PA - Grace Packer, 14, murdered, Abington, 4 July 2016 *Killer died*

[Knox]

I'm not sure about other states, but I went through an eviction in another state and it did not take 6 months. it was less than two months between first notice and sheriff department "kick out."

So add that to my list of bad qualities.

(Although just for the record, I'm a good person who pays bills. I was stupid and didn't realize someone I trusted was an addict and they spent the rent money on meth instead of taking it to the landlord.)

I'm pretty sure you aren't fraudulently collecting $700/MO, killed a child, or have allowed a child to be sexually abused by your husband. Surely you understand my comment within the context it was offered?

 

[flourish]

I'm pretty sure you aren't fraudulently collecting $700/MO, killed a child, or have allowed a child to be sexually abused by your husband. Surely you understand my comment within the context it was offered?

Yes I understood the context. We can also add "overly sensitive about having been evicted" to my list

 

[watergirl62]

Knox, I am pretty sure the SW said JS was playing video games at like 10:45am? I'm thinking that's one reason why they couldn't pay rent. Dude, how old are you? (me to JS)

here it is: I meant the charging doc, not the SW.

 

[Knox]

Flourish, I would add compassionate and an excellent WS'er to the list.

Thanks watergirl, speaks volumes.

 

[Simply Caustic]

A VISUAL TOUR: 429B SUMMIT AVE TO ABINGTON HOSPITAL

You may remember that my wife, "Mrs. F" is a registered nurse with years of work in local emergency rooms and correctional medical facilities. Mrs. F shocked me by casually relaying that she has worked many times over the years at... Abington Hospital! On Sunday 1/22/17, Mrs. F and I visited 429B Summit Ave, then drove the shortest route to Abington Hospital and walked some of the areas of the hospital of relevance to this case (such as admissions, ER, intensive care unit). We did not have opportunity to speak with any AH staff. We are sharing the photos from our tour with this community, and the questions we have raised after our tour, and from regularly "talking Grace".

I will continue to focus on Fri December 30th, 2016 ("Suicide Pact") through Sun January 8, 2016 ("JS Confessions).

As per charging documents, on December 30th 2016 first Jacob Patrick Sullivan (JS) and later Sara Packer (SP) were transported from 429B Summit Ave, Horsham PA to Abington Hospital (AH) under very peculiar circumstances (see prior posts). On January 8, 2017, while a patient at AH, JS began confessing to the kidnapping/rape/murder of Grace Anastasia Packer (GP), implicating SP as a perpetrator and conspirator in this heinous and obscene crime. For an unknown timespan, JS and SP were both admitted patients inside AH during a very critical time in this case.

QUESTIONS:

> Do we know the TIME of admission for SP to AH, or the DATE/TIME of SP discharge from AH?

> During the timespan JS and SP were both patients inside AH, were each restrained (cuffed to the bed)?

> Is it feasible that SP (believed to be in better physical health after "Suicide Pact") could have communicated in any ways with JS while both were inside AH?

> Were there visitor logs for JS and SP? Mrs. F's experience working in AH is that there would NOT be visitor logs for either patient, UNLESS one/both were being treated as police holds, prisoners, etc. The emphasis is on documenting who was able to communicate with JS and SP during their inpatient stay at AH. Please note that JS was a patient in AH for 9 DAYS before he began to confess to any/all listeners on Sun Jan 8, 2017. Where was Sara Packer during those 9 days? Where was Katherine Allbright? Who were the "family visitors" to which JS confessed on Sun Dec 8?

In short, Jacob Sullivan entered Abington Hospital on Fri Dec 30, 2016 after allegedly writing a suicide note listing Sara Packer as his sole motivation for living, and "Sara in prison" as his motivation for suicide.

8 days later on Sun Jan 8, 2017, Jacob Sullivan began an "orgy of confession" implicating himself and Sara Packer and elevating this case to worldwide attention.

So, in that 9 day timespan inside Abington Hospital: WHAT HAPPENED TO JACOB PATRICK SULLIVAN?

David

Regarding your final question you posed - "what happened to Jacob Patrick Sullivan" during that 9 day time span...this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.::

Is it possible that, after over a week away from the influence of SP, not seeing her, talking to her, and letting the cold reality of the monstrous acts they'd committed really sink in..couldn't whatever he has that purports to be a conscience, talked to him?

Shook him into some semblance of reality and forced him clear of the "power" this obsession/love for Sp had over him, and he confessed out of shame, guilt and disgust?

I am in NO way negating the evil he's committed. He's a monster IMO but I can't accept that SP was just a willing participant - I think she is just as culpable, because I think she seeks out monsters to perform this awful acts because she likes it. She's got some type of powers of persuasion, some manipulative skills - and he's free of her for 9 days.

That can - potentially - have made the difference. Him


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[watergirl62]

I have been mulling this over also and have landed on the same page as you, simplycaustic. This guy *seems* like a tool. Who's playing who?

 

[david.r.feeney]

Child welfare investigation findings into Grace Packer's death might not be public for months
http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....cle_cbef58a6-dd8e-11e6-b3b2-3f3ec5e21fc2.html

The findings of mandatory state and local investigations into the circumstances leading up to the rape and murder of a 14-year-old Abington girl last year might not be released until summertime or later.

And even then, no one knows if the reports will provide insight or recommendations into how to prevent something like the crime from happening again.

The investigations are mandated under Pennsylvania Act 33, and their purpose is to provide the public with a window back in time to see if anything could have been done to prevent a death or near death. When the law was passed, child advocates praised Act 33 as providing new transparency to the normally shrouded world of the child welfare system. Without such public oversight, they had argued, it’s impossible to know if the system, its laws, regulations and entities are working the way they should.

Now, though, child advocates say the law has not worked as they had envisioned. They criticized the review process as murky and compliance with the law as minimal regarding timelines for the release of reports. They also said criticism of the child welfare system in the reports is rare, and family involvement with other agencies is largely ignored.

A lack of uniform standards for how an Act 33 review should be conducted allows counties a wide and varied interpretation of the level of detail and scrutiny contained in a report, said Frank Cervone, executive director of the Support Center for Child Advocates. The center provides legal help and social services advocacy for abused and neglected children in Philadelphia.

(modsnip)


Jo Ciavaglia: 215-949-4181; email: jciavaglia@calkins.com; Twitter: @JoCiavaglia

 

[Blair]

Please note that JS was a patient in AH for 9 DAYS before he began to confess to any/all listeners on Sun Jan 8, 2017. Where was Sara Packer during those 9 days? Where was Katherine Allbright? Who were the "family visitors" to which JS confessed on Sun Dec 8?

^^^

I didn't realize that much time passed between when he was admitted and his confession. Cripes. I would *assume*, based on zero evidence, that his ex-wife and children visited him in the hospital during that time. I hope to God that he did not confess to or in the presence of his kids.

I would LOVE to know what Allbright was doing during that time. I really haven't pinpointed my personal opinion on whether she holds responsibility in the crime yet; I'm honestly kinda rooting for her ignorance/innocence even though it seems unlikely and paints her as almost criminally oblivious as to the moral character of her boyfriend/girlfriend. But I want to imagine that Grace had at least ONE adult in her life, even temporarily, who wasn't actively plotting to hurt her.

Wasn't there an article that mentioned Allbright high-tailed it off to Jersey at some point after the suicide attempts?

As far as JS's voluntary confession goes, I wonder if it goes back to some of what he said in his suicide note. I don't have the text in front of me, but he said something like "they've made impossible for us to live" referring to (I guess) the police/media. I believe SP (or possibly both of them) had been named as persons on interest in the case by that time, so the scrutiny and attention were apparently really getting to him. Obviously the best way to avoid that is NOT to rape & murder someone, but if you just can't bring yourself to do that, then suicide seems like an out. But when your suicide attempt turns out not to be successful, then I can see confession as the last, good alternative.

 

[Blair]

I have been mulling this over also and have landed on the same page as you, simplycaustic. This guy *seems* like a tool. Who's playing who?

I wonder if it was a perfect storm of dysfunction. Like, SP wanted GP out of her life permanently (for whatever reason) & JS wanted to live out a very dark sexual fantasy -- and they both lacked the desire or ability to be a check or balance on the other. That's pure theory on my part, by the way.

You know what also always strikes me when I think about SP? Her ex-husband got imprisoned for sexual abuse of children, including their own daughter, in 2010. And she didn't get around to divorcing him until 2016. I know divorce is expensive, it's complicated, it's super hard emotionally and physically. But six YEARS seems like an excessive period of time to divest oneself of an jailed, unemployed, admitted rapist who probably doesn't have hidden bank accounts in Switzerland or anything complicated like that to slow you down. Add to that the fact that she didn't bother to get it done until she hooked up with JS -- and you get a pretty devastating portrait of a woman who is hellbent on choosing abusers.

 

[cvaldez1975]

ive never been evicted, but im just poor. lol

and those long evictions are usually career "milkers".

I'm not sure about other states, but I went through an eviction in another state and it did not take 6 months. it was less than two months between first notice and sheriff department "kick out."

So add that to my list of bad qualities.

(Although just for the record, I'm a good person who pays bills. I was stupid and didn't realize someone I trusted was an addict and they spent the rent money on meth instead of taking it to the landlord.)

 

[david.r.feeney]

...You know what also always strikes me when I think about SP? Her ex-husband got imprisoned for sexual abuse of children, including their own daughter, in 2010. And she didn't get around to divorcing him until 2016. I know divorce is expensive, it's complicated, it's super hard emotionally and physically. But six YEARS seems like an excessive period of time to divest oneself of an jailed, unemployed, admitted rapist who probably doesn't have hidden bank accounts in Switzerland or anything complicated like that to slow you down.

This stuck out to me and Mrs. F., too.

Also note: "A child welfare investigation found substantial evidence under the state’s civil Child Protective Services Law that Sara Packer committed child abuse “by omission,” for failing to recognize the sexual abuse was happening, but those actions didn’t constitute a criminal act, according to her court-appointed lawyer, Keith Williams. She was not charged in that case." http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....cle_cbef58a6-dd8e-11e6-b3b2-3f3ec5e21fc2.html

Sara Packer was comfortable being legally married to David Packer for 6 years while he was an imprisoned sex criminal... after "omitting" to report evidence of the sex abuse that put David Packer behind bars.

There's a Charles Manson at the center of this obscene family. And her name is Sara Packer.

David

 

[david.r.feeney]

... I would LOVE to know what Allbright was doing during that time... Wasn't there an article that mentioned Allbright high-tailed it off to Jersey at some point after the suicide attempts?

The only person with LESS media attention and journalistic focus in this case than Jacob Patrick Sullivan is Katherine Allbright. Why is that?

The most in-depth reporting I have read about KA is from the UK Daily Mail, a British news organization: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mom-s-ex-husband-child-sex-predator-too.html

Katherine Allbright

RE: ALLBRIGHT AND NEW JERSEY: The charging document describes that KA was interviewed by Detective Biggins of Horsham Twp Police on Fri Dec 30, 2016 at or about the time that Jacob Sullivan was transported from 429B Summit Ave to Abington Hospital ("Suicide Pact"). It states Allbright "had left the residence at approx 1045am to go to her parent's home in New Jersey. She advised that Jacob (JS) was playing a game on the television and was texting someone when she left for her parent's house. She stated that while she was out she attempted numerous times to contact Sullivan by texting his cellular phone that she had purchased for Sullivan, from her cellular phone 856 (redacted) but he did not respond back. When she (KA) arrived home at approximately 320-330pm she found Sullivan unresponsive in the bedroom of their home."

These are part of the peculiar circumstances of Fri Dec 30 2016 which led both Jacob Sullivan, then Sara Packer, to be transported from 429B Summit Ave to Abington Hospital ("Suicide Pact"), which will continue to be my focus.

RE: EVICTIONS, INCOME, ETC: A simple Internet "peoplesearch" for Jacob Patrick Sullivan shows at least one recent place of employment, listed as Dan Lepore And Sons,<modsnip> This is unconfirmed.

David

 

[kaen]

I have no idea is the third person of interest was party to this murder or not. I know a fair amount about the training involved in social work. In this relationship, we have two women with social work degrees, at least one with a masters degree. Sara Packer knew the key words and key actions to fly under the radar when it came to the ex-husband's crimes. She even wound up saying that she only found out after the child had turned 18, letting her off the criminal hook but not the ethical. The letters about in "Grace's" words are meant to show Grace's behavior degrading into self-harm or running away. Again, two women in this relationship know the power of that kind of document and supporting information. KA has worked for agencies that serve at-risk populations as well. I am not sure we will ever know the kind of collusion that occurred in this relationship among two or all three of them.

I am horrified at the role of social worker(s) in this murder. Makes me question ever family services worker I encounter.......

 

[watergirl62]

I wonder if it was a perfect storm of dysfunction. Like, SP wanted GP out of her life permanently (for whatever reason) & JS wanted to live out a very dark sexual fantasy -- and they both lacked the desire or ability to be a check or balance on the other. That's pure theory on my part, by the way.

Yes. This pretty much summarizes what I decided to leave out. Because, Grace.&#128546;

Eta: Not throwing shade on you, just saying.




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[Blair]

A new, troubling article:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...nvestigation-David-Packer-Rape-411699425.html

"Social Media Posts Reveal New Details on Mom Accused of Killing Daughter in Rape-Murder Fantasy"

And a comment on Allbright:

Now that the timeline has been made so much clearer to me (thanks to this thread), Allbright's 911 call makes way more sense. She said:

“I don’t know if you have watched the news lately,” the woman told the dispatcher, according to the affidavit. “Someone we were involved with was recently...It’s a big mess. It’s a big mess and I don’t really know how to explain it. But oh my God.”

I had previously been assuming that "we" meant SP, JS, and KA and that the "someone we were involved with" meant GP possibly. (I had been reading "involved" in the "someone we knew" sense, not the "romantic involvement" sense.) But KA made those statements after she found JS and before she found SP. So the "we" is probably JS and KA -- and the person they "were" involved with was SP. It's interesting she used the past-tense there. I don't want to put a lot of emphasis on it b/c that's a really stressful call to make & grammar takes a back seat in that situation. But it's just something to ponder -- that there might have been some kind of split between them.

 

[david.r.feeney]

A new, troubling article:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...nvestigation-David-Packer-Rape-411699425.html

"Social Media Posts Reveal New Details on Mom Accused of Killing Daughter in Rape-Murder Fantasy"

And a comment on Allbright:

Now that the timeline has been made so much clearer to me (thanks to this thread), Allbright's 911 call makes way more sense. She said:

“I don’t know if you have watched the news lately,” the woman told the dispatcher, according to the affidavit. “Someone we were involved with was recently...It’s a big mess. It’s a big mess and I don’t really know how to explain it. But oh my God.”

I had previously been assuming that "we" meant SP, JS, and KA and that the "someone we were involved with" meant GP possibly. (I had been reading "involved" in the "someone we knew" sense, not the "romantic involvement" sense.) But KA made those statements after she found JS and before she found SP. So the "we" is probably JS and KA -- and the person they "were" involved with was SP. It's interesting she used the past-tense there. I don't want to put a lot of emphasis on it b/c that's a really stressful call to make & grammar takes a back seat in that situation. But it's just something to ponder -- that there might have been some kind of split between them.

Bingo. During "911 Call 1", KA may not have been talking in the past tense about a deceased Grace Packer. KA may have been talking about Sara Packer.

Also consider that KA, at the time of making "911 Call 1" about unresponsive Jacob Sullivan, may have found and already read the handwritten Suicide Note (JSNOTE) allegedly written by JS.

Reading that note may have unnerved KA as much as finding JS, since Sara Packer was the only female named in the note and KA wasn't even mentioned.

David

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[david.r.feeney]

NBC Philadelphia reporter Deanna Durante is breaking Sara Packer original reporting on Twitter.

[video=twitter;824243659558318082]https://twitter.com/deannadurante/status/824243659558318082[/video]

https://twitter.com/deannadurante

 

[david.r.feeney]

Interesting article on the Grace Packer case from the professional social services perspective. David

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org...ll-never-surrender-their-horror-stories/24280

 

[Knox]

Great article DRF, thanks for sharing.

Not sure the viewpoint holds true though. IMO, there are an equal amount of children dying in intact homes at the hands of their parents or parental SO. In many of them, there has been contact with social services, but no action had been taken.

 

[Mollyandme]

Bingo. During "911 Call 1", KA may not have been talking in the past tense about a deceased Grace Packer. KA may have been talking about Sara Packer.

Also consider that KA, at the time of making "911 Call 1" about unresponsive Jacob Sullivan, may have found and already read the handwritten Suicide Note (JSNOTE) allegedly written by JS.

Reading that note may have unnerved KA as much as finding JS, since Sara Packer was the only female named in the note and KA wasn't even mentioned.

David

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I think it's possible this was the case. The daily mail article said KA worked for Delaware county. I live basically right on the border of Montgomery county and Delaware county and I think the commute from Quaker town to anywhere in Delaware county everyday would be tedious. Without traffic it's a really long commute and There's no good way to get there that doesn't involve major rush hour traffic. Maybe it's possible KA really didn't know about what these monsters did to Grace? Maybe she wasn't living or staying at the Quaker town home everyday? I'm not standing up for her at all just wondering if maybe she really didn't know. I also noticed that the only job listing that is currently listed on the website for the organization KA worked for is a listing for the exact job KA had. Not sure if that's a coincidence or not.


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