection at an outdoor rally. I think the SS discussed it and came to an agreement with President Trump's campaign that they would try to use indoor venues wherever possible and prioritize that when possible. At tonight's indoor rally, Trump expressed his concern that a lot of people couldn't get in to the venue and were outside and that limits the size of his rallies regarding those who want to attend. So it sounds like it was a compromise that the campaign will try to adhere to.

If there are other candidates running for office, and so far we only know of two (Harris and RFK,Jr.), it remains to be seen if they will draw tens of thousands of rally-goers to their events, so a smaller venue outside may be easier to secure, rather than the large events that the Trump campaign conducts regularly.

 

[Sundog]

So for now Trump will be having his rally events indoors rather than outdoors.

Does anyone think that the SS told Trump his safety couldn't be guaranteed if future outdoor rallies were held, or that a threat was made by an hostile foreign nation against Trump, or that the shooting incident at the rally has Trump all shook up over having an outdoor rally?

It will be interesting to see if other candidates running for the oval office will have any outdoor rallies.

It has already been announced that a credible, specific (versus general) threat has been made against President Trump by Iran, and that was known at the time of the Butler rally in PA.
According to FBI DIrector Wray, it is a concern that they are taking seriously, as they should.

 

[Betty P]

So for now Trump will be having his rally events indoors rather than outdoors.

Does anyone think that the SS told Trump his safety couldn't be guaranteed if future outdoor rallies were held, or that a threat was made by an hostile foreign nation against Trump, or that the shooting incident at the rally has Trump all shook up over having an outdoor rally?

It will be interesting to see if other candidates running for the oval office will have any outdoor rallies.

That’s a good choice made by Trump. I would do the same if I were in the shoes of any politician out on the campaign trail. Outdoor rallies, while fun, are always risky and unsafe. It’s just a fact. Perimeters are much more difficult to control.

Advanced military grade weapons are now easily obtained by the general public, putting security officers and LE at a disadvantage.

 

[layer]

Are you thinking TC wouldn't have passed a background check?

There are no federal requirements for background checks on gifts/private sales. Only 20 states require them, one of which is PA. However, family members are exempt. So...

 

[layer]

Advanced military grade weapons are now easily obtained by the general public, putting security officers and LE at a disadvantage.

Good thing the shooter just had an AR. If he'd had a .30-06 bolt action hunting rifle with a quality scope there would have been dead agents laying in Trump's remains. JMHO

 

[Friday Fan]

All but one of the assassinations and/or attempts with firearms in the past 100 years have been outdoors. McKinley was shot indoors, but that was over 100 years ago. Truman was staying at Blair House when a break in was attempted. A police officer was killed outdoors.

There was a strange plot against Carter by someone who carried a gun with blank rounds to one of his events. Charges against the man were dropped due to lack of evidence.

In other instances, the WH was shot at in 1994 and 2011.

There have also been numerous attempts via sent bombs, poison, vehicles etc. All were intercepted before they could occur.

There are lots of loony plots with people arrested, but many don't carry them out.

On November 1, 1950, Puerto Rican pro-independence activists Oscar Collazo and Griselio Torresola attempted to assassinate President Harry S. Truman at the Blair House during the renovation of the White House.[1][2] Both men were stopped before gaining entry to the house. Torresola mortally wounded White House Police officer Leslie Coffelt, who killed him in return fire. Secret Service agents wounded Collazo. Truman was upstairs in the house and not harmed.[3]

Attempts with firearms (not including firearms aimed at the WH)
Does not include events in foreign countries.

• FDR (1933) at a park. Mayor of Chicago was killed.
• Truman (1950) Attempted break-in.
• Kennedy (1963) Outdoors
• George Wallace (1972) Outdoors.
• Gerald Ford (Sep 5, 1975) and (Sep 22, 1975) Outdoors.
• Reagan (1981) Outdoors.

List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org