PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

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The jury shouldn't expect "damning evidence" to convict, but proof "beyond reasonable doubt." That doesn't require it be caught on video for me. But I would need things to add up to it not being a baby accidentally falling from a bassinet (or whatever he was placed in) beyond a reasonable doubt. (Edited by me to rewrite confusing sentence.) I would need to have no "reasonable doubt" that she did indeed harm him violently.

If I did have that doubt, I think I would still likely convict on lesser charges that were proven BARD, depending on what the law said about those charges.

Personally I would be curious about motive but not require that there be one I could "understand." Because sometimes people simply commit violence because they have an impulse to do so, IMO.
Words carry different connotations to different people. For me, proof beyond a reasonable doubt IS "damning proof." Others may feel differently but for me, damning proof does NOT mean proof beyond any doubt.

While I agree knowledge of motive is not essential, to convict on any of the charges I'm pretty sure I'd have to be fully convinced the babies' injuries were done intentionally or knowingly by NV. And having an examining doctor say the injury to LK was not "natural" or "accidental" certainly wouldn't be enough for me to convict of homicide without strong medical evidence from other sources. While the examining doctor(s) must be heard and their credibility judged, other experts will play a big role too.

I feel the same way about the assault charges as it seems by PA law (see link below) those require that the person intentionally or knowingly did the act. So it's not a matter of some sort of "involuntary" assault (although "extreme recklessness" could be involved.) So I don't think jurors ought to convict if they feel NV must have been involved "somehow" but they aren't sure how. Personally I am not persuaded that since LK was hurt, then the injury to AK must have been intentional abuse. Nor do I think NV ought to be convicted merely because if she didn't do it, who did? (It seems to me without knowledge of any real evidence, that's where the public case against NV stands right now-- if not NV, then who?)


NV is also charged with child endangerment. That's a bit murkier to me. I'm NOT suggesting the parents ought to be charged. But I could see situations arising where a parent MIGHT be charged with child endangerment if he/she left a child with an unsuitable person.

The definition of child endangerment in PA [bold added by me]:

"...a parent or any other person, who violates duty of protection, support or care and thus knowingly endangers the child’s welfare is guilty of child endangerment."

Thus it seems clear the person must have known she/he was endangering the child. Examples from the link below include DUI with child in car, maintaining a "squalid" home, leaving a child unattended in a car...


I'd have to be convinced NV had intent or knowledge to convict here. While some may argue leaving LK unstrapped in a bouncer chair automatically endangered him and NV should have "known better," that's a real stretch for me. She just met the children that day or the day before. She is childless herself. She may never have seen a bouncer chair before.

We also don't know if the parents' usual practice was to use the bouncer chair's strap. And many people commenting on WS have argued LK couldn't have rolled himself out of a chair like that at 6-weeks old even if he was unstrapped. So if he did, in fact, roll out, should NV have known that was a possibility even though it sounds like nobody else knew? It's hard for me to see how she should have known. Others have argued that a chair like that should never be put anywhere but on the floor. We don't know where the chair was typically placed (nor do we know for sure where it was when LK supposedly fell out) but in my experience, unlike older children who are starting to crawl or are pulling up on furniture, 6-week old babies are NOT put on the floor routinely. So if the family's usual routine was to use those chairs say, on a low coffee table in front of the sofa, and that's where the chair was when LK fell, does that make NV guilty of endangering him?

We don't know what the evidence is for any of the charges. It may be very strong but personally I do not believe that simply because the state is seeking the DP for homicide, they must have a slam-dunk case with very strong evidence. I think the reasoning given to justify the DP is quite iffy (using AK's injuries as evidence of NV's past pattern of criminal behavior) & don't think we can make any assumptions about the evidence. And the justification for the DP is not evidence/proof itself.

We don't really know much of what NV said to LE or what she said to the parents (at any time that day.) We also know very little of what the parents have said to anybody. And it's possible some of what we think we know has been reported inaccurately. For example, it's been reported NK told 911 LK fell out of his bassinet. It's also been reported she told the parents that when she called them at the hospital before calling 911. We can't know what she really said vs what people heard vs what reporters think she said. At any rate, we have no sworn testimony nor have we heard the recording of the 911 call. And we know the parents weren't out on a "date night" when either child was injured. But that is what was reported earlier. We also know the parents married in August 2023. So the idea NV came all the way from the West Coast to babysit so they could celebrate their wedding anniversary in June 2024 (as has been reported) is just plain silly. Finally, I think it's quite possible some of what we think we know about the circumstances leading NV to photograph AK's injury may not be accurate either.

Further, we pretty much know nothing about how the twins' were typically cared for. That matters, not to blame the parents, but because IF NV was continuing with the usual care, and something unexpected DID happen, it's hard for me to see NV's actions as criminal.
MOO
 
Words carry different connotations to different people. For me, proof beyond a reasonable doubt IS "damning proof." Others may feel differently but for me, damning proof does NOT mean proof beyond any doubt.

While I agree knowledge of motive is not essential, to convict on any of the charges I'm pretty sure I'd have to be fully convinced the babies' injuries were done intentionally or knowingly by NV. And having an examining doctor say the injury to LK was not "natural" or "accidental" certainly wouldn't be enough for me to convict of homicide without strong medical evidence from other sources. While the examining doctor(s) must be heard and their credibility judged, other experts will play a big role too.

I feel the same way about the assault charges as it seems by PA law (see link below) those require that the person intentionally or knowingly did the act. So it's not a matter of some sort of "involuntary" assault (although "extreme recklessness" could be involved.) So I don't think jurors ought to convict if they feel NV must have been involved "somehow" but they aren't sure how. Personally I am not persuaded that since LK was hurt, then the injury to AK must have been intentional abuse. Nor do I think NV ought to be convicted merely because if she didn't do it, who did? (It seems to me without knowledge of any real evidence, that's where the public case against NV stands right now-- if not NV, then who?)


NV is also charged with child endangerment. That's a bit murkier to me. I'm NOT suggesting the parents ought to be charged. But I could see situations arising where a parent MIGHT be charged with child endangerment if he/she left a child with an unsuitable person.

The definition of child endangerment in PA [bold added by me]:

"...a parent or any other person, who violates duty of protection, support or care and thus knowingly endangers the child’s welfare is guilty of child endangerment."

Thus it seems clear the person must have known she/he was endangering the child. Examples from the link below include DUI with child in car, maintaining a "squalid" home, leaving a child unattended in a car...


I'd have to be convinced NV had intent or knowledge to convict here. While some may argue leaving LK unstrapped in a bouncer chair automatically endangered him and NV should have "known better," that's a real stretch for me. She just met the children that day or the day before. She is childless herself. She may never have seen a bouncer chair before.

We also don't know if the parents' usual practice was to use the bouncer chair's strap. And many people commenting on WS have argued LK couldn't have rolled himself out of a chair like that at 6-weeks old even if he was unstrapped. So if he did, in fact, roll out, should NV have known that was a possibility even though it sounds like nobody else knew? It's hard for me to see how she should have known. Others have argued that a chair like that should never be put anywhere but on the floor. We don't know where the chair was typically placed (nor do we know for sure where it was when LK supposedly fell out) but in my experience, unlike older children who are starting to crawl or are pulling up on furniture, 6-week old babies are NOT put on the floor routinely. So if the family's usual routine was to use those chairs say, on a low coffee table in front of the sofa, and that's where the chair was when LK fell, does that make NV guilty of endangering him?

We don't know what the evidence is for any of the charges. It may be very strong but personally I do not believe that simply because the state is seeking the DP for homicide, they must have a slam-dunk case with very strong evidence. I think the reasoning given to justify the DP is quite iffy (using AK's injuries as evidence of NV's past pattern of criminal behavior) & don't think we can make any assumptions about the evidence. And the justification for the DP is not evidence/proof itself.

We don't really know much of what NV said to LE or what she said to the parents (at any time that day.) We also know very little of what the parents have said to anybody. And it's possible some of what we think we know has been reported inaccurately. For example, it's been reported NK told 911 LK fell out of his bassinet. It's also been reported she told the parents that when she called them at the hospital before calling 911. We can't know what she really said vs what people heard vs what reporters think she said. At any rate, we have no sworn testimony nor have we heard the recording of the 911 call. And we know the parents weren't out on a "date night" when either child was injured. But that is what was reported earlier. We also know the parents married in August 2023. So the idea NV came all the way from the West Coast to babysit so they could celebrate their wedding anniversary in June 2024 (as has been reported) is just plain silly. Finally, I think it's quite possible some of what we think we know about the circumstances leading NV to photograph AK's injury may not be accurate either.

Further, we pretty much know nothing about how the twins' were typically cared for. That matters, not to blame the parents, but because IF NV was continuing with the usual care, and something unexpected DID happen, it's hard for me to see NV's actions as criminal.
MOO
Thanks for these really good observations— much appreciated food for thought!
 
We don't know what the evidence is for any of the charges. It may be very strong but personally I do not believe that simply because the state is seeking the DP for homicide, they must have a slam-dunk case with very strong evidence. I think the reasoning given to justify the DP is quite iffy (using AK's injuries as evidence of NV's past pattern of criminal behavior) & don't think we can make any assumptions about the evidence. And the justification for the DP is not evidence/proof itself.
SBM
Very important points; I am fully in agreement.
 
I don't know the exact words to express my sorrow for the loss and confusion Baby Ari must feel. Not having words, or even any understanding, to suddenly , after 9 months together in their Mother's womb , and then after six weeks living in the world with their parents , Ari's twin brother is just gone ! Poor little Ari, I can't begin to imagine what this has been like for him. My heart breaks for that beautiful little baby, where did his brother go ? How does this feel for Ari, when he has no way to express, or even comprehend, the grief and sense of loss he must feel . When he reaches out, or kicks, or when he is just laying down, where did that other little baby, who was always right there beside him, touching up against him, where did Baby Leon go ? I feel such sadness for Ari, it has been haunting me since I read about this. The sense of loss, and the loss of the constant bond with his twin brother, was just ripped away. And Ari cant understand . I live in the Pittsburgh area; the in depth and extra news coverage has really affected me.
 
I don't know the exact words to express my sorrow for the loss and confusion Baby Ari must feel. Not having words, or even any understanding, to suddenly , after 9 months together in their Mother's womb , and then after six weeks living in the world with their parents , Ari's twin brother is just gone ! Poor little Ari, I can't begin to imagine what this has been like for him. My heart breaks for that beautiful little baby, where did his brother go ? How does this feel for Ari, when he has no way to express, or even comprehend, the grief and sense of loss he must feel . When he reaches out, or kicks, or when he is just laying down, where did that other little baby, who was always right there beside him, touching up against him, where did Baby Leon go ? I feel such sadness for Ari, it has been haunting me since I read about this. The sense of loss, and the loss of the constant bond with his twin brother, was just ripped away. And Ari cant understand . I live in the Pittsburgh area; the in depth and extra news coverage has really affected me.
Yes, this is tragic and just so sad. They looked so cute together in the pictures, and I just keep wishing that the parents had asked NV to come with Leon to the ER, even though that really only makes sense in retrospect.

It’s just that there would be 2 live babies now, and who knows about charges? It’s so bizarre and horrifying in the extreme, to be at the hospital with one son, and then to have the uninjured baby who you think is ok, die? They were so worried about Ari, but in the end he was the one who was ok. It’s a nightmare beyond belief.
 
Yes, this is tragic and just so sad. They looked so cute together in the pictures, and I just keep wishing that the parents had asked NV to come with Leon to the ER, even though that really only makes sense in retrospect.

It’s just that there would be 2 live babies now, and who knows about charges? It’s so bizarre and horrifying in the extreme, to be at the hospital with one son, and then to have the uninjured baby who you think is ok, die? They were so worried about Ari, but in the end he was the one who was ok. It’s a nightmare beyond belief.
But - and I don't know if I believe this or not - if NV and Leon had also gone to the hospital that night, what then? Maybe Ari's injuries wouldn't have been deemed suspicious. And there would be 2 living babies. And no-one would distrust NV. So she possibly would do more babysitting for the family. But that might be a mistake. Maybe NV would strike again.
 
But - and I don't know if I believe this or not - if NV and Leon had also gone to the hospital that night, what then? Maybe Ari's injuries wouldn't have been deemed suspicious. And there would be 2 living babies. And no-one would distrust NV. So she possibly would do more babysitting for the family. But that might be a mistake. Maybe NV would strike again.
If what she did was intentional— and I’m still wavering on that — then, yes. Something may have happened at a later date.

On the other hand: If it was all just an accident ( perhaps there is in fact an alternative explanation for Ari’s injuries, and maybe Leon’s death was a tragic accident) then you have to wonder why fate would have been so horribly against all 5 of them that night.

If it turns out through evidence and testimony beyond reasonable doubt that NV was a psychopath who wanted to harm these babies and their parents, then this will look very different to me. I’m just not sure.
 
AFAIK, Pennsylvania doesn’t allow live-streaming of criminal courtroom sessions. But media will be waiting outside for interviews, assuming no gag order. We will have to rely on media reports, and transcripts. I may try to go Friday.

Please keep us posted if you go tomorrow— would love to hear your thoughts about the proceedings!
 
I don't know the exact words to express my sorrow for the loss and confusion Baby Ari must feel. Not having words, or even any understanding, to suddenly , after 9 months together in their Mother's womb , and then after six weeks living in the world with their parents , Ari's twin brother is just gone ! Poor little Ari, I can't begin to imagine what this has been like for him. My heart breaks for that beautiful little baby, where did his brother go ? How does this feel for Ari, when he has no way to express, or even comprehend, the grief and sense of loss he must feel . When he reaches out, or kicks, or when he is just laying down, where did that other little baby, who was always right there beside him, touching up against him, where did Baby Leon go ? I feel such sadness for Ari, it has been haunting me since I read about this. The sense of loss, and the loss of the constant bond with his twin brother, was just ripped away. And Ari cant understand . I live in the Pittsburgh area; the in depth and extra news coverage has really affected me.
I haven't been allowing myself to feel even remotely into what it must be like for poor little Ari. I still carry unresolved trauma and have to avoid feeling for self-protection.

But I do know there are methods of trauma healing that work on pre-verbal trauma which can also be used on pre-verbal children, so the unresolved trauma doesn't keep compounding. I'm hoping that the right people are counselling and helping Ari and Leon's parents in order to point them in the direction of this type of therapy (among other things of course) and that there are specialists in the area who can do this type of trauma healing for Baby Ari, and of course that if necessary the family gets financial help.

MOO
 
@seasideForest Does this therapy you're thinking of have a name?
I don't think families get that level of help with finding the best therapy, unfortunately.
There are forms of somatic therapy, the practitioner who started that all off is afaik Peter Levine. I once saw a video of a somatic therapist, might even have been P.L., working with an infant. I remember the result was incredible, but I can't remember why / how exactly. If it occurs to me again, I can let you know.

There is also play therapy. I actually know of somebody who is a qualified play therapist who does trauma therapy with children, altho I don't know the youngest age she works with. Small children up to maybe about 7yo still count as pre-verbal, although obviously their verbal skills are better than a baby's. It's something to do with brain development rather than how many words they know etc.

No, families probably don't get that level of help. I hope sometime that the word gets out that there is such a thing as healing from trauma, it doesn't have to be a life sentence! It's handy to have the financial means though.
 
There are forms of somatic therapy, the practitioner who started that all off is afaik Peter Levine. I once saw a video of a somatic therapist, might even have been P.L., working with an infant. I remember the result was incredible, but I can't remember why / how exactly. If it occurs to me again, I can let you know.

There is also play therapy. I actually know of somebody who is a qualified play therapist who does trauma therapy with children, altho I don't know the youngest age she works with. Small children up to maybe about 7yo still count as pre-verbal, although obviously their verbal skills are better than a baby's. It's something to do with brain development rather than how many words they know etc.

No, families probably don't get that level of help. I hope sometime that the word gets out that there is such a thing as healing from trauma, it doesn't have to be a life sentence! It's handy to have the financial means though.
Do you think if NV is convicted that this sort of therapy could be funded for them through a crime victims’ association?
 
Do you think if NV is convicted that this sort of therapy could be funded for them through a crime victims’ association?
I don't know. Among other things, I'm not in the US. It probably differs by country. Probably worth a try though. Or maybe there are other victims' associations, for non-crime or non-proven crime?

Or if friends are collecting money for the family, this would be a good use of that money imho. If you can heal or even partially heal traumatisation early on, it doesn't get compounded quite as much or maybe not even at all. It might be 'just' PTSD rather than CPTSD that needs to be dealt with. PTSD is quite enough on its own, I don't mean to be disparaging in any way, but good to avoid CPTSD which has a lot of comorbidities to work through as well. I'm not a therapist, so MOO.
 
I don't know. Among other things, I'm not in the US. It probably differs by country. Probably worth a try though. Or maybe there are other victims' associations, for non-crime or non-proven crime?

Or if friends are collecting money for the family, this would be a good use of that money imho. If you can heal or even partially heal traumatisation early on, it doesn't get compounded quite as much or maybe not even at all. It might be 'just' PTSD rather than CPTSD that needs to be dealt with. PTSD is quite enough on its own, I don't mean to be disparaging in any way, but good to avoid CPTSD which has a lot of comorbidities to work through as well. I'm not a therapist, so MOO.
I do hope they get the help they need for baby Ari.
 
There will always be a Leon-shaped hole in Ari's life. :(
I think this is true, but sometimes both twins are not born healthy. If I were the parents, however, I am not sure that I would ever let the other twin out of my sight and no one would ever be good enough to babysit him and I think I would ruin his life by being 210% over protective, IMO
 
Very interesting info in this video, a recommended watch, you'll have to endure Nancy Grace though...


- In addition to the bruising and swelling in the genital area, baby Ari had bruises below the belly button and small scratches on his face.

- Injuries sustained by the dead baby impossible to be sustained by falling of this particular height (18 inches max) according to Kendall Crows, the medical examiner in this video. Fractures like this cannot happen from a fall, it means someone pounded their head on something. Bruises on a 6 week old most are most likely inflicted by someone else.

- Changed her story: from bassinet to bouncer seat. Her story and timeline do not make sense, supposedly the baby killed itself within 45 seconds after her waking up. Charges stem from the fact that examiners determined that the injuries couldn't have been accidental. Injuries and her story/timeline do not match.

- Tried to leave (=flee?) the appartment (after hesitating for 3 minutes) in the middle of the night after the baby died, made a call, police were watching her, surrounded her and arrested her after 3 minutes. Forensic psychologist says innocent people do not try to flee, especially a psychology student like Virzi, who knows from her education that she will be questioned by the police in this situation. Consciousness of guilt?
 
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