PA PA - Carol Dougherty, 9, Bristol, 22 Oct 1962

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bessie said:
I think it's lovely old church with its doors opening right onto the sidewalk. You don't see that in many modern churches.

Anyway, I'm still stuck on this idea about the head covering. I read through all of the articles again, and realized it wasn't mentioned in the original reports. None that I read, anyway, and I've read quite a few. And never is it mentioned in reference to Carol Ann.

The reference to the friends and head coverings comes from a February 1977 Courier Times article. The reference to Carol Ann's mom lacking a head covering was printed in a 1994 article. So it's an idea that was tacked on well after the fact.

I might be way off base, but I have a notion the absence of a "head covering" was a big deal because her parents and LE knew she had one with her, and it should have been found in the church. That's the kind of detail LE will withhold from the public. These later hints might have been added as a means to spook the killer a little bit, provoke him. To let him know they were aware he'd kept a souvenir in the hopes he might be moved to show his hand.

I also wonder about the "lingerie" Sabadish was said to have purchased, telling the saleswoman it was for his wife. Was he actually buying it for BZ or another woman? I question it because when violent rapists/killers are caught, we frequently learn they had a fetish for women's undergarments, often wearing it themselves.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/ne...2-4fcf-5197-9306-be0506fe9b72.html?mode=story

I've questioned that, myself. They both lied about their whereabouts, too. We'd have to dig deeper to find out where Schrader was when Marise was killed.

If Sabadish was the perp, he must have had a plan to remove Carol Ann's body, but I don't think he expected the kids or the lady to come by. Or for Carol Ann's mom to look for her so soon. Carol Ann was seen by some men on their way to work shortly before 4:00 P.M. Mrs. D went looking for CA around 4:30. That's a pretty tight timeline. If he was alone, he might have panicked and left quickly so he'd be seen away from the church. If there were two of them, it seems they would have made an effort to at least hide her body inside the church temporarily, and clean up the scene. Unless Schrader was supposed to take care of it, and he panicked, too, when Mrs. D came by.
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I haven't read the whole thread yet, I'm still on page 2, but I'm agreeing with the poster who said she may have been given permission to enter church by very important person.

My reasoning is she was found with one shoe on, one shoe off and the sock had been pulled off foot and used to gag her. I would think if she had her head covering, it would have been faster and easier to use that to gag her versus taking the time to pull shoe and sock off. IMO
 
Renee110 said:
I haven't read the whole thread yet, I'm still on page 2, but I'm agreeing with the poster who said she may have been given permission to enter church by very important person.

My reasoning is she was found with one shoe on, one shoe off and the sock had been pulled off foot and used to gag her. I would think if she had her head covering, it would have been faster and easier to use that to gag her versus taking the time to pull shoe and sock off. IMO
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Possibly, but the short, lacy chapel veils that most Catholic school girls carried back in the day would not have made an efficient "gag". JMO

http://redcardigan.blogspot.com/2013/02/did-chapel-veil-kill-head-covering.html
 

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About the sock used as a gag, this was done to my cousin as well (Kathy Jones, age 12, murdered in December of 1969 in Nashville, Tennessee.)

I know Carol Ann had a little veil, but I think murderers prefer to do things like use socks. (Apart from the fact socks tend to be a little more substantial than a little girl's veil.) I'll bet he kept her little veil... Or took it with the intention of keeping it, at least.

As for the "praying man", did anyone recognize him? I didn't see where it says (but, maybe I missed it). Had he been there long? Maybe he was only pretending to pray. Maybe he was just waiting.

This being said, I saw some discussion of a very mean man who is connected to this case, so...

It is just shocking how fast this happened. But, what can a little girl only nine years old do against a grown man?
 
I have been able to view Carol Ann's death certificate and it stated that the time of her "injury" was 4:00pm on 10/22/62 and that she died at 5:45pm on 10/22/62. When I look news stories, it says that Mrs. Dougherty came to the church at around 4:30-4:35pm and could not enter because she was missing a head covering. So, Mrs. Doughtery went home as fast as she could, got her husband, and they went back to the church in the car. Then, they went looking for her. So, the church doors were open at 4:30pm? Because, other stories talk about a parishioner coming up to the doors and they were locked. But, if Carol Ann was "injured" at 4:00pm and Mrs. Dougherty went to the church looking for her at 4:30 or 4:35pm, then when did the female parishioner come to visit the church? Another question is how long did it take to find Carol Ann? It seems like a very short time between Mrs. Dougherty's determination that she couldn't enter the church due to lack of head covering, going home and getting Mr. Dougherty, and both of them returning to the church. And again, the church was open at that time. It's just that the timelines don't totally match up, unless there are some errors in the timing. If this has already been covered, please excuse the repetition and chalk it up to my newness. Oh, and if anyone would like me to provide a few pics of the death certificate, please let me know. It's accessible on Ancestry.com (as long as you have a membership).
 
According to Carol Ann's sister, their mother did go into the church, but failed to check the choir loft. She more than likely called her daughter's name and when there was no answer, assumed she wasn't there and went home to get her husband. Incidentally, Mrs. Dougherty was Lutheran, not Catholic, and, again, according to Carol Ann's sister, if their mother had believed something had happened to one of her children inside the church, she would not have been deterred from entering because her head wasn't covered.
 
I don't believe the priest raped and murdered Carol Ann Dougherty, but I do believe the man or boy who did so confessed to him immediately following the deed and that was the reason Sabadish was acting so strangely thereafter.
 
mydnyghtrayvyn said:
I have been able to view Carol Ann's death certificate and it stated that the time of her "injury" was 4:00pm on 10/22/62 and that she died at 5:45pm on 10/22/62. When I look news stories, it says that Mrs. Dougherty came to the church at around 4:30-4:35pm and could not enter because she was missing a head covering. So, Mrs. Doughtery went home as fast as she could, got her husband, and they went back to the church in the car. Then, they went looking for her. So, the church doors were open at 4:30pm? Because, other stories talk about a parishioner coming up to the doors and they were locked. But, if Carol Ann was "injured" at 4:00pm and Mrs. Dougherty went to the church looking for her at 4:30 or 4:35pm, then when did the female parishioner come to visit the church? Another question is how long did it take to find Carol Ann? It seems like a very short time between Mrs. Dougherty's determination that she couldn't enter the church due to lack of head covering, going home and getting Mr. Dougherty, and both of them returning to the church. And again, the church was open at that time. It's just that the timelines don't totally match up, unless there are some errors in the timing. If this has already been covered, please excuse the repetition and chalk it up to my newness. Oh, and if anyone would like me to provide a few pics of the death certificate, please let me know. It's accessible on Ancestry.com (as long as you have a membership).
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I don't understand,

If this was a Mother, frantically looking for her missing daughter, why would she need her head covered? And why would she find the need to go home, no matter how fast to get it? Unless she had suspicious and did not want to be recognized? I mean, I wouldn't go home, I'd be searching that church and calling out my daughter's name for a long time.

Satch
 
Satch said:
I don't understand,

If this was a Mother, frantically looking for her missing daughter, why would she need her head covered? And why would she find the need to go home, no matter how fast to get it? Unless she had suspicious and did not want to be recognized? I mean, I wouldn't go home, I'd be searching that church and calling out my daughter's name for a long time.

Satch
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Because as a deeply religious family, especially in the 60's She would not have entered the church not properly attired. Also at this point, If she things her daughter may be in the church she is not probably frantic but feeling the church is ta place she would be safe, right? If you look at this town, It is a tiny little riverside place. I have a plan to go over and walk the distance from their home at the time to the church. I think what makes this hard is that people including myself tend to look at things through our present eyes. We have to go back and view it as a person in the 60's. Women were different. Men were different and priests were revered in a way they are not today.
 
So.... This week I was talking to man who grew up in Bristol and new Sabadish.. It seems it was known that Sabadish was having affairs. What also left an impression was that this was a deeply religious and catholic town. Priests were revered and no one was ever going to speak against one. I wish there was some DNA testing going on in this case.
 
ScarlettScarpetta said:
I tried searching to see if I could find her here and could not. In searching for unsolved murders in Levittown, ( after Jason Smith was arrested)

I found this

UNSOLVED CHILD MURDER : CAROL ANN DOUGHERTY

I have never heard if it before and wondered if anyone here had.

I am kind of new so if I posted in the wrong place please help!!

" Carol Ann Dougherty was raped and murdered in St. Mark's Church in Bristol Borough on Oct. 22, 1962. "
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It is my understanding that many men were interviewed. Does anyone know of any other potential suspects or any other men who were interviewed?
 
ScarlettScarpetta said:
I just came back from St Mark. Took a picture of the front as it faces Radcliffe st. I searched graveyard and could not find a grave for her there.

Now you have to forgive me because I am novice. So if you point me in the right direction I am happy to search for more information. The Library is close and I could go there on tuesday and search for old newspaper info. ( do they still have that stuff on microfilm?) I am not sure what papers were local then so I will have to ask. At least I have a date to look for. The Bucks County Courier Times in right around the corner. I can call them and look for old articles maybe pictures?

I am happy to do ground work but I am not sure where to start.
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Robin Hood said:
IIRC his alibi was visiting parishioners, when checked he hadn't been seen.

Edited to add link

http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/ne...2-4fcf-5197-9306-be0506fe9b72.html?mode=story


Chief Faragalli turned his attention to Joseph Sabadish, a priest at St. Mark. Three parish priests were interviewed by police, and their alibis checked, but not Sabadish’s.

His story about how he had been visiting parishioners at the time of Carol’s murder proved untrue, when the parishioners said he hadn’t been there.

Also, within minutes of Carol’s murder, eyewitnesses said they saw Sabadish acting oddly on Mill Street, the town’s shopping district. Sabadish went into Popkin’s shoe store and asked the clerk for the time, which the clerk found odd since Sabadish was wearing a wristwatch with the correct time.

<modsnip>
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father sabadish was a known sex offender. everyone in the area knows the priest did it. kind of like everyone knows oj did it. theu just never got the evidence. he went into a shoe store right afterwards and asked if they sold underwear. also the body fluids were found to come from a sterile man. previously father sabadish tried to start an affair with a married woman and told her he was sterile
 
ms Aldrin said:
father sabadish was a known sex offender. everyone in the area knows the priest did it. kind of like everyone knows oj did it. theu just never got the evidence. he went into a shoe store right afterwards and asked if they sold underwear. also the body fluids were found to come from a sterile man. previously father sabadish tried to start an affair with a married woman and told her he was sterile
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Interestingly enough, I don’t believe that the priest did it. Yes, he was a child molester, but I don’t believe he was a murderer. Unfortunately, I think that the actual murderer was overlooked during the investigation because too much focus was on the priest.
 
I also don't believe it was the priest. She died before I was born but I lived in Bristol from 1973 - 1975. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. I frequently went into St. Mark's Church after school. The front doors were always unlocked during the day. Sometimes I was alone in the church but sometimes there were other people in the pews praying including the nuns from the convent which was a block down from the church. The priest would know that someone could walk in at anytime to pray and he would also know that if the door was locked to the church it would definitely raise questions. I had heard the story about her murder and wondered who would do that to a child inside a church. I hope she is at peace and the person who did it has answered for his crime to a higher authority.
 
Those of us who were ‘groomed’ from a young age, my Mom having been a former nun, were taught that the priest was God’s representative ( not sure if I’m sating it correctly English not my first language.) we were taught not to question. But my brother punched him in the face that Christmas Eve. Done.
I firmly believe it was the priest, from my family's experience, for far too long a time. I agree get the DNA done. Now
 
Tony1902 said:
Those of us who were ‘groomed’ from a young age, my Mom having been a former nun, were taught that the priest was God’s representative ( not sure if I’m sating it correctly English not my first language.) we were taught not to question. But my brother punched him in the face that Christmas Eve. Done.
I firmly believe it was the priest, from my family's experience, for far too long a time. I agree get the DNA done. Now
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With recent developments with DNA/ genetic genealogy ( identifying the rapist/ murderer of Marise Chivarella, identifying Joseph Augustus Zarelli, previously known as America's Unknown Child) it is hopeful that Carol Ann's murder could finally be solved. Is her case considered to be open? I have read that Bucks County does not have resources to dedicate. Wondering if state resources, FBI assistance with this could be applied. Hopeful this may happen.
 
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