PA - Helen Miller, 19, stabbed to death by sister, 14, Manheim Twp., Feb 2021

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Hereshecomes75 said:
Interesting point about her communicating with someone presumably before the murder. That person called the police shortly after they responded to the murder—I was wondering if/how they knew something was happening. Did they live close? Did they hear from her after the murder too?
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I wonder if it was a hotline?
 
TTF14 said:
I wonder if it was a hotline?
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Most hotlines are confidential, I think...otherwise, many folks likely wouldn’t feel safe calling to disclose their problems. I suspect that whoever CM called might turn out to have been a close friend or maybe a boyfriend or girlfriend—someone in her peer group, anyway, but this is mostly due to the impression I got from MSM that the person who CM talked to late Sunday/early Monday had only reported their disturbing conversation to the authorities the next day, after HM had been murdered. I could see a young teen not immediately realizing the significance of their conversation with CM, maybe chalking her threats up to hyperbole or “drama,” and then, upon learning of the murder, going to police to recount their call with CM.

Then again, I wonder if it might turn out to be a counselor/therapist (though there is no evidence that CM had one); in the state of PA, those types of professionals would, I believe, be considered “mandated reporters” and thereby required to contact Childline or the local authorities if their client was threatening to kill someone or themselves, as it sounds like CM was that evening. But I would hope a counselor/therapist would’ve done so BEFORE the threatened actions occurred...I don’t know how much time elapsed between CM getting off the phone and actually attacking her sister, though, so it seems plausible that a mandated reporter could’ve called into Childline/police right away and it still would’ve been too late to head off the tragedy.
All of the above is MOO!
 
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A while back I worked with adult disabled adults. There were annual meetings with the guardian(s,) usually family members.

Luckily, it was never my responsibility to lead the discussion with adult siblings when it was time to transfer guardianship from aging parents to the sibs. At that time in my state, if the elderly guardian dies -- there must be a legally appointed successor guardian or the county Public Administrator automatically becomes the guardian with control of the individual and of all the property and money. I've watched degreed professionals with successful adult children come completely unglued about this! Completely unglued in a nice bright cheery conference room, with coffee and iced tea on the table.

Eventually, the younger sibling in this family would have been the legal guardian of the older. Was this too much for the younger that night? Snowed in, during a dragging-on dark winter with adolescence in the mix?


Horrible for all the family members, just horrible.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
ChatteringBirds said:
I would have liked a "Warning - Disturbing photos in article" warning on that one. I don't think I'll be clicking on the Daily Mail links ever again.

To me it shows this girl was highly disturbed. She didn't just "snap." She needs a lot of help, for a long time, if she's possibly going to be rehabilitated.

All IMO.
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Disturbing is an understatement.

That freaked me out. Especially the giraffe.
 
The bloody pics from the DM article are highly disturbing. The bloody stuffed animal, against the tree, had to be carried out by the suspect and posed there. There was also a bloody latex glove. Now, I’m assuming she wore gloves while she stabbed her sister to death. IMO
 
This is really hitting home because I worked with children/young adults with special needs for years - including a lovely HMS student (Helen was attending HMS). I witnessed the impact - positive and negative - of an older child’s disability on younger siblings. I remember the siblings’ intense and pervasive anxiety - quite understandable as they often witnessed the eldest choke, struggle to be understood, suffer fall injuries, have seizures, etc.

I’m not giving CM a pass. And I haven’t ventured onto any of her social media. Watching someone you love have so many scary episodes can be traumatizing. This may have been CM’s life. JMO.
 
K9Enzo said:
The bloody pics from the DM article are highly disturbing. The bloody stuffed animal, against the tree, had to be carried out by the suspect and posed there. There was also a bloody latex glove. Now, I’m assuming she wore gloves while she stabbed her sister to death. IMO
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I'd agree but the police witnessed her rubbing her hands in the snow to get the blood off. Still she could have.
 
The snow/glove/giraffe video was not on her tik tok account when I checked her account the other day. I am no tik tok expert, but I’d view that one with skepticism. Either it is real and was deleted or it’s fake or it came from another account. JMO.

FWIW- Media reports on items collected with the search warrant mentioned a rabbit toy but didn’t mention a giraffe toy or glove to my knowledge. Doesn’t mean they weren’t collected, but worth keeping in mind.
 
MoeInVA said:
The snow/glove/giraffe video was not on her tik tok account when I checked her account the other day. I am no tik tok expert, but I’d view that one with skepticism. Either it is real and was deleted or it’s fake or it came from another account. JMO.

FWIW- Media reports on items collected with the search warrant mentioned a rabbit toy but didn’t mention a giraffe toy or glove to my knowledge. Doesn’t mean they weren’t collected, but worth keeping in mind.
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This is important, thank you. I scanned the article and pics. These pics might be unrelated to the crime. They are also not LE released pics. IMO
 
MoeInVA said:
The snow/glove/giraffe video was not on her tik tok account when I checked her account the other day. I am no tik tok expert, but I’d view that one with skepticism. Either it is real and was deleted or it’s fake or it came from another account. JMO.

FWIW- Media reports on items collected with the search warrant mentioned a rabbit toy but didn’t mention a giraffe toy or glove to my knowledge. Doesn’t mean they weren’t collected, but worth keeping in mind.
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And there's no snow in the giraffe pic, so it can't be recent.
 
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Shamrock1 said:
This is really hitting home because I worked with children/young adults with special needs for years - including a lovely HMS student (Helen was attending HMS). I witnessed the impact - positive and negative - of an older child’s disability on younger siblings. I remember the siblings’ intense and pervasive anxiety - quite understandable as they often witnessed the eldest choke, struggle to be understood, suffer fall injuries, have seizures, etc.

I’m not giving CM a pass. And I haven’t ventured onto any of her social media. Watching someone you love have so many scary episodes can be traumatizing. This may have been CM’s life. JMO.
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Thanks for posting, @Shamrock1 -- it does put a perspective out there that some of us may not have considered or even known to exist -- I am one of them. I can certainly see the strain it could put on all members of the family, of course.

Maybe Claire was asked/told to share a bedroom with her sister (did they share a bedroom?), or a bedroom close to her sister, to make sure she was not in pain or in a life-threatening situation. Perhaps that pressure prompted her to seek things online that progressed to a very unhealthy place which brought on her actions that horrible night. She was just 14 years old. SMH.
 
MoeInVA said:
I have no idea what this question “til toss” means. Like I said, I’m not a tik tok expert so if you have more insights to share, please do!
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I think OP meant "tik tok" pictures. They are highly disturbing. I wonder if there were any warning signs or if her parents were aware she was having fantasies about killing. What a tragedy.
 
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