PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

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layer said:
I guess I'm still left feeling extremely uneasy. I only see two options here. Either there was some big conspiracy to leave Trump unguarded or even take him out, or... it's just that easy for a 20 yr old goofball to get a rifle in an elevated position close enough to take pot shots at the president. o_O
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Either option is possible.
Omo.
 
RANCH said:
The link to the Secret Service page works. The link on that page to the RNC gives me this.

Milwaukee County and City Portal

The requested page was not found. Please try searching:​

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I read the RNC plan less than three minutes before posting around 11pm. It appears Secret Service or Milwaukee removed the page within minutes of my posting. Must be a coincidence ;) I guess someone was working late.
Moo
 
Some good news.

Moon Township resident James Copenhaver, one of two area residents injured in the shooting at the July 13 Donald Trump rally in Butler County, has been released from the hospital.

A spokeswoman for Pittsburgh’s Allegheny General Hospital confirmed the 74-year-old man was released from the medical facility on Friday.

Marine veteran David Dutch, 57, of Plum, also injured at the rally, was discharged from the hospital on Wednesday.

triblive.com

2nd area man injured at Trump rally released from hospital

Moon Township resident James Copenhaver, one of two area residents injured in the shooting at the July 13 Donald Trump rally in Butler County, has been released from the hospital. A spokeswoman for Pittsburgh’s Allegheny General Hospital confirmed the 74-year-old man was released from the...
triblive.com triblive.com
 
RANCH said:
I'd like to know more about how the SS coordinates with local LE for security at these kinds of events.

Do they just hope that the local LE is equipped with the necessary training and tools to do the job?

It would make sense that they would look at each agency's abilities. If they determine that any of those are lacking in the ability to provide the needed security then bring in more Secret Service personnel to get the job done.

As for planning it should be the job of the Secret Service to do that and for them to make sure that all participants understand what that plan is. JMO.
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There is no evidence of poor planning by secret service. There is no reason to assume they did not completely make every aspect of it clear to all participants. I just don't see it coming out that secret service should have told other LE agencies to carry their keys to the buildings they are guarding! It just might come to pass that secret service did everything possible to secure this outdoor venue, but everything possible was not enough.

I am certain that quitting early, leaving posts, and forgetting to carry a key card are occurrences by partner LE agencies that were unplanned. As more and more information comes out, it becomes less and less likely that the gravest errors were by secret service. If any errors were committed by the secret service at all.

And nobody in any LE agency stockpiled explosives, bought ammunition, cased the venue to make a plan to shoot at Trump, then executed the plan, causing death and serious injuries. Sworn officers with a duty to protect should be held to a very high standard, but if they fall short it doesn't make committing a crime okay. The shooter still did what the shooter did.


MOO
 
Ruminations said:
There is no evidence of poor planning by secret service. There is no reason to assume they did not completely make every aspect of it clear to all participants. I just don't see it coming out that secret service should have told other LE agencies to carry their keys to the buildings they are guarding! It just might come to pass that secret service did everything possible to secure this outdoor venue, but everything possible was not enough.

I am certain that quitting early, leaving posts, and forgetting to carry a key card are occurrences by partner LE agencies that were unplanned. As more and more information comes out, it becomes less and less likely that the gravest errors were by secret service. If any errors were committed by the secret service at all.

And nobody in any LE agency stockpiled explosives, bought ammunition, cased the venue to make a plan to shoot at Trump, then executed the plan, causing death and serious injuries. Sworn officers with a duty to protect should be held to a very high standard, but if they fall short it doesn't make committing a crime okay. The shooter still did what the shooter did.


MOO
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The Secret Service did a poor job by looking at the evidence of people dead and injured at an event they were in charge of providing security.

JMO.
 
Reports are that 2 snipers in second floor of AGR building were absent. One left to search for suspicious person, the other had to leave when he couldn't re-enter the building. Several members of Congress have visited the site, and noted that this nest could have seen him and acted before any shots fired. Reports are that SS turned down local LE drone coverage, something else that could have spotted shooter early. No snipers or any observers were posted on the adjacent water tower, another location where the shooter could have been easily seen. Trump has reported they are going to go back and have another rally.
 
OhioSleuth43420 said:
Reports are that 2 snipers in second floor of AGR building were absent. One left to search for suspicious person, the other had to leave when he couldn't re-enter the building. Several members of Congress have visited the site, and noted that this nest could have seen him and acted before any shots fired. Reports are that SS turned down local LE drone coverage, something else that could have spotted shooter early. No snipers or any observers were posted on the adjacent water tower, another location where the shooter could have been easily seen. Trump has reported they are going to go back and have another rally.
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Let's hope the Secret Service get it right this time. Moo...
 
Simply Southern said:
How did you identify Beaver County in the video? According to the website they don't have a police department, unless I'm looking at the wrong website.
Moo
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Apologies, I signed off just prior to the thread closing and didn't sign back on until just a minute ago. I assume that the post:
shotgun09 said:
The entire interview with these SWAT team members will air on Monday. Interesting...
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would tend to indicate that the Beaver County SWAT was in charge of that and the adjacent rooftops; and the whole Butler-Allegheny-Beaver county who's-who will become clear from the interview tomorrow. In terms of what went wrong, they seem to have a pivotal role.
I established the three some that traveled to that roof from the inner perimeter were from Beaver from their uniforms, as were seen in the first couple minutes of the body cam video here:


starting around 50-seconds. Throughout they address each other by first names so the deduction was, the officer with the bodycam is part of same group. He also removes his backpack at one point and it appears to be the same as the others. JMO
 
RANCH said:
The Secret Service did a poor job by looking at the evidence of people dead and injured at an event they were in charge of providing security.

JMO.
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I'm upset, too, that there was death, critical injury, and an assination attempt that appears to have been missed by just a fraction of an inch.

But that does not mean secret service failed.

There is no evidence that they did not do something that they were supposed to do.

Let's play out this scenario: the secret service is 100% in charge of security, no matter the decision of the candidate. A candidate who is under secret service protection decides to come to my small town and use a former farm/fair grounds for a rally. A perimeter is established. My small local force, paid by my property tax bill, is in charge of the area outside of the perimeter, but is not equipped to stop an attack like the one on July 13.

Option 1: Secret service tells my local LE to get ready anyway. My tax dollars suddenly have to fund securing resources for additional trained SWAT staff. This day could blow the local budget, and price senior citizens out of their homes/prevent new buyers from affording to move in.

Option 2: Secret Service is given an unlimited force and will make up for the short comings of my local LE. My local LE is looking for ways to do more with less because property owners like me are strained paying property taxes. But secret service has an unlimited budget, and my local department smells those fat, federal dollars. My department furloughs any staff they can by contract. My department allows absences on the day of the event. My department milks everything it can out of secret service. My town supervisor boasts about how little the town spends when running for reelection. In the long term, Federal LE will be accumulating power and responsibility while local LE will be shrinking as this scenario repeats across the nation.

If the secret service has to provide more resources for unnecessarily risky events, it will grow the Federal budget and increase Federal influence. I am not taking the stand that this is a bad or good outcome, but it is the reality. If you don't hold the candidate responsible for making a decision about where to hold campaign events that the secret service believes will be secure in its current budget, you are advocating for a blank check-funded federal agency. If local LE can be compelled to provide what secret service seems is necessary, local budgets will be busted.

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
I'm upset, too, that there was death, critical injury, and an assination attempt that appears to have been missed by just a fraction of an inch.

But that does not mean secret service failed.

There is no evidence that they did not do something that they were supposed to do.

Let's play out this scenario: the secret service is 100% in charge of security, no matter the decision of the candidate. A candidate who is under secret service protection decides to come to my small town and use a former farm/fair grounds for a rally. A perimeter is established. My small local force, paid by my property tax bill, is in charge of the area outside of the perimeter, but is not equipped to stop an attack like the one on July 13.

Option 1: Secret service tells my local LE to get ready anyway. My tax dollars suddenly have to fund securing resources for additional trained SWAT staff. This day could blow the local budget, and price senior citizens out of their homes/prevent new buyers from affording to move in.

Option 2: Secret Service is given an unlimited force and will make up for the short comings of my local LE. My local LE is looking for ways to do more with less because property owners like me are strained paying property taxes. But secret service has an unlimited budget, and my local department smells those fat, federal dollars. My department furloughs any staff they can by contract. My department allows absences on the day of the event. My department milks everything it can out of secret service. My town supervisor boasts about how little the town spends when running for reelection. In the long term, Federal LE will be accumulating power and responsibility while local LE will be shrinking as this scenario repeats across the nation.

If the secret service has to provide more resources for unnecessarily risky events, it will grow the Federal budget and increase Federal influence. I am not taking the stand that this is a bad or good outcome, but it is the reality. If you don't hold the candidate responsible for making a decision about where to hold campaign events that the secret service believes will be secure in its current budget, you are advocating for a blank check-funded federal agency. If local LE can be compelled to provide what secret service seems is necessary, local budgets will be busted.

MOO
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The Secret Service needs to do it's job. If they can show they need more money to do that job properly then they should get it.

If the problem is found to be it's leadership then those doing a poor job need to be replaced with ones who will.

JMO.
 
Odeto BJ said:
Apologies, I signed off just prior to the thread closing and didn't sign back on until just a minute ago. I assume that the post:

would tend to indicate that the Beaver County SWAT was in charge of that and the adjacent rooftops; and the whole Butler-Allegheny-Beaver county who's-who will become clear from the interview tomorrow. In terms of what went wrong, they seem to have a pivotal role.
I established the three some that traveled to that roof from the inner perimeter were from Beaver from their uniforms, as were seen in the first couple minutes of the body cam video here:


starting around 50-seconds. Throughout they address each other by first names so the deduction was, the officer with the bodycam is part of same group. He also removes his backpack at one point and it appears to be the same as the others. JMO
Click to expand...

This is actually part of the problem with the USSS outsourcing such things, like for instance Beaver County SWAT does not exist. What Beaver County has, is the Emergency Services Unit, which is part of the Detective Bureau inside the Beaver County District Attorney's office (that's right the DA, not the Sheriff). Also it's not clear what exactly the ESU was responsible for, like there's a huge difference between being responsible for a perimeter versus being responsible for a roof.


What snipers do can vary widely along with local protocols and procedures in general and in fact local LE snipers don't have that as their full-time jobs, even with the LAPD where instead most of the time they are doing other things like being ordinary cops when not being specifically activated. The overall direction of the BCDB is to be investigative as the theme for those that are part of it:
The Chief of Detectives is responsible for carrying out the established policies of the District Attorney of Beaver County and to coordinate investigative efforts between the DA’s Office and the local, state and federal law enforcement agencies that operate in Beaver County as well as the Sheriff’s Office.
While specifically this is what the ESU does, which even includes CSI:
Detective Young is the Commander of the Beaver County Emergency Services Unit which is comprised of carefully selected municipal police officers, County Detectives and Sheriff’s Deputies. The ESU is a highly trained unit capable of responding to extraordinary events involving barricades, hostage rescue, active shooters, and high risk arrest or drug search warrants. The ESU responds at the request of the local police departments.
Detective Young also assists local police agencies in processing the scenes of serious crimes and in other areas of forensic science.
So the Beaver County ESU folks under their protocols with an overall theme of being investigative might have felt it was their duty to investigate TMC. This event wasn't a barricade or hostage rescue but when they saw TMC acting suspiciously they might have felt to treat it as active shooter-like/high risk arrest-like or at least being investigative as part of the District Attorney Detective Bureau mindset, especially if they were responsible for the perimeter. This is the first time I've seen a SWAT-type force arranged this way where to me it seems doubly unusual with it being ran by the District Attorney rather than the Sheriff and that it's classified as part of the Detective Bureau rather than it being part of police special operations, like LAPD SWAT is part of the LAPD special operations division...needless to say, it's reasonably foreseeable that Beaver County ESU and LAPD SWAT could respond very differently to the same situation even if their amount of training was the same as not all SWAT-type units are cookie cutter interchangeable.
 
sunflowermomma said:
MOO

I am confused how there is no damage to Trump's ear at all in the photos from yesterday's rally after one of the testimonies last week said he had a 2cm hole/wound in his ear.

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AP

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Holes/ puncture wounds close quickly. I've had experience with drain tubes after surgery. They leave a large hole that closes within several days.
Moo
 
Ruminations said:
I just don't see it coming out that secret service should have told other LE agencies to carry their keys to the buildings they are guarding!
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You don't see a problem with not being able to prevent a 20 yr old from climbing to an elevated position with a rifle 140 yards from the president and taking eight shots at him, killing and wounding whoever was in the way? This was a massive failure by the SS, and there is no way I would feel safe attending a political event now. If this kid can do this I shudder to think what a sane, skilled, well trained and financed international or domestic assassin could do. Heads need to roll.
 
sunflowermomma said:
I am confused how there is no damage to Trump's ear at all in the photos from yesterday's rally after one of the testimonies last week said he had a 2cm hole/wound in his ear.
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With all the troubling aspects in this assassination attempt/murder the extent of the damage to Trump's ear is your concern? Why is this significant? For the sake of argument let's concede Trump's ear was barely nicked - the only reason there was even blood is that the human head is inherently prone to be... bleedy. So what?
Help me out here.
 
RANCH said:
The Secret Service needs to do it's job. If they can show they need more money to do that job properly then they should get it.

If the problem is found to be it's leadership then those doing a poor job need to be replaced with ones who will.

JMO.
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Okay. It remains that there is no evidence that secret service made errors.

As for increasing their budget- that is largely determined on the House of Representatives, so if you are advocating for a larger budget, start with your US representative.

But remember, candidates are competing with one another, and will want the most attractive campaign events possible with as much contact with voters as possible. In addition, they want to attract as much free media as possible, so news-worthy events are ideal for campaigns- much cheaper and more organic than ads. You are saying that no matter the venue, the secret service staff should just size itself appropriately for it. I think, due to the competitive nature of campaigns, this will create a trend to riskier and riskier venues- as candidates will enjoy just expecting secret service to grow with their ideas. Why would candidate B use an expensive sports arena when candidate A is using a less expensive outdoor field on private property that is not designated as a destination for crowds? The higher risks are not an issue; candidate B can now expect a larger government security force for free.

Once again, there is no evidence that Secret Service erred on the day of the assassination.

MOO
 
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