PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[milopedes]

I have always felt that this murder was motivated by uncontrollable desires/emotions of the perp. I think the scenario described by you milopedes is probably what happened. The only part that really throws me is this - if it was sexual why stab her?

I can see this attack being done out of anger - anger towards women - or anger towards authority - the university or something of that nature. Almost an "I'll show them mentality".

I think often times, for the type of guy I see think committied this crime, the sex and violence are intertwined. It could have been anger toward women as well.

Either way, you raise a lot of good points. Of course, we are simply left to speculate unless new facts come to light.

I haven't had time to research any of this, but there are several factors I'd like some "professional" (i.e., retired detective, profiler, etc.) to give me some details about . . .

1. Psychology of the "one-stab", if such information is out there. More than likely, there is something out there on "stab versus shoot".

2. It has been awhile, but I'd like to read up more on the "blitz" attack. Besty was suddenly, and violently, attacked with this knife. I know some, but have not read much in awhile as I am slowly getting back into this as a hobby (sick, huh?) if you will.

I'm more prone to believe that a rageful attacker would do more than simply stab once, despite the sheer amount of force I think was required, and then leave the scene. Hence, I think it was more sexual in nature.

Pure conjecture here, but maybe he was sexually frustrated or was reminded some person from his past that had some "sexual meaning" to him?

 

[cbcrime]

A profiler looking at this case would be great. Because it might just give direction. There are parts of this case that right now can be read multiple ways. The only thought I had about the one stab wound was this - if once he did the one stab - she fell knocking over the books and that startled him and he left. That is possible - but it is also possible he only intended to stab once. That is the frustration.

I hope that the lastest investigator has considered someone looking at this case with experience and knowledge to read crime scenes.

 

[milopedes]

Well, I have 2 schools of thought on this. The first is one is that I think someone could have been following Betsy. Maybe not stalking her per se, but quietly pursuing her. If that's the case, it could have very well been a student. But my second theory is that perhaps this was a thrill kill and the perp didn't even know Betsy. In that event, it could have been someone who wasn't a student, someone who just hung around the campus at different times. In the early 70s, I had a lot of friends who went to Ohio State. I didn't go there but I was on campus a lot. It was easy back then for anyone to gain access to a campus. All you had to do was just walk around and act like you knew where you were going if you wanted to blend in. No one ever gave it a second thought and security wasn't really an issue then. Maybe I was thinking of my own days of hanging around OSU and the thought came to me that whoever did this to Betsy didn't necessarily have to be a student.

I only came up with a possible Michigan connection because I thought maybe someone held a grudge against her from U of M. In trying to come up with theories in this case, mine go from halfway believable to ridiculous, with the Michigan theory definitely the latter!

But when I think about who would do this to someone like Betsy, who reportedly was just short of being a saint, I can only come up with 2 logical answers, the first one being that someone was secretly obsessed with her and the second being that it was thrill kill, with no personal connection at all.

Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts!

I still feel the MI and "thrill kill" angles hold less merit. I'm not denying there wasn't a level of thrill, or a "high", for the killer. As I said in my last post, it has been awhile since I had researched any of this, so I'd have to read more about those types of crimes and the people who generally commit them.

You say something about the killer "quietly pursuing her", and honestly, it makes me wonder who else - student or non-student - may have seen her and targeted her. That scenario works with what I described a few posts ago. I'm not saying what I wrote is correct, I was just trying to examine the facts logically and develop a scenario.

The evidence does not seem to lean toward the behavior of a typcial stalker, but that does not mean it didn't happen the way you described - with the killer silently watching her. For how long? How knows. I'd like to know more about the statement her former fiancee David made about feeling as though she were being followed. I cannot recall where I read it, but I am sure it is in one of the articles linked from http://www.whokilledbetsy.com.

I tend to agree with what you are saying about the lack of a personal connection. But how personal do you mean? Would seeing her in passing 10 times over a semester, and maybe even talking to her once or twice, count as "stalking" or a "personal connection". I don't think so. So, that does not rule out a student, faculty member, or PSU employee.

I had classes with people during undergraduate and graduate school, or saw people on campus, and didn't necessarily know if these people were "saints" or not. The same with work, and people in other departments, who are nice in a 5 minute interaction but I know nothing about them overwise because my daily work and personal life does not intersect much - if at all - with their life.

There is a lot to consider here.

 

[milopedes]

I hope that the lastest investigator has considered someone looking at this case with experience and knowledge to read crime scenes.

Unfortunately, what crime scene? It was never treated as one, the evidence that was there was contaminated by multiple people and a janitor who cleaned up, and all we are left with are second-hand accounts of eye-witnesses who were supposedly there. FYI: I'm sure the police have better accounts via interviews at the time, but we don't at this point in time.

If I lived closer to PSU here is what I would get . . .

1. A large-scale map of the core at the time.
2. Placement on that map of the exit points, where the crime occurred, and where potential "witnesses" were at the time.
3. Pictures of the aisle where the crime occurred.

Visualization makes all the difference. Thanks to Derek, I have learned some things I did not know regarding the crime scene. One of those is that the aisle she was found in was close-ended. As they say, "The devil is in the details." Well, as an outsider it helps to see those things while considering the crime.

 

[littlehorn]

Unfortunately, what crime scene? It was never treated as one, the evidence that was there was contaminated by multiple people and a janitor who cleaned up, and all we are left with are second-hand accounts of eye-witnesses who were supposedly there. FYI: I'm sure the police have better accounts via interviews at the time, but we don't at this point in time.

If I lived closer to PSU here is what I would get . . .

1. A large-scale map of the core at the time.
2. Placement on that map of the exit points, where the crime occurred, and where potential "witnesses" were at the time.
3. Pictures of the aisle where the crime occurred.

Visualization makes all the difference. Thanks to Derek, I have learned some things I did not know regarding the crime scene. One of those is that the aisle she was found in was close-ended. As they say, "The devil is in the details." Well, as an outsider it helps to see those things while considering the crime.

Sorry I haven't been replying much here on the board...Just been busy. I think everyone is having a great conversation without me, so I've just been checking in and reading what you're putting out there!

Keep up the great work, everyone!

 

[littlehorn]

I'd like to know more about the statement her former fiancee David made about feeling as though she were being followed. I cannot recall where I read it, but I am sure it is in one of the articles linked from http://www.whokilledbetsy.com.

This was in the Phila. Inquirer article...Not sure whether that is his personal theory, or something he based on his nonverbal communications with her. He indicated she had never told him anything specifically about feeling followed or in danger, but I need to get in touch with him and clear that up now that I've read it.

 

[kline]

Great points millopedes!
Your scenario of how it could have occured has a lot of merit.
I still wonder if he wasnt surprised that she didnt cry out since he would have no reason to think she wouldnt.
Consider the Tate murders,details of which were well publicized at the time it was more like a hog slaughter.Messy and noisey.
Susan Atkins grand jury testimony about having to stab Sharon Tate 16 times until "she stopped screaming" had been prominently featured in news accounts shortly befor Betsy was killed.
It seems like if immediatly silencing her had been his top priority he would have slit her throat just as quick and fatal.
Maybe he didnt care and when she fell just knocking over books he went
"Oh."and fled.
I think your take on what kind of person he was certainly holds water whether he was concerened about being caught at PSU or not.
The fact remains he wasnt whether that came as a happy surprise for him or not.
I wish someone with a fresh set of eyes(PrefereblyDerek) could see the file.
Without that were left with too many blank spaces to fill in.
Probaly alot of out theories could be discarded outright with just a little more info form the investigation.
Considering the current stasis of the case in regards to LE I cant imagine what they think it could hurt.

 

[MaryLiz]

Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts!

I still feel the MI and "thrill kill" angles hold less merit. I'm not denying there wasn't a level of thrill, or a "high", for the killer. As I said in my last post, it has been awhile since I had researched any of this, so I'd have to read more about those types of crimes and the people who generally commit them.

You say something about the killer "quietly pursuing her", and honestly, it makes me wonder who else - student or non-student - may have seen her and targeted her. That scenario works with what I described a few posts ago. I'm not saying what I wrote is correct, I was just trying to examine the facts logically and develop a scenario.

The evidence does not seem to lean toward the behavior of a typcial stalker, but that does not mean it didn't happen the way you described - with the killer silently watching her. For how long? How knows. I'd like to know more about the statement her former fiancee David made about feeling as though she were being followed. I cannot recall where I read it, but I am sure it is in one of the articles linked from http://www.whokilledbetsy.com.

I tend to agree with what you are saying about the lack of a personal connection. But how personal do you mean? Would seeing her in passing 10 times over a semester, and maybe even talking to her once or twice, count as "stalking" or a "personal connection". I don't think so. So, that does not rule out a student, faculty member, or PSU employee.

I had classes with people during undergraduate and graduate school, or saw people on campus, and didn't necessarily know if these people were "saints" or not. The same with work, and people in other departments, who are nice in a 5 minute interaction but I know nothing about them overwise because my daily work and personal life does not intersect much - if at all - with their life.

There is a lot to consider here.

By no personal connection, I meant that if this was done by someone who just decided to go out and kill for no reason that they may have picked Betsy at random and didn't know her at all. I do think there was more to it than that, meaning I tend to lean more toward my theory of her being, as her fiance put it, "pursued" by someone. The reason I don't think it was blatant stalking is I think Betsy would have been aware of someone following her. Stalkers usually makes themselves known by sending letters, making phone calls, letting their victim know that they are being watched, and terrorizing them. That's why I said quietly pursuing her. Apparently Betsy wasn't aware of anyone who may have been watching her, or at least she never said so.

When I said she was short of being a saint I meant that there was absolutely nothing in her background or her life that would give any kind of clues as to why she was murdered. No skeletons in the closet, no hidden past...nothing. Another reason why it's so hard to come up with theories about this case!

 

[littlehorn]

I am thinking about walking away from this case. What I would like to know is, would anyone be interested in taking over the website for the cost of the hosting?

I'd hate to lose the chance to solve the case but at the same time I am just too busy to continue working on this as much as I have.

Anyone interested?

 

[MaryLiz]

I am thinking about walking away from this case. What I would like to know is, would anyone be interested in taking over the website for the cost of the hosting?

I'd hate to lose the chance to solve the case but at the same time I am just too busy to continue working on this as much as I have.

Anyone interested?

Wow Derek, that's too bad. I don't want to see you give up on the case. You've done such good work and seem to have made some progress. I understand though if it's interfering with your work or personal life. I know how being so personally involved in a case can take a big chunk out of your work and home life. Maybe you could stay involved, just not as much?? As for the website, I certainly would love to do it but I don't have the time either. Like I said, I hate to see you leave the case, but understand and respect your decision if you have to.

 

[milopedes]

I am thinking about walking away from this case. What I would like to know is, would anyone be interested in taking over the website for the cost of the hosting?

I'd hate to lose the chance to solve the case but at the same time I am just too busy to continue working on this as much as I have.

Anyone interested?

I'm a little behind in my responses as I've been busy at work.

If you don't mind me asking, how much to you pay per month for the site?

 

[Jade]

Well, I have to admit that I think this theory has more merit than say . . .

1. A jealous female wanting her fiancee;
2. A "contract killer" hired by Durgy;
3. Ted Bundy, or
4. An ex-boyfriend from Hollland, MI.

It isn't quite as sensational as those, but is more realistic if you ask me.

I've read a lot of the varying theories posted in these links, ranging from those above to a Vietnam vet or deranged, dope-smoking hippie, and I just don't think inserting extraneous and completely off-the-wall assertions does us much good.Could there be alterior motives? Sure. I liked the angle of someone wanting to get back at PSU. I've considered the person could have been a current or former student. Makes sense, as it would add to his familarity with the core and how many people frequent the library during the holiday break. It could have also been a PSU employee. All of this is just so difficult to say without having facts to show us whether we are right or wrong.

My bold - how rude!
This is a discussion board everyone has something to offer.

You are obviously referring to my post and it is disappointing because I had looked forward to checking this thread because an article I just read in Smithsonian got me to thinking.

It would be short sighted to read the newspaper articles and discount what it was like during those times. I lived in the region then so I know first hand – the world as we knew it was changing and many were very unhappy with the changes. That is where I am looking for clues.

In 1964 the Civil Rights Act finally passed. By 1965 hand holding and peaceful marches were over and the Watts riots erupted and spread across the country in waves. In April of 1968 Martin Luther King was killed and there were more waves of violence across the nation with Baltimore and D.C. hard hit.

Think – what kind of contained rage could result in cold-blooded murder of a by all accounts lovely young woman? What kind of hate by an apparently unknown assailant lives so long and is so nasty that it is stated in the crude memorial words? What kind of person feels justified and calm in his actions? A racist.

Betsy reportedly was fascinated by Africa and planning to go there. She was in possession of a book on Africa and there was a man of African descent noted to be in the stacks. Betsy could have been tutoring or had a friendship with a man of African decent.

IMO

 

[littlehorn]

I'm a little behind in my responses as I've been busy at work.

If you don't mind me asking, how much to you pay per month for the site?

About $7. With the time involved in the creation of the site, the registration fees for the domain name, etc., I figure if I got $500 out of the deal, I could transfer it as-is, still hosted for 2 years, as a turnkey takeover.

 

[milopedes]

My bold - how rude!
This is a discussion board everyone has something to offer.

You are obviously referring to my post and it is disappointing because I had looked forward to checking this thread because an article I just read in Smithsonian got me to thinking.

It would be short sighted to read the newspaper articles and discount what it was like during those times. I lived in the region then so I know first hand – the world as we knew it was changing and many were very unhappy with the changes. That is where I am looking for clues.

In 1964 the Civil Rights Act finally passed. By 1965 hand holding and peaceful marches were over and the Watts riots erupted and spread across the country in waves. In April of 1968 Martin Luther King was killed and there were more waves of violence across the nation with Baltimore and D.C. hard hit.

Think – what kind of contained rage could result in cold-blooded murder of a by all accounts lovely young woman? What kind of hate by an apparently unknown assailant lives so long and is so nasty that it is stated in the crude memorial words? What kind of person feels justified and calm in his actions? A racist.

Betsy reportedly was fascinated by Africa and planning to go there. She was in possession of a book on Africa and there was a man of African descent noted to be in the stacks. Betsy could have been tutoring or had a friendship with a man of African decent.

IMO

Well, what I wrote was certainly not meant to be rude. I'm a rather matter-of-fact individual, and so I stated what is on my mind. Ultimately, your theories are just as valid as mine.

We have so little factual information with this case, and so little to use in our attempts to unravel the mystery, that each of us is simply left with using the pieces we feel are valuable in putting forth what we feel is a plausible theory. Again, I'm no more "right" than you are "wrong, or vice versa.

And while I agree with you that we simply cannot discount the social movements and events that occurred during this period of time, I personally find it a stretch to insert the race issue - in whatever degree - onto this case.

That is just my opinion, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[littlehorn]

Well, what I wrote was certainly not meant to be rude. I'm a rather matter-of-fact individual, and so I stated what is on my mind. Ultimately, your theories are just as valid as mine.

We have so little factual information with this case, and so little to use in our attempts to unravel the mystery, that each of us is simply left with using the pieces we feel are valuable in putting forth what we feel is a plausible theory. Again, I'm no more "right" than you are "wrong, or vice versa.

And while I agree with you that we simply cannot discount the social movements and events that occurred during this period of time, I personally find it a stretch to insert the race issue - in whatever degree - onto this case.

That is just my opinion, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

While Betsy was accepted into the Peace Corps, for eventual placement in Africa, there is nothing to suggest that the race issue ever came up.

The African student happened to be there in the library at the same time but to my knowledge, they did not know each other. The African student was a geology major and Betsy an English major.

Just clearing things up on that account. While it's possible race could have been involved, it's unlikely.

Just my 0.02.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Littlehorn, I hope you stay with it (yes I finally got in here). I like the job that you are doing.

The only thing that I've heard suggested is that it might have been a "drifter" that got into the area from the then newly opened I-80. The theory was suggested in the Collegian in the early 80's.

Not attempting to be overly racist, the campus was very Caucasian when I was there, about 15 years later. I'd suspect it was even more so in 1969.

 

[littlehorn]

Littlehorn, I hope you stay with it (yes I finally got in here). I like the job that you are doing.

The only thing that I've heard suggested is that it might have been a "drifter" that got into the area from the then newly opened I-80. The theory was suggested in the Collegian in the early 80's.

Not attempting to be overly racist, the campus was very Caucasian when I was there, about 15 years later. I'd suspect it was even more so in 1969.

J.J. Thanks! I've been trying...Not sure what I'm going to do now just yet because I want to make sure the work we've done doesn't get lost.

Kline: The turtles hatched on Friday -- got the call yesterday. 3 of the 8 eggs hatched. And they weren't snappers - they were red-eared sliders!

Got to try to see them this weekend.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm wondering. A knife is quiet, which is reasonable considering the library location. Not too many people can use a knife like that. Would someone that was in the military, probably Army or Marines, be trained to make a quick quiet stab?

They was a draft and we were at war at that time.

 

[littlehorn]

I'm wondering. A knife is quiet, which is reasonable considering the library location. Not too many people can use a knife like that. Would someone that was in the military, probably Army or Marines, be trained to make a quick quiet stab?

They was a draft and we were at war at that time.

We've talked about that quite a bit. It's theoretically possible but, again, why?

I think the general consensus is that the chest stab, while not necessarily an unskilled maneuver, would at least be perceived by most people as the cleanest, fastest way to kill someone with a knife without attracting too much attention.

Even a wanna-be soldier will know that you can sometimes kill without sound by puncturing a lung or the heart...I remember reading that in Soldier of Fortune type mags in high school.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We've talked about that quite a bit. It's theoretically possible but, again, why?

I think the general consensus is that the chest stab, while not necessarily an unskilled maneuver, would at least be perceived by most people as the cleanest, fastest way to kill someone with a knife without attracting too much attention.

Even a wanna-be soldier will know that you can sometimes kill without sound by puncturing a lung or the heart...I remember reading that in Soldier of Fortune type mags in high school.

I've read the same magazines , but reading about is different than doing it, especially in a high pressure situation (and this would be). I've carried, and used (not for these purposes, obviously) a Swiss Army Knife since the day I graduated from high school. I doubt if I could pull this off. If I were worried about noise, I might try going for the diaphragm.

Either the killer got very lucky, and just happened to make a wound that silent, quick and "clean," or he knew what he was doing. Someone without experience with killing this way, but in using a knife, e.g. a hunter, a trapper, a farmer, wouldn't necessarily realize this. The killer, obviously, could have gotten lucky, but if this an "expert blow," look for an expert.