J. J. in Phila
Verified Insider
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 8,484
- Reaction score
- 3,952
I'm wondering it he was drugged or if someone got him drunk.
Was Corporal Corriveau prescribed any medication?
I'm wondering it he was drugged or if someone got him drunk.
Because there were no toxicology test done, we do not know.
That could answer some questions.
When I told my roommate. When I told my roommate it was combat veteran who was a Marine in 1968, who was stabbed from the front, and there were no defensive wounds, her initial response was "suicide." She based that on that it would be reflexive for any Marine to defend himself.
Trying to put everything together, I can only come up with four possibilities.
1. Corporal Carriveau was drugged and then stabbed.
2. He was killed, poisoned, and then stabbed to take the attention away from the poisoning.
3. He let someone kill him, possibly a form of what today is called assisted suicide. The "assistant" moved the body.
4. He killed himself, and a friend/assistant moved the body. There was a much greater social and religious stigma to suicide at the time.
The problem with 3 and 4 is the lack of ID. I could understand someone doing that if Corporal Carriveau or his had religious views against suicide. I do not understand why someone would not leave ID or at least leave an anonymous message with the police or the Marine Corps as to who he was.
I'm told that there would not be a huge amount of blood from that type of a wound. The victim tends to bleed internally, IIRC.
There is a "sailor's knife" or a "rigger's knife," but I don't think they were standard issue, even as far back as World War II. The KA BAR was the standard issue; the "rigger's knifes" is more used with sail boats and yachting. One, possibly, could inflict such a wound, but they are the size of a Swiss Army Knife, at least the ones made now.
There are also a problem of trying to stab while sitting. If someone a standing, he could put his body weight into the thrust. He couldn't do that as well while sitting and swinging his arm laterally. He also could not target it as well. It is not impossible, but it would be much more difficult.
All of that still wouldn't explain why Corporal Carriveau still did not attempt to defend himself, nor why his wallet and dog tags are missing.
I would not rule out suicidal thoughts as an explanation for the lack of defensive wounds. There is a moral principle called "indirect suicide." One of the examples is a soldier going into combat with an expectation of being killed. In the Catholic Faith, there was a distinction drawn, a soldier fighting for a good cause, even expecting death, would be considered moral. It would depend a lot on Carriveau's religious views and on how strongly he held them.
Also, he was wounded three times, at least once, very seriously. He also declined a discharge.
I've looked at the Marlin spikes, but they were not standard issue and they are more used in ships with rigging for sails, e.g. a yacht or sailboat.
Even if Corriveau was killed/incapacitated instantly after being stabbed, why didn't he attempt to block it or defend himself as the attack was coming? He was well trained to do so and the attack came from the front.
Even under the rubrics of the Catholic Church in 1968, the idea of dying for a good cause was not a "coward's way out." Someone, like a Marine fighting for a good cause and protecting his brother Marines, could be engaged in action that would almost certainly lead to death, and that would be considered morally acceptable. That could have been the motivation to return to combat. The Church has liberalized its position since then, but suicide was very stigmatized at the time, and would be grounds for denying someone a Christian burial. That is an explanation, though not the only one, of why there were no defensive wounds.
Some other reasons are that Corriveau was unconscious, semiconscious or already dead when the wounds were inflicted
As I indicated, a lateral attack from a sitting position, would be fairly difficult.
The killer would not to carry the ID or dog tags of the victim, but why would he take them in the first place, especially the dog tags? The dog tags were removed without force, so either Corporal Corriveau voluntarily removed them, or, postmortem, the killer carefully removed them.
I'm not convinced Bobby Dan left the hospital alive. This may sound a little "out there" but what if, whether deliberate or accidental, he was stabbed in the hospital. By a staff member? Another patient in the psyche ward? I imagine there are any number of surgical instruments that meet the description of a cylindrical weapon. The one they used for lobotomies comes to mind but I haven't found anything to indicate that lobotomies were performed at the Naval Hospital, especially not at that late date.
I do not think Bobby would commit suicide intentionally or otherwise. He felt going back to Vietnam suited him best, he wanted to remain a Marine.
I'm not convinced Bobby Dan left the hospital alive. This may sound a little "out there" but what if, whether deliberate or accidental, he was stabbed in the hospital. By a staff member? Another patient in the psyche ward? I imagine there are any number of surgical instruments that meet the description of a cylindrical weapon. The one they used for lobotomies comes to mind but I haven't found anything to indicate that lobotomies were performed at the Naval Hospital, especially not at that late date.
He was found sitting. That, in and of itself, is unusual. But what if he was put into a car, sitting in the back seat (looking "normal"). By the time they reached the Downingtown area, rigor had set in and that's how they left him.
If he died at the hospital, it would certainly be a black eye for a hospital that seems to have had an excellent reputation. So a cover up began. It would also explain why he had no ID or dog tags on him when he was found.
,I've looked at the Marlin spikes, but they were not standard issue and they are more used in ships with rigging for sails, e.g. a yacht or sailboat.
Even if Corriveau was killed/incapacitated instantly after being stabbed, why didn't he attempt to block it or defend himself as the attack was coming? He was well trained to do so and the attack came from the front.
Even under the rubrics of the Catholic Church in 1968, the idea of dying for a good cause was not a "coward's way out." Someone, like a Marine fighting for a good cause and protecting his brother Marines, could be engaged in action that would almost certainly lead to death, and that would be considered morally acceptable. That could have been the motivation to return to combat. The Church has liberalized its position since then, but suicide was very stigmatized at the time, and would be grounds for denying someone a Christian burial. That is an explanation, though not the only one, of why there were no defensive wounds.
Some other reasons are that Corriveau was unconscious, semiconscious or already dead when the wounds were inflicted
As I indicated, a lateral attack from a sitting position, would be fairly difficult.
The killer would not to carry the ID or dog tags of the victim, but why would he take them in the first place, especially the dog tags? The dog tags were removed without force, so either Corporal Corriveau voluntarily removed them, or, postmortem, the killer carefully removed them.
,
The dog tags were ID: name, religion, and serial number.
Yes, but I was thinking something along the lines of documentation.
A military ID containing name, rank, serial#, unit, assigned company etc and or a drivers license would all be written documentation. The dog tags as I remember them, CORRIVEAU R D USMC (serial #) 2148499 (religion) RC (blood type) O