PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

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Chimera said:
Thanks for the full video, @Cool Cats .

It's amazing that at about 1:50 and onward the LEO has to assemble his rifle.
Wouldn't it be part of their duties to come with rifles ready to confront or take out an armed unknown on that roof ?
Seems unprepared, imo.

The secret service bear the brunt of the blame as they would've been fully ready to confront TC and take him down before he was able to fire a shot.
At least in a competent situation.

Someone not with either group of LE or the SS and armed-- they had a responsibility to neutralize the threat.
If that had happened, maybe no one would've been injured and killed, and we wouldn't be here discussing this.
Omo.
Click to expand...

I am shaking my head over that police vehicle back seat footage of the LE officer having to assemble his rifle.

Just put it ready to fire in the trunk or lock box whatever. There is no time to assemble a rifle right smack dab in the middle of an active shooting.

I think everyone was complacent and 100% assumed nothing is going to happen and all of them were just doing the minimal, going through the motions. I think the SS devolved into that mind set.

2 Cents.
 
SpanishInquisition said:
It was literally not part of the local LE plan to use snipers in the event of a coordinated attack, assault on Trump or a lone gunman. The plan in case one of those things happened was to respond with either the Quick Reaction Force or Counter Assault Team. Snipers could be activated to snipe, but it wasn't part of the plan to snipe in response to any listed contingency happening...like it wasn't part of the plan to use snipers to respond to a lone gunman, which happened so it's not like any sniper failed to follow the plan in that contingency.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

Local LE snipers and Secret Service snipers aren't interchangeable. They have different duties and training, which can vary wildly. If the Secret Service actually thought an LAPD sniper, a Butler ESU sniper and a Secret Service sniper are all the same, that would be some seriously messed up thought by the Secret Service. If local LE was interchangeable with the Secret Service, there would be no point in having the Secret Service in the first place, so the Secret Service might as well be disbanded if that was true...which I don't think it is, especially when it comes to roles like snipers.
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It's a good thing the SS snipers were well trained, experienced and paying attention. The SS sniper took out the killer extremely fast and with great accuracy, without risk to public safety. It was over before local LE knew what was happening.
 
The SS only role at an event such as this is to protect the important figures, and protect all general public who are there, Period. It is not the role of the local LE departments. And especially if the local LE doesn't even have a way to communicate with the SS, except, apparently by texts relayed. This is a total failure of the SS, which the higher ups have admitted. Whether this is a fault of being short staffed, not taking every event seriously, or possibly a rouge agent with a dislike of Trump. I 100% blame the SS, and 0% blame the local LE. And I also believe that being indoors or outdoors wouldn't have made a difference. JMO, MOO
 
SpanishInquisition said:
Local LE snipers and Secret Service snipers aren't interchangeable. They have different duties and training, which can vary wildly. If the Secret Service actually thought an LAPD sniper, a Butler ESU sniper and a Secret Service sniper are all the same, that would be some seriously messed up thought by the Secret Service.
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I agree. There is a huge difference between a trained counter-sniper and a sniper (basically anyone with a gun and a target).
 
Sorry, there are several parts of the videos where two or more local LEOs while discussing events...make it clear local LEOs farther away are in disbelief that nearer (or shoulda been nearer) local LEOs didn't do enough.

The bodycam LEOs do seem top notch. Youtube has four different local LEO POVs (sorted by CamID)...

122109: Butler Township Sergeant, radio 1305, in command of half the Butler Township Patrolmen, see below

122110: Butler Township Patrolman 1, TC aimed at him

122125: Butler Township Patrolman 2, the one who breaks it to the "we got him" patrolman that the local snipers were inside, knows everybody whether Butler or other local agency

Officer Helmetcam: Quick Response Force, no nametag

 
zleuther said:
122117: Butler Township Sergeant 2

"I'd say this is a foul up. They were on the second floor inside."
Click to expand...
<snipped for focus>

Yes, but who stationed them there.

Senator Grassley has requested answers to many of these questions after seeing the Butler LE's video cams yesterday. He sent the SS a very detailed letter requesting lots of data and questions that need to be answered before Congress.
 

Senator Grassley writes to SS Interim Director Rowe (on Friday, August 9)

Local law enforcement dispute the angle of the picture that you provided during your testimony, stating that the picture you provided neither accurately depicts their line of sight and coverage area from their position in the building nor their physical placement within the building. Local law enforcement assert their true physical location was the following (photo 3). Further, Beaver County’s ESU team provided my office with pictures their counter sniper took on July 13 that shows their view and line of sight from the AGR building as well as a map their counter sniper used that day indicating the local counter sniper team’s assigned approximate coverage areas.

(Bolded and enlarged by me)

Note that the photos released with this letter by Senator Grassley call into question Interim Director Rowe's claim that the local snipers were assigned to a position with line of sight to the shooter's position. This is disputed by local LE who indicated that there was no line of sight from their ASSIGNED COVERAGE AREAS.

Grassley is requesting that Rowe provide a site diagram where all local and federal law enforcement counter snipers were positioned that day as well as their assigned coverage areas.

He also asks if the photographs and diagrams that Rowe provides actually conflict with SS records regarding how local snipers were supposed to be positioned and how the AGR building was supposed to be covered.

EBM
 
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Everybody on the planet has opened a window and looked out, before. It's not debatable how that works.

(in my case it's usually the driver's side window to try to see if I ran over anything again)
 
Sundog said:

Senator Grassley writes to SS Interim Director Rowe (on Friday, August 9)

Local law enforcement dispute the angle of the picture that you provided during your testimony, stating that the picture you provided neither accurately depicts their line of sight and coverage area from their position in the building nor their physical placement within the building. Local law enforcement assert their true physical location was the following (photo 3). Further, Beaver County’s ESU team provided my office with pictures their counter sniper took on July 13 that shows their view and line of sight from the AGR building as well as a map their counter sniper used that day indicating the local counter sniper team’s assigned approximate coverage areas.

(Bolded and enlarged by me)

Note that the photos released with this letter by Senator Grassley call into question Interim Director Rowe's claim that the local snipers were assigned to a position with line of sight to the shooter's position. This is disputed by local LE who indicated that there was no line of sight from their ASSIGNED COVERAGE AREAS.

Grassley is requesting that Rowe provide a site diagram where all local and federal law enforcement counter snipers were positioned that day as well as their assigned coverage areas.

He also asks if the photographs and diagrams that Rowe provides actually conflict with SS records regarding how local snipers were supposed to be positioned and how the AGR building was supposed to be covered.

EBM
Click to expand...

It's a very convoluted situation. 'Butler ESU' was in charge of that sector but 'Butler ESU' is basically a fictitious entity that doesn't really exist in the normal sense of a police force. 'Butler ESU' is made up of a patchwork of cops and sheriffs from various jurisdictions in Butler that can be summoned from their regular cop jobs rather than being an independent police force. 'Butler ESU' then apparently used mutual aid to summon 'Beaver ESU' (a similar patchwork from Beaver) with 'Beaver ESU' coming under the banner of 'Butler ESU.' The snipers in question were doing an irregular activity for them as this wasn't some hostage situation plus they were very disconnected from their normal organization (Originating PD->Beaver ESU->Butler ESU->Pennsylvania State Police (they'd have to call into command on certain things, which was PSP)->Secret Service).
 
There are around three different releases that relate to the assassination attempt against DJT along with three different detailed reports that can be downloaded. See the following page: Press Releases

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Preliminary Findings on Review of July 13, 2024 Assassination Attempt on Former President Trump

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov


www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Additional Preliminary Finding on Assassination Attempt of Former President Trump

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov


www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Timeline of Law Enforcement Tracking Trump Shooter on July 13, 2024

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

 
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newclues said:
There are around three different releases that relate to the assassination attempt against DJT along with three different detailed reports that can be downloaded. See the following page: Press Releases

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Preliminary Findings on Review of July 13, 2024 Assassination Attempt on Former President Trump

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov


www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Additional Preliminary Finding on Assassination Attempt of Former President Trump

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov


www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Sen. Johnson Releases Timeline of Law Enforcement Tracking Trump Shooter on July 13, 2024

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

Click to expand...

I'm going to wait until the official report is released. That's probably going to take a while.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Not sure what isn't clear about Tricia's earlier post.

www.websleuths.com

PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

this map confuses me where is the building Crooks was on? The red triangle, labeled "Beaver Sniper Line of Sight" points to where the map maker thought he was laying. (Not sure about that title ... The shooter's surname is Crooks and the city is Butler.) But alrighty then ! However in one of...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

The ONLY Ostroff video approved is the one Tricia referred to in her post. There is NO blanket approval for other random videos.
 
zleuther said:
@SpanishInquisition ...aka Multiagency SWAT, all over the world. FWIW cam 122125: Butler Township Patrolman 2, probably has expertise in instruction across all local agencies.
Click to expand...

This event was distinctly not multiagency SWAT and radio communications weren't allowed with the agency that was in charge. Butler ESU is multiagency SWAT, but they weren't in charge of the event and Beaver ESU was itself further removed. The multiagency SWAT teams had to report it to PSP who would then at their discretion further pass it on to the Secret Service. If this was a normal situation in Butler or Beaver County one of the ESUs would be in charge of their multiagency SWAT and if necessary call the sister ESU for mutual aid, not being one or more levels removed from the agency that was ultimately in charge of an irregular type of event who doesn't communicate with you and you can't communicate with them. A Secret Service sniper is directly working for the agency in charge of VIP protection where that's what they do for a living is being a sniper for VIP protection, while a Beaver ESU cop is four levels removed from the Secret Service and is normally a regular cop doing regular cop things, not VIP sniper protection.
 
122117: Butler Township Sergeant 2

"I'd say this is a foul up. They were on the second floor inside."

WFAA is a television station licensed to Dallas, Texas, United States, serving the Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex as an affiliate of ABC...

[context and hat tip to @Sundog who quoted of my deleted post]
 
zleuther said:
Everybody on the planet has opened a window and looked out, before. It's not debatable how that works.

(in my case it's usually the driver's side window to try to see if I ran over anything again)
Click to expand...
Sure, but not all windows can be opened by anyone. Many buildings are built with windows that are just glass. The only way to open them is to break them. Three large windows of my house were made that way. I resolved the problem by taping them up before I threw a hammer into them.

Does the window of the AGR building where the snipers were open? Do you have a picture of it open?
 
old @zleuther, the one a couple windows down, is open (below "V" as in View).

And try to remember they looked down at an equivalent angle to observe TC sitting on the ledge right below the window (vertical instead of horizontal angle).

ETA: Can I understand something please? Suppose TC is sitting on the ledge exactly as we know he did, then he's sitting on the ledge with an AR-15. What would we hope the snipers would do???!!!
 
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zleuther said:
old @zleuther, the one a couple windows down, is open (below "V" as in View).

And try to remember they looked down at an equivalent angle to observe TC sitting on the ledge right below the window (vertical instead of horizontal angle).

ETA: Can I understand something please? Suppose TC is sitting on the ledge exactly as we know he did, then he's sitting on the ledge with an AR-15. What would we hope the snipers would do???!!!
Click to expand...

zleuther said:
Everybody on the planet has opened a window and looked out, before. It's not debatable how that works.

(in my case it's usually the driver's side window to try to see if I ran over anything again)
Click to expand...

zleuther said:
@SpanishInquisition ...aka Multiagency SWAT, all over the world. FWIW cam 122125: Butler Township Patrolman 2, probably has expertise in instruction across all local agencies.
Click to expand...

@zleuther please reply with the quoted post because we don’t know what the context is. You contribute good information and I’d like to follow it. Thank you!
 
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