PA - Grace Packer, 14, murdered, Abington, 4 July 2016 *Killer died*

[Kitty66]

would be something if they did know each other. [FONT=&quot]Kenneth Fenske, lived 11 minutes 6.2 miles from the house in Richland twp/Quakertown Grace died in.[/FONT]

 

[david.r.feeney]

Wow... that is amazing! May I ask your source for that? Much appreciated! David

would be something if they did know each other. [FONT=&amp]Kenneth Fenske, lived 11 minutes 6.2 miles from the house in Richland twp/Quakertown Grace died in.[/FONT]

 

[Kitty66]

All I did was mapquest from his house in Milford/Bethlehem Rd. to Cherry Rd. where she passed. I live in the area.

 

[david.r.feeney]

All I did was mapquest from his house in Milford/Bethlehem Rd. to Cherry Rd. where she passed. I live in the area.

I see. Was this person's address published in the article? I didn't notice that. Thanks for clarifying.

Would you be familiar with the home directly next to the Cherry Road house? When I visited the 990 E. Cherry Road house, it seemed to be part of a larger property, with a larger house, barn, etc. next to it. There was also a little open kiosk next to the road with kindling/firewood for sale using the honor system.

Regardless, thanks for the details.

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[theirmommy]

Preying via furry culture is what I meant. Your son is old enough to get what is going on but I can certainly see young kids with no adult monitoring of net activity getting lured by furries.

My 12yo stepdaughter is pretty naive and forever needs to feed her extremely imaginative mind. We have to watch her activity pretty closely. Scary!

I wonder how old these victims are.

Appears to be that one victim mentioned in that article was 8 at the time.

 

[Kitty66]

All I did was mapquest from his house in Milford/Bethlehem Rd. to Cherry Rd. where she passed. I live in the area.

 

[Kitty66]

Depending if you take a specific back road, it is [FONT=&quot]7min[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]3.7mi[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Kitty66]

I see. Was this person's address published in the article? I didn't notice that. Thanks for clarifying.

Would you be familiar with the home directly next to the Cherry Road house? When I visited the 990 E. Cherry Road house, it seemed to be part of a larger property, with a larger house, barn, etc. next to it. There was also a little open kiosk next to the road with kindling/firewood for sale using the honor system.

Regardless, thanks for the details.

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No, not familiar with that particular house, sorry, to be honest, the road is too rural for my liking, I only use it when necessary. Also, yes his address was in an article,

• 2724 N Old Bethlehem Pike, Quakertown, PA

 

[david.r.feeney]

No, not familiar with that particular house, sorry, to be honest, the road is too rural for my liking, I only use it when necessary.

Yes, very rural and in the winter, kind of ominous. Mrs. F and I got the creeps driving there. And while I was taking pictures of 990 E. Cherry Road house (standing in the road), the tenants of the adjacent farmhouse were not, shall we say, very welcoming. You couldn't pay me to drive down that road at night.

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[Kitty66]

ty, lol, I did not want to possibly insult anyone by using the word creepy, in case they were on here, however you nailed it......Very creepy.

 

[kdg411]

I see. Was this person's address published in the article? I didn't notice that. Thanks for clarifying.

Would you be familiar with the home directly next to the Cherry Road house? When I visited the 990 E. Cherry Road house, it seemed to be part of a larger property, with a larger house, barn, etc. next to it. There was also a little open kiosk next to the road with kindling/firewood for sale using the honor system.

Regardless, thanks for the details.

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OT this person owns a business in the area and the address is published in that listing.

Are you thinking this group was associated with the POI's for this case?

 

[david.r.feeney]

I was discussing the home/farmhouse adjacent to 990 E CHERRY ROAD QUAKERTOWN PA house, which appears to be part of a larger property, which became apparent when I drove past the location. Perhaps the adjacent farmhouse were the landlords for SP/JS/KA? Speculation on my part.

KITTY66 remarked that KENNETH FENSKE, a POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address in Quakertown PA (2724 N Old Bethlehem Pike, Quakertown, PA) which is very close to 990 E CHERRY ROAD (Grace Packer Murder Scene). GOOGLE MAPS confirms the proximity of KENNETH FENSKE address to Grace Packer Murder Scene. See https://goo.gl/maps/EKGZnkGib5L2

Prior, I remarked that JEFFREY HARVEY, a POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address near the location where Grace Packer's remains were discovered. Jeffrey Harvey, 40, lives in West Wyoming, Luzerne County, PA. Grace Packer's dismembered body was discovered near Francis Walter Dam in Luzerne County, PA on Oct. 31, 2016. GOOGLE MAPS confirms that Francis Walter Dam is 30 minute drive from West Wyoming in Luzerne County, PA http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...407892985.html

OT this person owns a business in the area and the address is published in that listing.

Are you thinking this group was associated with the POI's for this case?

 

[kdg411]

I was discussing the home/farmhouse adjacent to 990 E CHERRY ROAD QUAKERTOWN PA house, which appears to be part of a larger property, which became apparent when I drove past the location. Perhaps the adjacent farmhouse were the landlords for SP/JS/KA? Speculation on my part.

KITTY66 remarked that KENNETH FENSKE, a POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address in Quakertown PA (2724 N Old Bethlehem Pike, Quakertown, PA) which is very close to 990 E CHERRY ROAD (Grace Packer Murder Scene). GOOGLE MAPS confirms the proximity of KENNETH FENSKE address to Grace Packer Murder Scene. See https://goo.gl/maps/EKGZnkGib5L2

Prior, I remarked that JEFFREY HARVEY, a POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address near the location where Grace Packer's remains were discovered. Jeffrey Harvey, 40, lives in West Wyoming, Luzerne County, PA. Grace Packer's dismembered body was discovered near Francis Walter Dam in Luzerne County, PA on Oct. 31, 2016. GOOGLE MAPS confirms that Francis Walter Dam is 30 minute drive from West Wyoming in Luzerne County, PA http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...407892985.html

Thanks for the thread recap, however my question was do you think this group is related to the POI's in Grace's case? Their location, I understand however what is the relevance, as you may see it, to this case?

 

[watergirl62]

Appears to be that one victim mentioned in that article was 8 at the time.

8? Sigh... Thank you. I have a hard time reading the details because it is all so horrific. That poor kid. No words.

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[david.r.feeney]

Thanks for the thread recap, however my question was do you think this group is related to the POI's in Grace's case? Their location, I understand however what is the relevance, as you may see it, to this case?

OK, understood. Just fyi, part of my "style" is to share what I think are related facts, then listen to others here about any connections/speculations they may share. I am new to Websleuths so I (try) to read as much as I type. Try!

So here goes:

SPECULATION: SARA PACKER/JACOB SULLIVAN HAD WIDER NETWORK OF KNOWN ASSOCIATES/ACCOMPLICES Media reports source LEE KONELL, the Abington, PA area landlord for Sara Packer and Jacob Sullivan, describing SP/JS as "nightmare" tenants. LEE KONELL also stated that he witnessed:

1) Sleeping arrangements for 8 people, far more than allowed. Konell reports "mattresses on the floor" blocking doorways. Sounds to me like SP/JS were hosting many people who needed sleeping arrangements. Who might those people have been?

2) A "young man" and "a woman with a huge duffel" who "stayed for days at a time". There is strong speculation the "duffel woman" may be Katherine Allbright. Who might the "young man" seen by LEE KONELL have been?

SPECULATION: WHY QUAKERTOWN? SARA PACKER/JACOB SULLIVAN CHOSE A HOME IN QUAKERTOWN PA, 40+ MILES FROM THEIR PRIOR AREA OF RESIDENCE, FOR REASONS THAT RELATED TO, AND PERHAPS FACILITATED, CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES. AFAIK, there are three addresses of critical importance in the Grace Packer charging documents. I have visited each location. Directions between all three locations can be viewed at https://goo.gl/maps/DoqU4Kicy552

They are...

819 Tennis Ave, Glenside, PA 19038
429B Summit Ave, Jenkintown, PA 19046
990 E Cherry Rd, Quakertown, PA 18951

Tennis Ave and Summit Ave are 2.9 miles from each other. Cherry Rd (the Grace Packer Murder Scene) is 42 miles away from Summit and Tennis Ave locations.

Let that sink in.

Who here has driven the 40+ miles from the Tennis Ave/Summit Ave area to 990 E Cherry Road? I have, and it's not fun. Its a solid hour of stoplights and stop/go traffic hassles (and Mrs. F and I did it on a Sunday afternoon).

And lastly, the following recent facts:

JEFFREY HARVEY, POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address near the location where Grace Packer's remains were discovered. Jeffrey Harvey, 40, lives in West Wyoming, Luzerne County, PA. On Oct. 31, 2016, Grace Packer's dismembered body was discovered near Francis Walter Dam in Luzerne County, PA, which is 21 MILES/30 MINUTES from West Wyoming in Luzerne County, PA. See https://goo.gl/maps/nahdionjLHE2

KENNETH FENSKE, POI in "PA FURRY SEX RING" has an address in Quakertown PA (2724 N Old Bethlehem Pike, Quakertown, PA) which is 4 MILES/8 MINUTES from 990 E CHERRY ROAD (Grace Packer Murder Scene). See https://goo.gl/maps/EKGZnkGib5L2

So, I would ask again: WHY QUAKERTOWN?

 

[four4rock]

990 E CHERRY ROAD...

https://hotpads.com/990-e-cherry-rd-quakertown-pa-18951-vmpr7k/pad

 

[david.r.feeney]

WOW! 23 Photos Inside 990 E CHERRY ROAD from June 11 2015!

THANKS FOR THIS!

990 E CHERRY ROAD...

https://hotpads.com/990-e-cherry-rd-quakertown-pa-18951-vmpr7k/pad

 

[Blair]

1) Sleeping arrangements for 8 people, far more than allowed. Konell reports "mattresses on the floor" blocking doorways. Sounds to me like SP/JS were hosting many people who needed sleeping arrangements. Who might those people have been?

2) A "young man" and "a woman with a huge duffel" who "stayed for days at a time". There is strong speculation the "duffel woman" may be Katherine Allbright. Who might the "young man" seen by LEE KONELL have been?

^^^

It's striking to me just how "transient" SP & family really were. (I think someone -- maybe one of the LE officials? -- described their lifestyle that way in a prior article that was posted here.) I did my own share of apartment hopping when I was younger & more unemployed & trying to make ends meet -- but this seems like a more extreme degree of that, plus with kids in tow, which has to be hard. We know of at least three residences that JS/SP & maybe KA resided in between Nov 14 and Dec 16, at least two of which ended up with the landlords being so pissed off that they either evicted them or ended up talking to the press. To me, that suggests some chronic under-employment or money issues stemming from some other source, which might mean they were sharing space in order to bring in more money or split the bills between more people, etc.

But I think it's also worth remembering -- and this is what concerns me most about that landlord story -- that JS has kids of his own. Given his age, his kids could be in their teens/20s and so I wonder if they were any of the people seen coming in & out. Or locked in rooms. (Plus he left the suicide note at his residence -- presumably b/c that's where he made the attempt, but also maybe b/c they lived their part or full time and would find it there.)

And then you add in the poly/open relationship factor -- and there's a third possible source of people coming in & out of the apartment.

On a slightly different subject -- anyone else notice how all of the young people who are on the receiving end of abusive treatment (that's been reported) by SP/JS & family are girls? David Packer molests the young women in his care, SP doesn't intervene to help the young women, SP hits & verbally abuses Grace, SP & JS lock a young woman in her room and have her sleeping on a mattress on the floor, SP & JS rape and murder GP. And meanwhile the reports from the former foster children in SP's care are that GP's younger brother was treated with kindness. (Don't get me wrong, I believe he was certainly mistreated in a different way and my heart goes out to that kid and I hope he is protected and with loved ones -- I just find it striking & concerning that it seems like it was a lot more unsafe to be a little girl around these folks than a little boy.)

 

[Blair]

990 E CHERRY ROAD...

https://hotpads.com/990-e-cherry-rd-quakertown-pa-18951-vmpr7k/pad

It took me a second to realize those photos are from 2015. I was sitting here shaking my head and wishing godspeed to the brave person trying to rent that place out right now.

 

[david.r.feeney]

Correction: The 429B address should read...

429B Summit Ave, Horsham, PA 19044 (Yes, there are two 429B Summit Avenues in the area).

The three addresses in the charging document are:

819 Tennis Ave, Glenside, PA 19038
429B Summit Ave, Horsham, PA 19044 (5.2 miles away from Tennis Ave)
990 E Cherry Rd, Quakertown, PA 18951 (44.2 miles away from Tennis Ave)

and the Google Map showing their locations is also updated at https://goo.gl/maps/dc1bQmHS8uN2

Apologies for my error. David

819 Tennis Ave, Glenside, PA 19038
429B Summit Ave, Jenkintown, PA 19046
990 E Cherry Rd, Quakertown, PA 18951