PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

I've read the same magazines , but reading about is different than doing it, especially in a high pressure situation (and this would be). I've carried, and used (not for these purposes, obviously) a Swiss Army Knife since the day I graduated from high school. I doubt if I could pull this off. If I were worried about noise, I might try going for the diaphragm.

Either the killer got very lucky, and just happened to make a wound that silent, quick and "clean," or he knew what he was doing. Someone without experience with killing this way, but in using a knife, e.g. a hunter, a trapper, a farmer, wouldn't necessarily realize this. The killer, obviously, could have gotten lucky, but if this an "expert blow," look for an expert.

I guess the problem with the expert theory is: why would this guy be killing a coed in a library?

One guy did claim at a party the next year that he "knew how to kill without making a lot of blood," etc. etc. Police checked him out but let him go. We know who he is but have lost track of him in the years since. He may be dead.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I guess the problem with the expert theory is: why would this guy be killing a coed in a library?

One guy did claim at a party the next year that he "knew how to kill without making a lot of blood," etc. etc. Police checked him out but let him go. We know who he is but have lost track of him in the years since. He may be dead.

It may not have been a personal motivation. Heck, she could chosen just because of her appearance and location, i.e. Miss Scarlett (her red dress and gender), in the library, with a knife.:waitasec: I don't know what is going through the murder's mind.

 

[littlehorn]

It may not have been a personal motivation. Heck, she could chosen just because of her appearance and location, i.e. Miss Scarlett (her red dress and gender), in the library, with a knife.:waitasec: I don't know what is going through the murder's mind.

True, true. That's the problem with this case -- the complete absence of motive allows you to insert any possible motive you want, which drives you crazy after a bit.

 

[kline]

J.J. Thanks! I've been trying...Not sure what I'm going to do now just yet because I want to make sure the work we've done doesn't get lost.

Kline: The turtles hatched on Friday -- got the call yesterday. 3 of the 8 eggs hatched. And they weren't snappers - they were red-eared sliders!

Got to try to see them this weekend.

Congratulations!!!
Red Eared Sliders?...Hmmm My sons have been looking for a new name for their Metal band....
I too by the way would hate to see you walk away from the investigation though as Ive said before you certainly couldnt be blamed.
Youve given more to it then most... a lot more then those whose trust its supposed to be in my opinion.
I still havent given up hope that a pebble that may have started rolling by your efforts may yet be gathering mass and momentum and presently be on a course of rolling right over the killer....we may not be aware of it yet,but it could be happening.
Ive been impressed by the thought put into this by alot of the new posters on this thread.
(Thanks to you)
Lots of intriguiging stuff.Its awesome to see fresh thought go into this rather then some LE figure set there and go well its a cold case....too bad it never got solved...

 

[littlehorn]

Thanks for the kind words. My biggest frustration is that the police don't seem to care. It's not the trooper in charge -- it's whoever is over top of him, I think.

I did send two tips along that I received after the Phila. Inquirer article ran. It's been two weeks and I haven't even received a "got your email" as a reply. For all I know they were deleted.

My question becomes: What if I do receive a really important tip, and they don't act on it? Do I have any legal liability from having received it, passing it along and them doing nothing with it? Consulting with lawyers costs $$$.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks for the kind words. My biggest frustration is that the police don't seem to care. It's not the trooper in charge -- it's whoever is over top of him, I think.

I did send two tips along that I received after the Phila. Inquirer article ran. It's been two weeks and I haven't even received a "got your email" as a reply. For all I know they were deleted.

My question becomes: What if I do receive a really important tip, and they don't act on it? Do I have any legal liability from having received it, passing it along and them doing nothing with it? Consulting with lawyers costs $$$.

You might find an attorney willing to help you, pro bono. Dickinson Law is now part of Penn State and it is possible that one of Betsy's classmate might be an attorney now.

 

[kline]

Thanks for the kind words. My biggest frustration is that the police don't seem to care. It's not the trooper in charge -- it's whoever is over top of him, I think.

I did send two tips along that I received after the Phila. Inquirer article ran. It's been two weeks and I haven't even received a "got your email" as a reply. For all I know they were deleted.

My question becomes: What if I do receive a really important tip, and they don't act on it? Do I have any legal liability from having received it, passing it along and them doing nothing with it? Consulting with lawyers costs $$$.

The lack of interest by the powers that be is incredibly frustrating.
As Ive mentioned before I spent 8 years working for the Dept. Of Corrections in this state and believe me the inner politics from supervisory to administration with anything connected to Law Enforcement can be Byzantine and Visciously backstabing in the extreme.
And that nonsense can trump everything in priority.
We'll never know but I would bet someone connected with this investigation peed in someones well placed bowl of Cheerio's and it splattered everywhere and is still sticking to the walls.
This can leave a stigma that can last for years.
And it probably didnt even have anything to do with the case itself.
I could be wrong but id bet $20 on it.

 

[littlehorn]

The lack of interest by the powers that be is incredibly frustrating.
As Ive mentioned before I spent 8 years working for the Dept. Of Corrections in this state and believe me the inner politics from supervisory to administration with anything connected to Law Enforcement can be Byzantine and Visciously backstabing in the extreme.
And that nonsense can trump everything in priority.
We'll never know but I would bet someone connected with this investigation peed in someones well placed bowl of Cheerio's and it splattered everywhere and is still sticking to the walls.
This can leave a stigma that can last for years.
And it probably didnt even have anything to do with the case itself.
I could be wrong but id bet $20 on it.

You're probably exactly right.

I have decided I'm going to step away. This whole thing is getting way too hot for me. It's been getting a bit weird and I just don't want to put my family at any risk.

For the record, despite all the research, I'm still as perplexed as everybody else about this whole thing...

The police will do what they do but it sounds as though this one will never be solved. It's a shame but I can't risk my own life to do their job for them, and that's what it feels like it's coming to.

Thanks again guys for all your help and support.

 

[milopedes]

Is the website down already? I just checked the Wikipedia entry and noticed the references had been altered, so I checked the site, and the search engine indicated the site does not exist.

 

[littlehorn]

Is the website down already? I just checked the Wikipedia entry and noticed the references had been altered, so I checked the site, and the search engine indicated the site does not exist.

No, I think the hosting people were doing maintenance. I couldn't access my email this morning either.

 

[kline]

You're probably exactly right.

I have decided I'm going to step away. This whole thing is getting way too hot for me. It's been getting a bit weird and I just don't want to put my family at any risk.

For the record, despite all the research, I'm still as perplexed as everybody else about this whole thing...

The police will do what they do but it sounds as though this one will never be solved. It's a shame but I can't risk my own life to do their job for them, and that's what it feels like it's coming to.

Thanks again guys for all your help and support.

Youve got to trust your gut instinct if thats what it feels like its coming down to by all means step away quickly.
Getting yourself hurt isnt going to bring Betsy back or solve this case.
All I can say is bless your heart for the compassion youve shown in this investigation.
I hope youll keep coming back here though.
When you feel up to it I would sure like to hear some of your insight into some of the other cases on this board there are tons of facinating and perplexing ones.Take care my friend.

 

[MaryLiz]

Youve got to trust your gut instinct if thats what it feels like its coming down to by all means step away quickly.
Getting yourself hurt isnt going to bring Betsy back or solve this case.
All I can say is bless your heart for the compassion youve shown in this investigation.
I hope youll keep coming back here though.
When you feel up to it I would sure like to hear some of your insight into some of the other cases on this board there are tons of facinating and perplexing ones.Take care my friend.

I completely agree...don't risk any danger for this. We would all love to see it solved but not if it involves potential harm to yourself or your family. Thanks again for everything you have done. :clap:

 

[milopedes]

The chatter had died down a bit. I guess it is difficult to maintain interest in such an old case with so few facts or updates. Too bad.

 

[littlehorn]

Yes, it's a shame.

I took the site down. Was told by a tipper that Tpr. in charge was dismissive and uninterested in the information he gave him. I wish them the best of luck, but if they want to try to solve it on their own, without help, don't listen to anybody, and it never gets solved, so be it.

In the words of Strother Martin in Cool Hand Luke:

"Which, is the way he wants it. Well...he gets it. And I don't like it...anymore than you men."

 

[kline]

Yes, it's a shame.

I took the site down. Was told by a tipper that Tpr. in charge was dismissive and uninterested in the information he gave him. I wish them the best of luck, but if they want to try to solve it on their own, without help, don't listen to anybody, and it never gets solved, so be it.

In the words of Strother Martin in Cool Hand Luke:

"Which, is the way he wants it. Well...he gets it. And I don't like it...anymore than you men."

Yeah,they dont need any help,I mean look how much progress has been made doing it there way over the last three decades.
(Aw heck it was probably just some hippie who freaked out on a bad marijuana trip,you know how those longhairs were up there at them universities.Hail yeah.They's probably a couple of 'em up there tradin' dope and Betsy interupted them. Case closed.)
Im sure an arrest is forthcoming at any second.

 

[SweetPea31]

I just joined websleuths and got interested in Betsy's case after hearing about it on a show called The Paranormal State. They only mentioned it briefly, but the odd circumstances surrounding her murder made me want to learn more. It's unfortunate that your site is down. I really wanted to take a look at it. I just finished reading an article on Philly.com posted July 31, 2008 about the murder. In the article, the troopers in charge make it sound like they are thankful for your research and help. Will you still be discussing theories and thoughts on the murder on websleuths?

 

[littlehorn]

I just joined websleuths and got interested in Betsy's case after hearing about it on a show called The Paranormal State. They only mentioned it briefly, but the odd circumstances surrounding her murder made me want to learn more. It's unfortunate that your site is down. I really wanted to take a look at it. I just finished reading an article on Philly.com posted July 31, 2008 about the murder. In the article, the troopers in charge make it sound like they are thankful for your research and help. Will you still be discussing theories and thoughts on the murder on websleuths?

Yes, I'm sorry you missed the site while it was up. A lot of the information can be found on the Wikipedia page I started for her, along with some of the other pages that have come along as copycats. A great article to read is Sascha Skucek's "The Last Reason" on the State College Magazine site.

The article did make the troopers sound like they were happy for our help. If so they have a funny way of showing it.

I likely won't be around anymore unless there is something new that comes out that I think people should see/read. My investigating days are over.

 

[StealthTheory]

Wow, go to TrueCrimeDiary.com
There is now a story about Besty Aardsma and suggested connections to the Zodiac Killer.

 

[StealthTheory]

Okay, IF, a big IF, Betsy was murdered by the Zodiac Killer, AND the Zodiac Killer did carve the poem referenced on True Crime's site, it would mean the way Betsy was murdered was fantasy of his because it was written Before Betsy's murdere and mentions a red dress and says she didn't die. The way Betsy was killed, it wasn't evident she was truly dying when they took her to the hospital because her blood drained into her lung and witnesses thought she was having a seizure.

Also, the document expert thinks the poem and the Zodiac's writing is the same, but the poem was a carving. I'd like to know how much regular handwriting and carved writing differ. I would think the writers strength, tool and the grain of the wood would affect the writing a lot.

Ya know, it is believable to a point. The Zodiac killer definitely seemed to have a deep fantasy life, his costumes / murders/ letters all point to that, so I could believe he would carve a poem about a murder he hasn't yet commited...but I don't know.

 

[littlehorn]

Okay, IF, a big IF, Betsy was murdered by the Zodiac Killer, AND the Zodiac Killer did carve the poem referenced on True Crime's site, it would mean the way Betsy was murdered was fantasy of his because it was written Before Betsy's murdere and mentions a red dress and says she didn't die. The way Betsy was killed, it wasn't evident she was truly dying when they took her to the hospital because her blood drained into her lung and witnesses thought she was having a seizure.

Also, the document expert thinks the poem and the Zodiac's writing is the same, but the poem was a carving. I'd like to know how much regular handwriting and carved writing differ. I would think the writers strength, tool and the grain of the wood would affect the writing a lot.

Ya know, it is believable to a point. The Zodiac killer definitely seemed to have a deep fantasy life, his costumes / murders/ letters all point to that, so I could believe he would carve a poem about a murder he hasn't yet commited...but I don't know.

The one big problem with the Zodiac theory is that, despite the fact that it's unsolved, all of the MAJOR Zodiac suspects can be accounted for on the West coast during the time Betsy was murdered.

Also, no prints have been matched through databases and most of the suspects have prints on file.