PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

[layer]

The gun had a collapsible stock.

That only reduces the overall length from 37" to 33".
In a 22" backpack.

 

[Betty P]

That only reduces the overall length from 37" to 33".
In a 22" backpack.

Is there a link for those measurements? TIA

 

[zleuther]

Backpack dimensions are 22 x 12.76 x 9.8 pack = 27.25 rod length using all of x,y,z instead of just all of 22. Or to put it another way what we see as 22 inches in the photo of the pack can actually conceal, say, a straight tape measure from the hardware section of Target LOL that is extended another 5-1/4 inches.

P.S. the AR-15 tends to be carried in 2 pieces which has nothing to do with adjusting the 4-inch travel of the buttstock.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/butler-investigation-photos

 

[Mica]

That only reduces the overall length from 37" to 33".
In a 22" backpack

[…]

The second photo from the FBI shows Crooks' disassembled rifle, pictured alongside a backpack he was seen wearing at the site of Trump's rally. FBI Director Chris Wray told House lawmakers last month that Crooks' gun had a collapsible stock, which he said could explain why rally attendees didn't see him with it.

[…]

FBI releases new photos and details of Trump shooting probe, finding gunman had "mixture of ideologies"

The FBI released four photos showing the shooter's gun, his backpack, explosive devices found in his car and the air conditioning unit he used to access the roof.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[LadyL]

[…]

The second photo from the FBI shows Crooks' disassembled rifle, pictured alongside a backpack he was seen wearing at the site of Trump's rally. FBI Director Chris Wray told House lawmakers last month that Crooks' gun had a collapsible stock, which he said could explain why rally attendees didn't see him with it.

[…]

FBI releases new photos and details of Trump shooting probe, finding gunman had "mixture of ideologies"

The FBI released four photos showing the shooter's gun, his backpack, explosive devices found in his car and the air conditioning unit he used to access the roof.

www.cbsnews.com

so it looks like it would still stick out a little bit at the top? or maybe if on an angle would fit corner to corner ...

 

[layer]

Is there a link for those measurements? TIA

There's a ruler provided by the FBI under the firearm. And the measurements for a basic AR upper (Aero in this case) with a 16" barrel & standard flash supressor are pretty consistently 24.25" to 25". And none of the photos I've seen show the magazine. Obviously he had at least one. And the range finder, phone, probably had water. And that remote detonator. That's a lot of kit for that little bag.
I'm just wondering if the rifle had already been stashed on the roof before the crowds arrived. Maybe when he was out there flying the drone.

 

[zleuther]

Major questions post-crime...

1. Is the shooter dead?
2. Are the shooter and the (Sniper Nicol photo of) suspicious man THE SAME PERSON?
3. Might there be more? (answer to previous yes or no changes the probability here from about 5% to 99% !!!)

We all know the quickest post-crime method of answering 2 is to ask Sniper Nicol to photograph the dead shooter there on the roof. Imagine me on the radio to Sniper Nicol within a minute of the crime...

zleuther: Get a photo right now.

Sniper Nicol: Where should I take it from?

zleuther: The same window as the other photo.

[silence]

[more silence]

zleuther: You're not there? Where are you?

[more silence]

zleuther: Look, it doesn't matter where you are, just please get me a photo as quick as possible. The cop who boosted up to the roofline obviously couldn't get a photo. We don't have anybody on the roof yet to take a photo. Use anywhere on the second floor to take a photo. Yikes, do you not understand WE NEED TO KNOW RIGHT NOW if it's not the same man???!!!

[more silence]

Adult-content dashcam from the Butler Eagle newspaper's channel, cue to 6:47 (= 18:13:22 EDT)

https://youtu.be/WTHVXWyK-mM?t=407

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Major questions post-crime...

1. Is the shooter dead?
2. Are the shooter and the (Sniper Nicol photo of) suspicious man THE SAME PERSON?
3. Might there be more? (answer to previous yes or no changes the probability here from about 5% to 99% !!!)

We all know the quickest post-crime method of answering 2 is to ask Sniper Nicol to photograph the dead shooter there on the roof. Imagine me on the radio to Sniper Nicol within a minute of the crime...

zleuther: Get a photo right now.

Sniper Nicol: Where should I take it from?

zleuther: The same window as the other photo.

[silence]

[more silence]

zleuther: You're not there? Where are you?

[more silence]

zleuther: Look, it doesn't matter where you are, just please get me a photo as quick as possible. The cop who boosted up to the roofline obviously couldn't get a photo. We don't have anybody on the roof yet to take a photo. Use anywhere on the second floor to take a photo. Yikes, do you not understand WE NEED TO KNOW RIGHT NOW if it's not the same man???!!!

[more silence]

Adult-content dashcam from the Butler Eagle newspaper's channel, cue to 6:47 (= 18:13:22 EDT)

https://youtu.be/WTHVXWyK-mM?t=407

I don’t know if I missed an earlier post but I can’t make heads or tails of this. The adult-dashcam frame went to YouTube but nothing specific.

Might you give us more context?

 

[zleuther]

zleuther wins again! 27 days ago I said there's more to the story.

It's why I keep wondering about the local sniper who left early. (Do note that everybody local was aware in advance that he wouldn't be staying.)
4:26 p.m.: He finishes his shift and departs the AGR building. While exiting, he spots Crooks at a picnic table outside and alerts the remaining Beaver and Butler snipers in the AGR building to Crooks’ presence, "Someone followed our lead and snuck in and parked by our cars just so you know. I'm just letting you know because you see me go out with my rifle so he knows you guys are up there he’s sitting at a picnic table about 50 yards from the exit."
(Senator Chuck Grassley)

I think there's more to the story, but for today's thought I'll take it at face value.

Follow the Grassley link above, please. His spokeswoman didn't change the date, but Tuesday she changed the info. She edited Crooks outta the paragraph I had copied exactly, added "Source interviews indicate the [picnic table] individual departed shortly thereafter and was never identified", and added the correction at the bottom, "Initial findings, based on multiple representations from Beaver County law enforcement explaining their text messages from July 13, identified the individual seen at 4:26 p.m. as Thomas Crooks, due to an alleged similar visual appearance. Additional findings and subsequent source interviews indicate this was an unknown individual who was considered suspicious by Beaver County law enforcement. Changes have since been made based on the additional findings, an updated FBI timeline and subsequent source interviews."

tl/dr
It's taken 51 days after the crime to correct the timeline, and zleuther thinks it's still prolly wrong LOL...

 

[Luna20]

Secret Service didn't properly train HSI agents to secure Trump rally, whistleblower claims

Whistleblower allegations provided to Republican Sen Josh Hawley, R-Mo , contend that improperly trained federal agents partnered with the U S Secret Service to provide security at the July 13 rally

www.christianpost.com

 

[Luna20]

Sniper Nicol exits AGR at 18:13:22 EDT
walks north
walks south
stands out of frame at AGR corner
tries and fails to enter AGR at 18:15:00
seems determined to enter AGR before others at 18:15:28

Rallygoers have video of him at the corner...well, there and everywhere else he's generally not doing anything. Or to be clear, he's definitely not doing things many others are doing (trying to radio info, trying to ascend to the roof, inspecting and cautiously passing windows, and/or traveling to an area they'd be more useful like SWATs hurrying from the barn area to AGR).

A link?

 

[zleuther]

The adult-dashcam frame went to YouTube but nothing specific.

Might you give us more context?

Look how...

https://youtu.be/WTHVXWyK-mM?t=407

...shows BCESU Sniper Nicol seeming to do right after the crime, what the After Action Report states that he did right before the crime.

Please reply if you can't find Sniper Nicol LOL. "Sniper Nicol, where are you?"...well, I think he hears that on a regular basis...

Sen. Johnson Releases Preliminary Findings on Review of July 13, 2024 Assassination Attempt on Former President Trump

www.ronjohnson.senate.gov

https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/services/files/4E6577F1-8AD2-4CB9-9FC7-5896C27A9647

6:06-6:12pm—AGR sniper 1 goes to ground floor of the building to meet local law
enforcement patrol to alert them to Crooks presence.

Page 13...

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

...and Page 6...

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

18:06 – 18:12: [BCESU Sniper] goes downstairs of building 1 to meet patrol to let them know suspect is around building on side of fairgrounds

Thank you for asking for followup on a post of mine. This being a discussion forum and all, me and others sometimes present facts but withhold our opinions and takeaways until the sleuthier folks have a chance to review and comment. It's the best way to brainstorm, maybe you understand.

Not to get too far into the weeds, but it also helps to place oneself IN THAT MOMENT. What would you do? In order to do that, you have to disregard the info that re that moment woulda been in the future.

 

[zleuther]

Source of above youtube is the local newspaper The Butler Eagle. The Butler Eagle has a youtube channel...

Butler Eagle

Butler County's great daily newspaper. The Butler Eagle is a local, family-owned newspaper running out of Butler, Pennsylvania. We are a daily morning paper that focuses on the local news that affects our readers.

www.youtube.com

The channel has all 12 of the MP4 files that the Butler Township Police Department (BTPD) made available in response to media FOIAs. Here's the DropBox that Butler Township Police Lieutenant Matthew Pearson created to do that...

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[zleuther]

Butler Eagle

Butler County's great daily newspaper. The Butler Eagle is a local, family-owned newspaper running out of Butler, Pennsylvania. We are a daily morning paper that focuses on the local news that affects our readers.

www.youtube.com

...titles are "Trump Rally Body Cam Footage - Video n"...with n like so...

n    ID        start       end
1    122117    18:21:53    18:55:23
2    122111    18:04:09    18:30:59
3    122110    18:00:00    18:26:00
4    016197    18:58:19    19:23:14
5    122104    18:09:01    18:30:57
6    122097    19:18:10    19:22:31
7    122125    18:12:14    18:33:53
8    122111    18:58:49    19:09:51
9    122109    18:15:07    18:25:43
10   122104    19:07:34    19:09:39
11   010482    18:06:34    20:06:37
12   122117    19:00:00    19:13:49

...and the IDs that begin with zero are the dashcams associated with bodycams 122111 and 122110, respectively.