PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

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Black Diamond said:
You are incorrect. It was updated with information about the Final Argument podcast, which was all released in the past 3 years.

I do not know when the website was initially created, nor how often it was updated. It has not been accessible by my device for several months.
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No. It is not the same site. RK may have bought the domain name.
 
Teche said:
Walked away for what reason?
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There are multiple possible reasons:

1. Worried about his safety.
2. Didn't want to be "the ex-DA", having to answer questions about old cases.
3. He wanted to travel and start a new life.
4. He wanted to prove how superior he was to everyone by pulling off a near perfect vanishing act.
5. He had hidden money overseas and realized after 9/11, he could not get it back into the country. He walked to it.
6. He did something illegal involving his job and realized that, if it was discovered, he (and his heirs) would lose his pension. If he was declared dead, they would get it.

Some, all, or none could be reasons.

As I once wrote, "That is the “motive problem.” In theory there could be a lot of reasons why Mr. Gricar could choose to walk away." I would note that RFG put it well when asked by a judge about the possible motive of a defendant, "Motive, your honor, is something we never have to prove."
 
I believe I initially heard of this case back years ago when it happened. I recently saw the Disappeared episode and I have been trying to catch up and read all the posts here but there are so many!
One thing that has puzzled me and I wonder if anyone has addressed it. In the episode it shows how Patty went to retrieve the county owned laptop from a case on a closet shelf and the cord was there but the laptop was missing. I am wondering if this is true to what happened. If so questions come to mind. Was this laptop normally kept at home? If he took it out of the home why not leave it in the carrying case? Did he take it out that day with the intent to take it on the ride with him to the river to dispose of it? If so why bother to take the hard drive out of it? Would he be required to return county owned property when he left to retire? If he was murdered was he followed there? What murderer would know he was there in that town?
That hard drive holds the key to whatever happened to him. He seemed so interested in wiping a hard drive so there was something there. I assume no one has been able to get anything from it in all these years.
 
LeeBee said:
I believe I initially heard of this case back years ago when it happened. I recently saw the Disappeared episode and I have been trying to catch up and read all the posts here but there are so many!
One thing that has puzzled me and I wonder if anyone has addressed it. In the episode it shows how Patty went to retrieve the county owned laptop from a case on a closet shelf and the cord was there but the laptop was missing. I am wondering if this is true to what happened. If so questions come to mind. Was this laptop normally kept at home? If he took it out of the home why not leave it in the carrying case? Did he take it out that day with the intent to take it on the ride with him to the river to dispose of it? If so why bother to take the hard drive out of it? Would he be required to return county owned property when he left to retire? If he was murdered was he followed there? What murderer would know he was there in that town?
That hard drive holds the key to whatever happened to him. He seemed so interested in wiping a hard drive so there was something there. I assume no one has been able to get anything from it in all these years.
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Welcome!
JJ in Philadelphia can probably answer your questions best, but I'll give a try from my POV

  • Ray used the laptop for work and at home. Like most people who have work laptops he brought it back and forth as needed
  • Not sure why he left the laptop cord behind. It's possible he was going to get rid of the computer and took it for that reason. It's also possible he was going to use it, but not for long.
  • Yes, he was supposed to return the laptop w/hard drive when he retired
  • If murdered, someone may have followed him. My theory is that someone called him that day to arrange a meeting in Lewisburg, hence the last minute decision to drive up there. Someone may have pretended to lure him there promising information about a criminal case or something similar.
  • He may have suggested it as a meeting place because he liked to visit there. OTOH, the person(s) who lured him there knew he liked to visit there to shop for antiques, etc.
  • Yes, the hard drive holds the key. He wanted to destroy it. Whomever killed him must have either wanted the hard drive for themselves or also wanted it destroyed.
  • I also think he had a "burner" cell phone. He was seen in Lewisburg that day, walking around and talking to someone on a cell phone prior to his disappearance, but his own cell phone showed no record of calls at that time, from that location.
  • I also think whatever was on Ray's laptop that he wanted destroyed was information routinely collected as part of an investigation that he planned to use. Something happened to convince him the information he collected on the laptop was now a threat and needed to be destroyed. He probably wouldn't have knowingly put compromising information on a work laptop, but would have used a different computer. JMO
 
arielilane said:
John Ruffo walked away from his life (of course for entirely different reasons) and to this day his whereabouts are unknown - so it's feasible for RG to have walked as well. moo
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It’s definitely feasible. But, I’ve never seen a good enough reason for him to walk away. Just like motive in a murder there would be need to be a very strong motive to walk away from everything and hide forever. Most of the theories I’ve seen posted on these forums are pretty weak motives.

My opinion, if he walked it was out of fear. He was either scared of somebody or scared of getting in trouble. Those are the only strong enough motives to run away and hide forever.

Since no evidence has suggested that he had anyone to be that scared of or anything he did to get in trouble, it’s difficult to buy in to a walk away.
 
Black Diamond said:
It’s definitely feasible. But, I’ve never seen a good enough reason for him to walk away. Just like motive in a murder there would be need to be a very strong motive to walk away from everything and hide forever. Most of the theories I’ve seen posted on these forums are pretty weak motives.

My opinion, if he walked it was out of fear. He was either scared of somebody or scared of getting in trouble. Those are the only strong enough motives to run away and hide forever.

Since no evidence has suggested that he had anyone to be that scared of or anything he did to get in trouble, it’s difficult to buy in to a walk away.
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It also says something that many of his good friends, who were also DA's in Pennsylvania, were very concerned and worried about his disappearance. I don't believe any of them (other than the state AG) thought he had run away or disappeared voluntarily. They thought he might have met with foul play, similar to a US Attorney who was found dead previously

Ray Gricar mystery: New investigator takes over 13-year-old cold case

Thirteen years ago, on April 15, 2005, Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar took a day off from work, set out on a scenic drive and was never seen again.
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com

Another interesting question about his disappearance were the crime scene left behind - his car

His car was abandoned, locked, with is cell phone inside and turned off. Missing were his wallet, laptop and keys. Those are items he would have taken with him if he got into a car with someone else for a meeting or visit. With the exception of the laptop, the other items (wallet, keys, credit cards) are things most suicide victims leave behind.


Based on witness accounts of Ray walking back and forth in the park, talking on the phone for an extensive period of time, but only one short call on the records of his personal phone, it seems possible he was using a "burner" phone. If he left with someone, he would have taken it along with the other personal items, leaving his personal phone behind. JMO, that could indicate he was planning to return to his car.

I still think he was lured there by someone or more likely more than one person, then taken and killed. Whatever it was that was on his laptop computer, he had discovered it was somehow incriminating to someone and needed to be removed. Given that he didn't seem to be stressed out the morning he went to Lewisburg, he wasn't expecting something bad to happen. He was going to a meeting with someone who didn't appear threatening to him. Perhaps it was someone who was offering to help him or wanted to witness him getting rid of the laptop and hard drive.

He was seen in Lewisburg by quite a few witnesses that day and had spent several hours there. Apparently, he had to wait quite a while before the person he was meeting showed up.

JMO
 
LeeBee said:
I believe I initially heard of this case back years ago when it happened. I recently saw the Disappeared episode and I have been trying to catch up and read all the posts here but there are so many!
One thing that has puzzled me and I wonder if anyone has addressed it. In the episode it shows how Patty went to retrieve the county owned laptop from a case on a closet shelf and the cord was there but the laptop was missing. I am wondering if this is true to what happened. If so questions come to mind. Was this laptop normally kept at home? If he took it out of the home why not leave it in the carrying case? Did he take it out that day with the intent to take it on the ride with him to the river to dispose of it? If so why bother to take the hard drive out of it? Would he be required to return county owned property when he left to retire? If he was murdered was he followed there? What murderer would know he was there in that town?
That hard drive holds the key to whatever happened to him. He seemed so interested in wiping a hard drive so there was something there. I assume no one has been able to get anything from it in all these years.
Click to expand...
Welcome!

1. Even in early 2004, RFG had ask the public defender, Lux, about how erase the data on the laptop. He had purchased a clearing program at about the same time. He had also done computer searches in 2006 on his home computer on topics like how to fry a laptop and water damage to a notebook computer.

2. There was at least one witness that saw RFG sitting in the Mini in Lewisburg, "fiddling" with a laptop. He was also seen by at least three witnesses in the proximity of where the drive was tossed.

It is hugely likely that RFG tossed the laptop and drive in the Susquehanna.

However, he might have just wanted to destroy anything on it. He could have wanted to return and on Monday report that he tripped while carrying it and it dropped into the river. He could then just reimburse the county. He could have been going to Lewisburg for another reason, but decided that this would be a good place to "lose" the laptop.

The laptop had a label indicating it was Centre County property, so if it was found there would be a fair chance the County would find out about it.
 
it's fascinating to think of a walk away , there was some innuendo regarding the lack of digging and the zipped lips regarding Ray.

His work related intellectual property and info on open cases are
property of the state..why destroy the computer ? I wouldn't destroy mine..unless...

it had my plans on it and those plans could help you find me. mOO
 
minazoe said:
it's fascinating to think of a walk away , there was some innuendo regarding the lack of digging and the zipped lips regarding Ray.

His work related intellectual property and info on open cases are
property of the state..why destroy the computer ? I wouldn't destroy mine..unless...

it had my plans on it and those plans could help you find me. mOO
Click to expand...

I can think of several reasons RFG would want the data on his computer destroyed, even if he was planning to return.

1. Work related: He could have had personnel evaluations, or things like that, on the laptop.

2. Personal: These could be several different things:

A. He had financial data on it.

B. He had health data on it. This could include family information,

C. He had something risque on it (but perfectly legal). RFG was an adult and could look at adult pictures if he wanted. Perhaps he and PEF liked taking pictures of each other; some couples do.

If RFG was murdered, the laptop might not have been involved. The killer just got lucky that RFG chose that day to toss it.
 
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