Identified! PA - Berks Co., 2 WhtFems, photos in hangar, 1968-69 - Martha & Sandra Stiver

[:+:MrTT:+:]

The way they're explaining it on case file, they seem to imply that the girls on the picture could have info to identify the two Jane Doe. Maybe the link is that the two deceased had things that linked them to Expo 67 as well. It pretty much seems to be the key to this case. Then again, maybe not. Hard to say at this point.

This was my understanding. The photo of the two girls were found in the hanger where a Jane Doe was found. They wanted to ID the girls in the photo to see if they were still around to ask how there picture ended up in the hanger under the impression if they ID them and could ask they may be able to tell them when and why they were there, and whom else were there at the time. And they were not trying to ID the girls because they were in fact the two Jane does.
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[:+:MrTT:+:]

I think the chin and the jaw line between Ms Tillnghast and the Jane Doe photo arent really lining up for me, but it could be the angle of the pictures of course.

I think Jane Doe has a square face...thoughts?

Yes, I agree about the chin line and the roundness of the face.
But the black and white photo could be misleading as far as the overall shape of the face. I am not comparing a possible Jane doe match, but a possible match to the girl in the photo. The picture on the right shows her in a turtleneck sweater and bangs. And the girl in the photo looks to be wearing a turtleneck sweater with bangs.

They could be sisters or other connection based upon the resemblance.
But then again, it could be just a coincidence concerning the resemblance.
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[CCJD]

In an article in The Daily Courier date 12/2/1970 (when LE first released the photos of the girls), it said that a shoe clerk identified the girls in the photos as two girls he'd sold identical pairs of size 8 sandals...sandals similar to those found with the dead girls.

I take that to mean that LE is/was looking at the girls in the photos as being the victims.
JMO

http://newspaperarchive.com/the-daily-courier/1970-12-02/pageno-33152237

 

[ebfortin]

The Pagans were a motorcycle gang in and around PA. I saw them in Erie around 1967 or 1968. The Hell's Angels were also around PA, but not originating from there.

Recent article stating Hell's Angels are involved in sex slavery with runaway young girls. It would make sense for them to recruit and have the girls "work" as far away as possible from their home. Ideally even in another country.

 

[ebfortin]

Possible match : pennsylvaniamissing.com/stivergirls.html

 

[ebfortin]

Montreal Gazette extensive library of past editions. An article could have been written on their disappearance if indeed they come from Montreal. I would start at the end of April 1967 since it is then that Expo 67 started and we know at last one of the girl had time to go there before it happened.

news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Fr8DH2VBP9sC

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I believe but not 100 percent certain the girl is standing in front of a billboard called Telephone Association
of Canada Pavilion.​

 

[CCJD]

a similar photo from ebay, says from a photo booth (bidding has stopped so this is a cached version of the page)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayIS...e2TypXx9ex8%3D&viewitem=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

a similar photo from ebay, says from a photo booth (bidding has stopped so this is a cached version of the page)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayIS...e2TypXx9ex8%3D&viewitem=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

That is it. I cannot paste a photo of it here. But that is the background​

 

[CCJD]

I can post it but didn't really want to put out the entire pic and violate any copyrights, tos, etc., so I cropped off all but the top of his head:

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I can post it but didn't really want to put out the entire pic and violate any copyrights, tos, etc., so I cropped off all but the top of his head:

That is it. Thank you very much for posting the picture for comparison.

And now wondering how the photo got from Canada to the Hanger?
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[believe09]

I think LE believes the girls in the photos are the vics as well. I love that you guys found another photo from the photo booth :bow:.

 

[believe09]

I wonder if it is worth putting the snap shots on Craigslist or City-Data to see if anyone can shed some light on the photo booth and perhaps the women?

 

[ebfortin]

I've just put the picture on Craigslist Montreal. We'll see what happen.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I think LE believes the girls in the photos are the vics as well. I love that you guys found another photo from the photo booth :bow:.

Not knowing for sure is causing problems.
Its stated

Estimated Age: initial estimate was that she was 15-20 years old, however, when doctors examined calcium formations in the bone joints, it was decided that she may have been as old as 30.

Neither one of the girls in the photos look to be around 30 but much younger.

Either the girl at the expo took the photo to the hanger or someone else she was with took it to the hanger. The Jane's were found in 68 69 with August 68 being around the time they were murdered. I don't think she would carry around that photo for a year or so.

She looks like a foreign exchange student perhaps french or Italian.

 

[ebfortin]

Not knowing for sure is causing problems.
Its stated

She looks like a foreign exchange student perhaps french or Italian.

Well Montreal is in Quebec, the French province of Canada.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Well Montreal is in Quebec, the French province of Canada.

If the girl in the expo photo is one of the JDs and she was found in the states i was thinking she was staying with a family in Pennsylvania and maybe traveled back home to Canada to attend the expo or if she was from France maybe she attended the expo to visit the french pavilion. But then again, if that was the case the family she was staying with in the states would have reported her missing or would have recognize the photo when released and would have reported it. So probably not valid.

If she is not one of the JDs and they are just trying to ID her in the photo to see if she is still around today she ended up in the states at some time and her photo was found with the other photo in the hanger.

If she is a JD and was killed after returning to the states, I would say she didn't live long after wards since they found the photo in 69. She ended up in that hanger not long after returning home to loose the photo. The photo of the girl at the expo shows signs of being faded. Might have been in that hanger for quite sometime before being found. maybe a year or more.

I believe but not certain, they found the photos after finding the 69 Jane Doe and not before. This hanger how close to the dropping sites was it.
The two were found within 3 and a half miles or so of each other. What was the distance to the hanger in relation with the remains.

The one girl found in 68 was found within a few days of her murder.
The other found in 69 and both were said to have a death date of august 68. Killed around if not at the same time, one found soon after and the other a year or so later. And the photo was found in 69.

Just not enough information on the crime scene, hanger etc.

Does anyone know whom is in-charge of this cold case. A detective we can summit questions to?
We could use a detective here to help us with missing pieces to this puzzle.

 

[believe09]

Well, if there was a witness who put the girls together buying the shoes that seem to appear at both crime scenes, I think it is reasonable to assume they are the women in the photos and traveling together.

My Dad always said that the easiest way to guess the age of a woman was by her hands, not her face lol. Hands dont lie, but faces can resist aging especially in the early 30's or slightly younger.

I wish they had DNA-they would be able to tell if they were related.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Can anyone find out without going to much trouble.
If the motorcycle club that was mentioned were named

Warlocks Motorcycle Club?

I have a missing persons report from 71 involving female
from Philadelphia and the Warlocks Club.
But do not want to post as having a possible connection
until I find out the name of the club in question.
Thank you in advance if anyone knows the answer.
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[KarlK]

The very particular thing for me is that one of the picture was made in front of a "Expo 67" logo and title. Probably nobody here know what Expo 67 is. It was a World Fair organized in Montreal / Canada in 1967. But this photograph was found in Pennsylvania! And according to the case file on Doe Network, it could be linked with criminalized bike gangs, which are known to have connections between each other all over America. I'm pretty sure nobody made the connection to Expo 67 in Montreal yet. So a couple of things I'm thinking about:

1) The girl in the picture can be a person from Montreal that went missing between 1967 and 1969. This can be investigated.
2) What bikers gangs from Pennsylvania have links with gangs in Montreal? This has probably been documented somewhere.
3) Why is that these two girls are thought to have a connection with the victim? From the case file it's not so clear.

This has been discussed here before.

People my age and older who lived in the Northeast know quite well what Expo 67 was and won't find surprising at all that a "passport" from that event would end up in Pennsylvania. It makes sense once people realize that Expo 67 was the most successful World Fair ever with 70 million visitors and was a huge tourist magnet that drew people in from all over the Northeastern US and beyond who drove up the just-opened I-87 that happened to lead directly to Montreal. When my parents took me there that summer I was 4 years old and I still remember it quite clearly.

Unfortunately and in the light of this, the fact that a girl (presumably) from Pennsylvania carried an Expo souvenir is not that significant, once taken into context. Personally I still have that passport and so do my parents, and many friends and relatives from all over the mid-atlantic states. That explains why LE did not pay it any special attention, perhaps even some of the cops on the case had a such a passport themselves, or at least certainly had seen one with that familiar logo (which starting in the mid-60's had been displayed all over the place on billboards, TV, magazines, etc). In any case they did not consider it an indication of any specific link to the city of Montreal because they had no reason to. When such a massive number of people attend an event the laws of probabilities tell us that some are bound to be victims of crime later in life, it's just statistics.

That is not to say there is no merit in discussing the possibility of a Montreal connection, taking into account that Montreal is the seat of the Canadian branch of the Mafia and its families are closely -and notoriously- related to those ruling in New York City. But this should not be done based on a piece of evidence that was a common sight in the US following Expo 67. Jeez just mentioning the Expo brings back childhood memories of wonderment that I have never experienced since, not even at Disneyland and Disney World. The site was huge and filled with never-seen-before rides -the vast majority of which I was too young to be allowed on dangit- and exhibits that appeared to have been designed by aliens, such as the Disney castle inside that huge dome the futuristic monorail ran through, and this was years before Epcot came to be.