PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #2

[JurysOut]

There's so much about this case that we don't know and that doesn't add up.

If the "stomping" proved lethal, wouldn't there be evidence of that in the apartment? The fact that there's been no mention of evidence of that sort in the apartment leads me to think that she left the apartment on her own two feet, though whether willingly or not, I have no idea.

And after all the noise during the night, wouldn't you think someone would have seen someone arriving or leaving that apartment house? Or even returning later in the day? An apparently thorough search of the area around her apartment turned up nothing. That, of course, suggests she's not in the immediate area. So how did she leave or how did someone get her out of there?

Too many questions and not a single decent answer.

We have no idea how thorough a search has been conducted. LE has addressed nothing. I assume Kortne's family would have noticed glaring evidence of a crime before KS was reported missing.

The rear of that building is dark, dark, dark at night. The front of the block is also pretty dark. IMO, anyone could come and go without being seen, especially if they wore dark clothing.

The way the second floor entrance is positioned up under the branches of a tree, it's possible that a person could enter or leave during daytime hours and not be seen by neighbors. IMO.

Even if people were watching at night, you could slip out the back and hug the wall of the 808 side of the building and then follow the NAPA wall all the way past the old travel trailer into the alley and around the corner.

 

[Carolyn H.]

[/quote]The rear of that building is dark, dark, dark at night. The front of the block is also pretty dark. IMO, anyone could come and go without being seen, especially if they wore dark clothing.

The way the second floor entrance is positioned up under the branches of a tree, it's possible that a person could enter or leave during daytime hours and not be seen by neighbors. IMO.

Even if people were watching at night, you could slip out the back and hug the wall of the 808 side of the building and then follow the NAPA wall all the way past the old travel trailer into the alley and around the corner.[/QUOTE]

Jurysout: Thanks for the info about her building. But could someone get a person who wasn't walking on their own out of there without being seen? And could one person do it?

 

[PalmyraDad]

Jury is absolutely right. The area surrounding the house is extremely dark, full of shadows. In fact, when we lived upstairs, a man hid along the house, just next to the 2nd floor entrance, while running from PD. They were literally right across the street and could not see him but I could because I opened the door and there he was. He didn't notice me so I called the police and they walked over and grabbed him.

 

[JurysOut]

Jury is absolutely right. The area surrounding the house is extremely dark, full of shadows. In fact, when we lived upstairs, a man hid along the house, just next to the 2nd floor entrance, while running from PD. They were literally right across the street and could not see him but I could because I opened the door and there he was. He didn't notice me so I called the police and they walked over and grabbed him.

A. Holy cow!

B. He didn't notice you opened the door? Not a smooth criminal.

 

[JurysOut]

The rear of that building is dark, dark, dark at night. The front of the block is also pretty dark. IMO, anyone could come and go without being seen, especially if they wore dark clothing.

The way the second floor entrance is positioned up under the branches of a tree, it's possible that a person could enter or leave during daytime hours and not be seen by neighbors. IMO.

Even if people were watching at night, you could slip out the back and hug the wall of the 808 side of the building and then follow the NAPA wall all the way past the old travel trailer into the alley and around the corner.[/QUOTE]

Jurysout: Thanks for the info about her building. But could someone get a person who wasn't walking on their own out of there without being seen? And could one person do it?[/QUOTE]

IMO, one person could carry a 115 lb person alone, yes. Depending on their level of fitness.

 

[Unscripted]

Her car keys were found in her car which may be an indication that someone removed Kortne from the area in her own vehicle and then later returned her car to the laneway and took off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...sappeared-without-a-trace-from-her-apartment/

 

[sherlockh]

I wish they had asked the friend about the carkeys since he mentioned he was the one driving. It is possible that he forgot since Kortne was arguing with the neighbor when they arrived and the police showed up, but what if he claims he took the keys out?

 

[Carolyn H.]

Her car keys were found in her car which may be an indication that someone removed Kortne from the area in her own vehicle and then later returned her car to the laneway and took off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...sappeared-without-a-trace-from-her-apartment/

That makes sense. i wonder if any LE have focused on who may or may not have seen (or even heard) the car. I do have to wonder how many people were actually asleep in that vicinity, since the police had been there twice. You'd think someone might have been awake enough to at least have heard a car leave. And are there any nearby surveillance cameras that might have caught the car sometime between, say, 4:30 a.m. and 7:30 a.m.? If no one noticed that the car wasn't there in the morning, meaning that it had already returned by the time people were up, that probably means they didn't go very far.

 

[bpinkbinkie]

Thank you for the layout and outside descriptions, they help visualize the scene a lot better. In my mind I was seeing that rear side door as an entrance to both apartments with separate doors, one leading to the first floor apt. and the other to a stairway for the second floor. So there was no common areas for the two apartments, not even an entrance for the two neighbors to interact unless they were outside.

 

[Unscripted]

I wish they had asked the friend about the carkeys since he mentioned he was the one driving. It is possible that he forgot since Kortne was arguing with the neighbor when they arrived and the police showed up, but what if he claims he took the keys out?

I’m not sure it’s been reported which car (KS’s or Sleepover Guy's?) was used to get into Harrisburg that night.

 

[sherlockh]

I’m not sure it’s been reported which car (KS’s or Sleepover Guy's?) was used to get into Harrisburg that night.

You are right. That has not been reported. Somehow I assumed it was her car since the keys were inside but indeed these could have been left by the perp (after something happened to Kortne) also. Which would be stupid but understandable if something bad happened, he is not thinking clearly and in a hurry.

 

[Knox]

Welcome AndreaBingham!!

The rulz/TOS don't allow invites or discussion regarding private messages in forum. I understand your feelings about being verified and appreciate your willingness to come here and share what you know. You'll need to walk a tight rope though in terms of what you say here

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, just want you to stick around.

ETA-Glad I did not quote your post or mine would have been zapped too. Please don't be frustrated, keep posting. Just remember the above.

 

[imamaze]

Victim Friendly
Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior,good or bad is fine, but do so in a civl and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE. Additionally,sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

Inviting outside contact or alluding to "private" additional information:
“Inviting” is termed as a post where you invite other members to contact you to find out more information, rather than post it in the forum. This is not allowed and any posts with emails or invitations to contact for more information will either be edited or deleted entirely. This includes use of the Private Message system via comments such as “Check your PMs” or “PM me” posted in discussion threads. Think about it - it's like whispering into someone's ear while you are at a table full of other people. If you want to have a private conversation just have it, don't announce it. Additionally,please don't drop hints or post on the board that you know something or are privy to inside information but you won't or can't post it.
If you can't post it, don't.

 

[Traceyrita]

If the "stomping" proved lethal, wouldn't there be evidence of that in the apartment? The fact that there's been no mention of evidence of that sort in the apartment leads me to think that she left the apartment on her own two feet, though whether willingly or not, I have no idea.

Hi Carolyn! I just want to add that we only know that it sounded like stomping or pounding, it doesn't mean that there actually was any stomping. Sounds of someone struggling or thrashing around could mimic stomping or pounding IMO, and there would be little or no evidence if someone were *god forbid* strangled or smothered in some manner, or perhaps if that person had a seizure, among other reasons. Just throwing that out there.

 

[JurysOut]

Welcome AndreaBingham!!

The rulz/TOS don't allow invites or discussion regarding private messages in forum. I understand your feelings about being verified and appreciate your willingness to come here and share what you know. You'll need to walk a tight rope though in terms of what you say here

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, just want you to stick around.

ETA-Glad I did not quote your post or mine would have been zapped too. Please don't be frustrated, keep posting. Just remember the above.

Ah. I just came back from a meeting and noticed a bunch of stuff seems to be missing.

This is the first time (and hopefully the last) that I've been a "local".

I now understand how difficult it is when a poster knows stuff with zero degrees of separation and it appears that little LE progress is being made.

Everyone wants to find Kortne.

 

[PalmyraDad]

Mazocca's Place, the local Italian eatery that is selling "Kortne Stouffer Peace Pies", told the Lebanon Daily News that on the first day of sales, Wednesday, that they sold the pizzas until they ran out of mozzarella cheese. That is great news and a bit of positive news in an otherwise heartbreaking situation. It's Friday which means pizza night for my family and I think I know exactly where we'll be getting ours.

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

We need locals and insiders! Please don't be discouraged with the handslap we have ALL received as newcomers here. It is not a natural thing to communicate in such a legally safe manner (required for this site to exist), but you'll learn.

 

[Unscripted]

We need locals and insiders! Please don't be discouraged with the handslap we have ALL received as newcomers here. It is not a natural thing to communicate in such a legally safe manner (required for this site to exist), but you'll learn.

Absolutely! You truly haven’t lived until some of your WS posts have mysteriously evaporated into the hinterland (um… trust moi). It just means that you care and that you will inevitably find a way to rephrase your contributions. :dance:

I’ll have "Cryptic Crosswords" for $200 please Alex…

 

[SurfieTX]

I'm with Unscripted...we've all pretty much have posts deleted, perhaps been put on a time-out once or twice for either knowingly or unknowingly overstepping TOS. Don't take it personally. It happens. And you can still contribute quite a bit by being a local even if some specific subjects are off limits. It's always good to get a "vibe" of a club or an area or whatever...

Hope you return.

 

[LivingJuicy]

Good afternoon everyone!

Random thoughts by me:

It's been 3 weeks - where is Kortne?
Why is everything so HUSH HUSH?
Can we get a press conference or something?!?
What motive would her "friend" have in harming her or playing a part of her disappearance?
Why are all associates of Kortne's quiet? (friends, co-workers, neighbors, boyfriend)

I think we can all agree that she didn't leave on her own but how/why/when did this go down.

It's really frustrating!

I don't really know how much we can sleuth as to not violate TOS but it's hard to adhere since we have 2 possible suspects - which is more than we usually have.