PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Snoopster]

I haven't followed all of the details in this case, but when people ask about cases that you'd like to see resolved the most, this one is on my top 10 list.

What happened to Ray?

 

[CuriousCricket]

RFG drove down 192 to get to Lewisburg. Much of the route has no inhabitants, no local police, and was outside of cell coverage. Same the day before. That is not consistent with someone worried about his safety.

Does this mean he was seen on 192 the 15th and 16th?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Does this mean he was seen on 192 the 15th and 16th?

He was seen turning on Route 192 from Route 144 in Centre Hall between 11:30 and 11:35 AM on 4/15/05. The witness was a county employee. An attorney saw him on Route 144 between the top of the ridge and Centre Hall between 11:00 and 11:30 AM on the same day.

A few pages back there is a timeline with this on it. They start on page 8 with post 156 on this thread.

 

[Betty P]

Because his prints were not the only ones there.

The only other prints were PFs, two partial ones.

IIRC there were no prints at all on the steering wheel.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only other prints were PFs, two partial ones.

IIRC there were no prints at all on the steering wheel.

I don't any claims about PEF's prints being found. There was one unidentified, though I don't know if that was in the Mini or on the outside.

I don't see the location, though the steering wheel's surface might not be able to retain them.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I don't any claims about PEF's prints being found. There was one unidentified, though I don't know if that was in the Mini or on the outside.

I don't see the location, though the steering wheel's surface might not be able to retain them.

Can't stop this tumbling around in my head. Were there any photos taken of the parking lot his car was left in? His remaining out of town for two nights makes no sense to me. Why not just go back home until whatever he was waiting for -- documents? vehicle? was ready? Surely it would have been more comfortable? Unless he could no longer pretend everything was normal. He had no way of knowing he would not need more of a headstart that being home would have given him. It would have been longer before he was reported missing. No, my head is not making sense of this.

 

[Betty P]

I don't any claims about PEF's prints being found. There was one unidentified, though I don't know if that was in the Mini or on the outside.

I don't see the location, though the steering wheel's surface might not be able to retain them.

I've been downloading some news articles from that time and will try to post some today. There was at least one reference to the other fingerprint being PF's.

I also seem to recall the Final Argument web site showing that none of the fingerprints found were on the steering wheel, where they should have been.

 

[Betty P]

 

[Betty P]

 

[Betty P]

 

[arielilane]

View attachment 465865

In regards to the last paragraph of the article: It's interesting (moo) that the nephew's request for a larger agency to search for his uncle RG were ignored.

Moreover, what's up with not speaking in depth with SS, who was RG's best friend. That is who you go to for information, a person's friends. More moo...if you want to know about a person, ask their close/best friends.

 

[CuriousCricket]

In regards to the last paragraph of the article: It's interesting (moo) that the nephew's request for a larger agency to search for his uncle RG were ignored.

Moreover, what's up with not speaking in depth with SS, who was RG's best friend. That is who you go to for information, a person's friends. More moo...if you want to know about a person, ask their close/best friends.

Exactly. A District Attorney who has made almost 30 years of enemies goes missing and the entire state is NOT up in arms hunting down the bad guys? Nah, this doesn't add up.

The only thing I can think of would explain the laxity in the earliest day or so, but not after that.

I read somewhere about RG being good with the women, so a good ol' boys attitude of boys-will-be-boys would account for the local LE giving him enough time to come home on his own. And that I would understand. But when the car was found and no sight of him -- No. That was call out the posse time and get everybody on it.

Too easy going response. Doesn't make sense.

 

[minazoe]

I still don't buy the eyewitness account of Ray moving the car. How do we know it was Ray? It doesn't seem reliable.
also so weird he is walking around talking on a burner phone.

so he blows off work ( anomaly 1)
goes for a drive
stops off to destroy a hard drive in a quarry lake? (anomaly 2)
drives into Lewiston
walks around some antique shops
meets a woman and is seen with her (anomaly 3)
is seen conversing on what is assumed to be a burner phone (anomaly 4)
is seen again moving his car into it's final resting spot
is never seen again (anomaly 5)

other weirdness

at office late at night
door slamming
tired and distracted


who was Ray talking to? he was talking to someone, who?? how come there are so many unusual things happening on this one day in a period of hours ?
Did he break up with Patty? did he take the day off to get away from her? did he feel threatened by her or her family ?
Did her brother go to find Ray for his sister?

I still don't believe everything. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've been downloading some news articles from that time and will try to post some today. There was at least one reference to the other fingerprint being PF's.

I also seem to recall the Final Argument web site showing that none of the fingerprints found were on the steering wheel, where they should have been.

That is where it talks about the ridges being there, but not enough to identify. That would indicate that the car was not wiped down.

 

[Betty P]

I still don't buy the eyewitness account of Ray moving the car. How do we know it was Ray? It doesn't seem reliable.
also so weird he is walking around talking on a burner phone.

so he blows off work ( anomaly 1)
goes for a drive
stops off to destroy a hard drive in a quarry lake? (anomaly 2)
drives into Lewiston
walks around some antique shops
meets a woman and is seen with her (anomaly 3)
is seen conversing on what is assumed to be a burner phone (anomaly 4)
is seen again moving his car into it's final resting spot
is never seen again (anomaly 5)

other weirdness

at office late at night
door slamming
tired and distracted


who was Ray talking to? he was talking to someone, who?? how come there are so many unusual things happening on this one day in a period of hours ?
Did he break up with Patty? did he take the day off to get away from her? did he feel threatened by her or her family ?
Did her brother go to find Ray for his sister?

I still don't believe everything. mOO

Good questions. JMO, if he broke up with Patty, she probably would have told police. She seemed to be doing all she could to help find him.

A common reason for cold cases that don't make sense is usually missing information and/or context. One way that often happens is when the investigating LE agency doesn't have the experience necessary. A big question in this case is why the small town police where Ray lived (Bellefonte) was given the job of leading the investigation. They didn't even have a full time detective.

I found a good quote at this link, from the Bellefonte Borough police chief who took over the case after the first chief retired:

The hunt for Ray Gricar: 15 years of clues, theories and the search for answers

Could an informant hold the key to solving the mystery of the missing Centre County district attorney?

www.pennlive.com

“It’s a big undertaking for a small but professional police department to take on by itself and still do day-to-day calls,” he said. “I don’t know if I would have taken the case if it was my decision. I struggle with that now: Why the Bellefonte Borough police when, most likely, if there were a crime scene it would be out of our jurisdiction?”

I repeatedly pressed Dixon on this question but his answers were less than satisfying. The closest I got to an answer was that Bellefonte took jurisdiction because that’s where Gricar lived.

“I understood that if the car was found outside of Bellefonte, the state police were going to do the investigation,” he said. “But once the car was found, the detectives from the state police told my officers ... they would assist in the investigation.”

The former police chief said the state told him, the state police would take over the investigation. But once Ray's car was found, the state police only said they would assist. Bellefonte PD did a good job, but didn't have the funds to conduct a good investigation.

Some of the other DA's from surrounding counties lobbied the state to help Bellefonte PD with money or give the investigation to the state police. They also wanted a task force, since it was a big investigation. Many agreed to volunteer their time. IIRC, it went all the way to the AG (later the governor) who refused.

The FBI came in a few days after Ray's car was found, but they only worked on tracing his finances, credit cards, cell phone activity. The job of collecting and processing evidence, following up on tips and interviewing family, co-workers and witnesses fell to the Bellefonte PD.

If a larger LE agency had been in charge of the investigation, might they have solved it or had more information to work with?

 

[Betty P]

View attachment 465906


That is where it talks about the ridges being there, but not enough to identify. That would indicate that the car was not wiped down.

Some had them, some didn't. I need to find the report that states where the prints were found. I'll check on that later.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Exactly. A District Attorney who has made almost 30 years of enemies goes missing and the entire state is NOT up in arms hunting down the bad guys? Nah, this doesn't add up.

The only thing I can think of would explain the laxity in the earliest day or so, but not after that.

I read somewhere about RG being good with the women, so a good ol' boys attitude of boys-will-be-boys would account for the local LE giving him enough time to come home on his own. And that I would understand. But when the car was found and no sight of him -- No. That was call out the posse time and get everybody on it.

Too easy going response. Doesn't make sense.

Yes.

The first thought, which is logical, was that RFG had an accident on a rural and remote road, e.g. 192. That ended when they found the Mini.

Then they were thinking that RFG was with a woman, specifically Barbara Petito (she was on Long Island at family confirmation). They had the witnesses who saw RFG with this mystery woman and had the scent of cigarette smoke in the car.
DZ even said that they were hoping RFG would see the publicity and call in to "shut this down."

The first 48 hours, LE did a stellar job. After that, things began to fall off. I think they, like I did, thought it was suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I still don't buy the eyewitness account of Ray moving the car. How do we know it was Ray? It doesn't seem reliable.
also so weird he is walking around talking on a burner phone.

so he blows off work ( anomaly 1)
goes for a drive
stops off to destroy a hard drive in a quarry lake? (anomaly 2)
drives into Lewiston
walks around some antique shops
meets a woman and is seen with her (anomaly 3)
is seen conversing on what is assumed to be a burner phone (anomaly 4)
is seen again moving his car into it's final resting spot
is never seen again (anomaly 5)

other weirdness

at office late at night
door slamming
tired and distracted


who was Ray talking to? he was talking to someone, who?? how come there are so many unusual things happening on this one day in a period of hours ?
Did he break up with Patty? did he take the day off to get away from her? did he feel threatened by her or her family ?
Did her brother go to find Ray for his sister?

I still don't believe everything. mOO

We don't know if it was a burner phone, but they saw RFG with the Mini. I'm a bit skeptical of that.

Blowing off work was not an anomaly. He did it 4/14 as well.

No quarry lake.

 

[Betty P]

Yes.

The first thought, which is logical, was that RFG had an accident on a rural and remote road, e.g. 192. That ended when they found the Mini.

Then they were thinking that RFG was with a woman, specifically Barbara Petito (she was on Long Island at family confirmation). They had the witnesses who saw RFG with this mystery woman and had the scent of cigarette smoke in the car.
DZ even said that they were hoping RFG would see the publicity and call in to "shut this down."

The first 48 hours, LE did a stellar job. After that, things began to fall off. I think they, like I did, thought it was suicide.

It was good they found the car right away and local LE made the connection. It's the kind of effort and cooperation you'd expect when a DA goes missing.

But, JMO, the wheels fell off when they jumped to the conclusion that he took off with a woman. IDK, really dumb. He was a DA, a professional with a good reputation. According to his peers and co-workers, he took his job very seriously. It seems unlikely he would go shack up with a woman, not come home and not bother to call and tell anyone where he was. Missed opportunities.

I also find it odd they didn't keep much evidence. Fingerprints, dog search info, and, of course, the laptop and hard drive they obsessed about. Did they ever release copies of his cell phone records, or records of any other phone he might have been using?

 

[CuriousCricket]

View attachment 465906


That is where it talks about the ridges being there, but not enough to identify. That would indicate that the car was not wiped down.

From this, there was one latent fingerprint that was unidentified and was registered with the Unsolved Latent Print data base.

wonder if it has ever shown up?