GUILTY PA - Four Young Men killed, 18-22, Bucks Co., 5-9 July 2017 #8 *arrests*

[Karinna]

The issues with gun and mental illness....while someone involuntarily committed can't go into a gun store, fill out an application, and buy a gun...they still have access to them. My own sister, deals with bipolar, has been involuntarily committed, went to either an auction or yardsale and bought a pistol. When I told her psychiatrist, she was again committed, but as for the gun, I have no idea where it is! Her husband was told there couldn't be any in the home, BUT, I would bet it's still there, as well as others.

We can't control other people. It just doesn't work.

I answered earlier why I think SK didn't leave. I don't think he was physically able to! If his injuries to his leg from the shooting are to be believed, and he is not suppose to be putting weight on that leg, then how do you suppose he was going to leave the property? Even if he had his phone, had he called someone to come get him, it's likely he and whoever showed up would have been killed. We haven't read or heard the exact role that SK played in this crime spree. I'm not giving him a 'get out of jail free' card. Don't know enough to convict yet.

CD, media is all over, and thus giving us more information to talk about. And unless MSM mentions something, we can't talk about it here! So, that's why all the talk about CD at this point.

I don't think the fact he had a previously injured leg stopped him from committing other previous crimes though. But aside from that the fact he was present at the murders he is charged with does not bode well for him. He made no move to prevent them and more than likely helped CD in all of it. Even if he was too scared or forced by threat to help CD he did get to go home afterwards, and if he didn't do anything as far as murdering the boys he stands accused of killing, then why didn't he call LE once he was back home to alert them to all of what happened?
That way he would be in a lot less serious trouble and CD would of been arrested and no longer posed a threat to anyone including SK if he was scared of CD.

 

[Karinna]

I know. I think CD (and probably SK) probably enjoyed killing those young men. I don't believe they would have regressed in their tastes as to what a good time was. There really is no telling what they would have done if they'd gotten away with it. I also think CD had planned on 5 murders but one young man did not get into his truck that Friday. Whoever CD ran across that day and could talk into going to the farm would have been in danger imo. This case is very upsetting... nobody deserves what happened to those boys (because, I say "young men" but, to me, they were just boys.)

It really is a frightening thought those two were so out of control they were together committing these horrific crimes, and as you say goodness knows where it would all have ended if they hadn't been caught. How many more future victims? And we don't even know exactly if there were other previous murders either? I suppose LE didn't find anything else on their walk through the property, so maybe CD was just boasting about the other two people he claims to have killed?

 

[Karinna]

I know. I think CD (and probably SK) probably enjoyed killing those young men. I don't believe they would have regressed in their tastes as to what a good time was. There really is no telling what they would have done if they'd gotten away with it. I also think CD had planned on 5 murders but one young man did not get into his truck that Friday. Whoever CD ran across that day and could talk into going to the farm would have been in danger imo. This case is very upsetting... nobody deserves what happened to those boys (because, I say "young men" but, to me, they were just boys.)

I agree they are their families "boys" and so young to die. Sometimes this life just really sucks for innocent people who have terrible things happen to them and their family.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Has there been any confirmation that LE has questioned CD about the other two murders he professed to have committed?

 

[pepper 34]

I don't think the fact he had a previously injured leg stopped him from committing other previous crimes though. But aside from that the fact he was present at the murders he is charged with does not bode well for him. He made no move to prevent them and more than likely helped CD in all of it. Even if he was too scared or forced by threat to help CD he did get to go home afterwards, and if he didn't do anything as far as murdering the boys he stands accused of killing, then why didn't he call LE once he was back home to alert them to all of what happened?

That way he would be in a lot less serious trouble and CD would of been arrested and no longer posed a threat to anyone including SK if he was scared of CD.

I have to agree with you. If SK was too disabled to flee a murder once the murdering began (assuming he really thought the plan was only to rob 3 boys) ... then why would he assume he would stand a chance against 3 able bodied boys in order to rob them and go along with that plan? He had to know guns would be involved in the robbing process. So, I just can't see him as an innocent caught in a plan that got out of hand. The way the shootings are described, it seems things never did get out of hand. Just 3 quick murders, planned murders... and I'm not even sure I buy that TM was run over by the backhoe because CD "ran out of ammunition." Personally, I think CD just had an "extra hatred and vendetta" against TM for some reason. TM also stands out to me because he was separated from his car at the first opportunity. CD, himself, says the night was methodically carried out... I don't think his braggart, true gangsta personality would permit him not to share such a grand plan with his cousin. Of course... all just MOO.

 

[pepper 34]

It really is a frightening thought those two were so out of control they were together committing these horrific crimes, and as you say goodness knows where it would all have ended if they hadn't been caught. How many more future victims? And we don't even know exactly if there were other previous murders either? I suppose LE didn't find anything else on their walk through the property, so maybe CD was just boasting about the other two people he claims to have killed?

CD's own claim though, is that he killed 2 people when he was 15 years old. So, any other remains that could be on that farm; those 2 or other than those 2, (if his claim is true) could be quite old and theoretically, buried as deep as 12 feet down. Meanwhile, quite a few areas on that farm probably would still cause the cadaver dogs to alert anyway and could be assumed to be related to this latest killing of 3. Any alerting up on that hill, where JTP was found, might also be assumed to belong to the latest killing of JTP... I don't know if dogs can differentiate between old and new cadaver scent (?) I wonder how many families out there of missing kids are frustrated and disappointed right now as the property will soon or already has been relinquished to the owner.
Another thing to consider: the DA said wasn't sure they ever would have found JTP if CD didn't tell them where the body was... so how successfully were they able to search that area in the first place and how likely is it that they could find older remains in the same area? Can't find JTP... then how do you find someone who was buried out there before JTP?

 

[TeaTime]

CD admitted to killing three by himself and pinned one on SK; the first one. SK admitted to being there and returning the next day to help bury the bodies but not to shooting anyone.

SK had options when CD left to get the Sturgis and Mao. He should have been in fear for his own life after witnessing the cold blooded murder of DF but he stayed. He could have hopped, crawled or dragged himself to a hiding spot or to a nearby home. Self-preservation is a basic human instinct and flight a method of escape from danger. He didn't budge. It tells me he didn't fear his cousin. Why not? Answer: he was complicit from the outset.

I think we will find out that he is a needle junkie of some sort and was high when this all went down. I think his burglaries and his alleged asking friends for $20 is a testament to him being a junkie as $20 is about the going price for a little dose of heroin.

Why is there no talk of the incident in which he was shot 6 times? What was he doing, who shot him, where did it happen and when? Anyone?

 

[Really ???]

We are all talking about CD, but what about SK? What is his deal? Nothing is being said about him at all. We only know he worked as a dishwasher; may have moved around a bit growing up; we assume he has family; we know about him stealing a leaf blower, some tools. some costume jewelry and getting shot 6 times. What is it about him that made him think killing 3 people, setting their bodies on fire and then burying them in a common grave was a good idea?

We try to examine CD's behavior in light of his alleged mental illness and head injury but what made SK act?

SK getting shot 6 times is a red flag for me....was it a possible hit or a drug deal gone bad ? This is a very serious situation, but not a lot has been said about it or how it might connect to the 4 murders.

 

[Karinna]

Sean Kratz: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Kratz was out on bail on a burglary accusation and was recovering from injuries sustained when he was shot.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/07/sean-...ce-person-of-interest-suspect/comment-page-4/

 

[Karinna]

SK getting shot 6 times is a red flag for me....was it a possible hit or a drug deal gone bad ? This is a very serious situation, but not a lot has been said about it or how it might connect to the 4 murders.

From what i just posted sounds like he was shot because of the burglary.
Kratz is also charged in 3 of the murders.

 

[Karinna]

IMO If the cadaver dogs had no problem detecting three of the victims 12ft. in the ground they shouldn't of had any trouble detecting someone in a more shallow grave or other victims buried on that property.

 

[Really ???]

From what i just posted sounds like he was shot because of the burglary.
Kratz is also charged in 3 of the murders.

Wondering if local Philly news published anything about SK shooting. The sheer number of gunshots he sustained should have made this a newsworthy event.

 

[white rabbit]

Really???, i did a search of all shootings between jan 1 and may 1st of this year...none of the victims in the greater philly area matched his age (even if he was younger then)...possibly the news missed it? idk.

stupid question, probably already asked and answered: why didn't they search the dinardo home? the bensalem one? they searched SK's house in ambler...

http://www.fox29.com/news/268024039-story

 

[BIC]

Wondering if local Philly news published anything about SK shooting. The sheer number of gunshots he sustained should have made this a newsworthy event.

It hard to keep up with all the shootings in and around Philly.


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[eekasaur]

(respectfully snipped by me)
Another thing to consider: the DA said wasn't sure they ever would have found JTP if CD didn't tell them where the body was... so how successfully were they able to search that area in the first place and how likely is it that they could find older remains in the same area? Can't find JTP... then how do you find someone who was buried out there before JTP?

My thoughts, exactly. It's terrifying to think that there actually could be more victims.

 

[pepper 34]

IMO If the cadaver dogs had no problem detecting three of the victims 12ft. in the ground they shouldn't of had any trouble detecting someone in a more shallow grave or other victims buried on that property.

Since you brought it up...! and I have been hesitating to bring it up but have wanted to. The elephant; at least in my room. If someone can find the room to drive a backhoe up a hill and dig a hole and bury a body somewhere up on that high "mountain" ground...then why can't searchers walk to that area with cadaver dogs and find that body? What makes that body become one "you might never find" without the help of the killer? Wouldn't driving a backhoe up to that location leave some sort of tracks and disrupted leaves, branches, etc? And, even if not... wouldn't there be a wide enough path up to that location to warrant a good search in that area anyway?

 

[Bwaxy]

Since you brought it up... and I have been hesitating to bring it up. The elephant; at least in my room. If someone can find the room to drive a backhoe up a hill and dig a hole and bury a body somewhere up on that high "mountain" ground...then why can't searchers walk to that area with cadaver dogs and find that body? What makes that body become one "you might never find" without the help of the killer? Wouldn't driving a backhoe up to that location leave some sort of tracks and disrupted leaves, branches, etc? And, even if not... wouldn't there be a wide enough path up to that location to warrant a good search in that area anyway?

I think they would have found it eventually. It was a matter of finding him sooner. I believe the DA said it was .5 - 1 mile away from where they were searching. I totally get what you are saying though.
Now, as far as the deal that was made. Keep in mind the death penalty in PA is currently suspended. The governor suspended a few years ago until it could be reviewed... it's still suspended. I don't think it should take that long but who am I to say? Also, the last person to be put to death in PA was almost 20 years ago.
IMO I think the death penalty should be on the table because I don't believe CD deserves to live after what he did but think the DA knew what he was doing. They got a confession that the defense can't say was coerced because CD gave them the location that they didn't know about.


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[BIC]

Since you brought it up... and I have been hesitating to bring it up. The elephant; at least in my room. If someone can find the room to drive a backhoe up a hill and dig a hole and bury a body somewhere up on that high "mountain" ground...then why can't searchers walk to that area with cadaver dogs and find that body? What makes that body become one "you might never find" without the help of the killer? Wouldn't driving a backhoe up to that location leave some sort of tracks and disrupted leaves, branches, etc? And, even if not... wouldn't there be a wide enough path up to that location to warrant a good search in that area anyway?

To me the DA was overdramatizing when talking about certain aspects of the search. Why he would call it a mountain is beyond me, there are no mountains in lower bucks county, not even close. Upper bucks county doesn't even have what is considered a mountain.


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[pepper 34]

I think they would have found it eventually. It was a matter of finding him sooner. I believe the DA said it was .5 - 1 mile away from where they were searching. I totally get what you are saying though.
Now, as far as the deal that was made. Keep in mind the death penalty in PA is currently suspended. The governor suspended a few years ago until it could be reviewed... it's still suspended. I don't think it should take that long but who am I to say? Also, the last person to be put to death in PA was almost 20 years ago.
IMO I think the death penalty should be on the table because I don't believe CD deserves to live after what he did but think the DA knew what he was doing. They got a confession that the defense can't say was coerced because CD gave them the location that they didn't know about.


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You make some very good points and some I wasn't aware of. Your comment has brought me a measure of relief because I didn't want to think CD was getting some sort of special treatment because of... well, you know. Best left unsaid. Then, too, CD could have left it up in the air as to where the body was... on the farm or off? I just hope he is locked away for the rest of his life. What he has done to so many people is immeasurable in terms of grief and the loss of lives so young for NOTHING and that he will continue on living and gets to wonder about whether he'll get ice cream in prison or not. There are no words.

 

[rkot]

I wonder if when the person known as KBM met with Dinardo about buying the car, if Dinardo confessed to the killings to him, even telling him where the bodies were buried (omitting that JP was elsewhere). Because DA seemed awfully sure they would be there and when JP wasn't, taking death penalty off the table was pursued. Could have brought dogs in again, if they were that accurate-13 feet below, but didn't. That might also explain why KBM has not been revealed (surprised that hasn't been leaked) and why bail was set at 1 million for a gun charge. That seemed excessive unless they already knew he killed them. JMO