PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[scorekeeper]

I find it interesting that you say TS works for an attorney and has previous experience with the judicial system. I have heard very little about this. Can you elaborate further about it? For instance, do you know what kind of experience he might have with the judicial system?

It's here somewhere on one of the five threads.....

I recall a poster that knew of TS, his family or his friends....

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

It's here somewhere on one of the five threads.....

I recall a poster that knew of TS, his family or his friends....

Thanks for the info, I'll see if I can locate it.

 

[JaimeSommers]

It's here somewhere on one of the five threads.....

I recall a poster that knew of TS, his family or his friends....

I saw it, too, scorekeeper. Early on in the first or second thread, maybe? IIRC, he does/did odd jobs, maintenance, lawn care, or something like that for them.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Delivery drivers are out and about at that time. Newspaper guys and gals that fill the vending machines. Also there are the people that have not gone to bed yet. I don't know about other counties but where I live it's pretty common for people to be released from jail just after midnight-mostly it's people that are required to do weekends. They check in, play some cards and then they are on their merry way! So.....is it anything like that in PA? Any chance that the jailed boyfriend could have come in contact with an aquaintance in jail and let it slip that KS was home alone?? I also want to know what was up with all of the brawling in town that night.

I'm the next town over from Kortne's, and I am not sure about the releasing, but I can say that looking back it seems that there have been a lot of Saturday and Sunday mornings that I've been able to hear people talking from the street even before it is light. A lot of weekends I have to work same hours I do in the week, so a lot of times even if I don't have to get up I am semi-awake between 4:30 and 6ish so I guess those are the hours I mean. Especially once the weather gets warm for spring there are a number of people whose voices I can recognize out there, eg., walking or running for exercise, taking care of pets, gardening etc. In my particular neighborhood I think that a good number of these individuals are retireees, but also there are shift workers (eg from the hospital) and students whom I've got used to hearing. I don't mean that it's necessarily lively out there in the predawn hours, of course...hope this makes sense?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Yeah, the possibilities are endless, but all seem so improbable. I'm local and I can tell you that the place is dead silent that time of night with virtually no traffic. Palmyra has also had its share of nutballs doing crazy things this year.

:seeya: hi, fellow local!

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

There is a picture posted in the NamUs database (National Missing and Unidentified System) that shows what Kortne was wearing the night she went missing. I believe the picture was taken at the HardCore Bar in Harrisburg. Kortne is wearing a bright yellow tank top, black shorts with vibrant floral print and sandals or flip flops that are the thong type. One strap goes between her big toe and other smaller toes that comes almost up the ankle and then wraps around the back of the ankle. From what I know, these clothes are still missing and the flip flops or sandals were found inside her apartment. Which could mean that she went outside barefoot or slipped on possibly a different pair of shoes, but there doesn't seem to be any mention anywhere of any other shoes being missing from her apartment from what I've personally read.

Hehe, I think it is the Hardware bar Nbd of course, and I could be wrong.

 

[reedus23]

This is so baffling, why would someone call the police and report stomping and then say they never heard any disturbance, it's illogical. The only reason I can come up with for doing something like that is if TS didn't want others knowing that he was the one that called the police, still it wouldn't be a wise move on his part to contradict his own statements. Just seems like there is more to this? Like facts are missing or something has been misreported. Because if this is what actually transpired, then Todd Seksek's comments are not only inconsistent but just plain idiotic.

And the reason I said they could be used against him. Personally, I think he tried to distance himself from the whole ordeal, but you just can't lie in the process. Of course, that's assuming there wasn't any misreporting.

 

[reedus23]

BBM ... The only way this makes sense to me is if CP had a thing for Kortne. Speculating here, but it would make sense to me in that case that he defends her against others. If later, however, she spurns his advances, then -- given what those who know him have said here about his rep with women -- all bets are off (IMO).

ETA: Some men see women as property. They protect their property but also can turn violent when denied by that property. Again, IMO.

Whether he had a thing or not, I don't know. However, having been one, I would suggest that most males his age, spending the night alone at a girl's house, have the thought of sex go through their mind at least once.

 

[reedus23]

Perhaps you answered your own question here? TS got the advice of a lawyer, who he did work for, and the advice was, do not talk to the media, but cooperate fully with police. So if a member of the media asked him if he heard a disturbance, would he not say something to the effect that I didn't hear anything, I didn't see anything, I just hope she's ok. etc?

No. He would say no comment other than I hope she is ok. The LAST thing a lawyer wants is to have a client who is caught up in inconsistencies much less lies.

 

[reedus23]

I guess we beat that topic to death BHS. Either way, if TS called the police, and then committed a crime knowing the police were on the way, or as in your theory, committed the crime and then called police, that shows some major, uh, bravery and risk taking. I'm not putting this forward as a theory, but just saying, to me, committing a crime AFTER police left the second time would seem a more plausible scenario than the two mentioned. To me. But again, we beat that to death and my lips are sealed.

To me, if you're looking at a TS theory, I think the likely sequencing is TS calls the cops, before they arrive there is another confrontation (i.e. I just called the cops again) that gets out of control, the unspeakable happens to Kortne (even if not intended), so TS lays low when LE arrives that last time, not answering the door, and then removes the body after LE leaves that last time. It is the only way I see that explains not answering, why TS would call police if he's involved and at the same time fit the timing.

 

[reedus23]

So if you assume everyone is telling the truth and everyone is innocent, at some point, K left the apartment voluntarily or involuntarily. If you assume it was before 7:00 a.m., who in God's name would be up or on the streets or in that vincinity at that ungodly hour in that town?

Random abduction?
Someone choosing that moment to show up to settle a score?

It always leads me to the same place, each and every time. Highly improbable but the most probable of the possibilities to me.

I followed you for the first 2 paragraphs, but I'm not making the connection. What is improbably but yet the most probable of the possibilities?

 

[reedus23]

Delivery drivers are out and about at that time. Newspaper guys and gals that fill the vending machines. Also there are the people that have not gone to bed yet. I don't know about other counties but where I live it's pretty common for people to be released from jail just after midnight-mostly it's people that are required to do weekends. They check in, play some cards and then they are on their merry way! So.....is it anything like that in PA? Any chance that the jailed boyfriend could have come in contact with an aquaintance in jail and let it slip that KS was home alone?? I also want to know what was up with all of the brawling in town that night.

Good thoughts. When people were looking at RSO's, does anyone happen to remember if any worked in such a job?

 

[SnoopJohnB]

I followed you for the first 2 paragraphs, but I'm not making the connection. What is improbably but yet the most probable of the possibilities?

Yes, reedus23, I was purposely vague. And I'm sorry about that. But I don't feel comfortable stating a theory and don't think it would be particularly helpful. But if you look at that post and read the post previous to it, you might be able to sleuth where my suspicions lie. Or, it might be better said, if I was working the case, there is one unthinkable possibility that I would make every effort, and I mean every effort, to rule out.

Since I'm here, hello PlainJane. Nice to meet you.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Yes, reedus23, I was purposely vague. And I'm sorry about that. But I don't feel comfortable stating a theory and don't think it would be particularly helpful. But if you look at that post and read the post previous to it, you might be able to sleuth where my suspicions lie. Or, it might be better said, if I was working the case, there is one unthinkable possibility that I would make every effort, and I mean every effort, to rule out.

Since I'm here, hello PlainJane. Nice to meet you.

Are you thinking she may have taken her own life, whilst upset and under the influence of alcohol and perhaps other substances? If you are, I guess that is a possibility if she wasn't thinking straight, but surely she would have been found by now.

Then again, I could be totally wrong and you are thinking something entirely different.

Either way, I just hope her poor family get answers soon. I can't imagine the hell they are going through.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Hehe, I think it is the Hardware bar Nbd of course, and I could be wrong.

Sorry my bad, just an instance of typing faster than thinking, too late to edit it now!

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Are you thinking she may have taken her own life...

No, and I apologize for even posting this morning and I regret it already. I had already said my goodbyes previously. Let's just forget I ever posted and leave it at that. Maybe one day, if I get angry enough, I'll post what I really think.

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

No, and I apologize for even posting this morning and I regret it already. I had already said my goodbyes previously. Let's just forget I ever posted and leave it at that. Maybe one day, if I get angry enough, I'll post what I really think.

Are you making this about you? Lol

 

[LivingJuicy]

No, and I apologize for even posting this morning and I regret it already. I had already said my goodbyes previously. Let's just forget I ever posted and leave it at that. Maybe one day, if I get angry enough, I'll post what I really think.

Do tell! Has everyone ruled out LE having involvement? Just curious and not pointing fingers!

 

[SnoopJohnB]

I accept any criticism toward me as valid. And I understand how it might be perceived. I haven't figured out how to delete a post here. I already apologized. And I'm not a sleuther like you guys and this isn't my element. And I'm not in my comfort zone like you guys are. I want Kortne to come home and I don't want to make it any tougher on LE than it already is. But….

KS's clothes from the previous evening were missing. Her shoes were still there. We don't know if any other shoes were missing. Would KS go for a stroll without her shoes? Maybe. Wasn't she told to go to her apartment and stay in it? If CP was sleeping and someone knocked on the door and she heard the knock, if she wasn't dressed, she'd throw her clothes on. Or maybe she was still dressed. No reason to put shoes on to answer the door.

So the police showed up and nobody heard it or noticed it? And nobody answered the door? That tells you that nobody was aware of or noticed a police presence. Why would someone call the police to complain and then not answer the door when the police knocked? One reason would be because there wasn't a knock. But most likely, there was a police presence. And of all the unlikely scenarios that you can think of, random abduction, someone stopping by at that moment to settle score, what are the odds that K could be removed from her apartment with no noise or apparent struggle so as to not alert CP or the neighbors?

Why has the Palmyra police department not named the second responding officer? I hope it was for a good reason. I hope it was because the responding officer, while doing his duty, does not deserve to be lambasted in the court of public opinion. Because the Stouffer's may not feel this way, but I could understand that and what ever happened already happened and I wouldn't blame him. He could not have known.

But what we do know, is that that information was not released. And that seems strange since all the other info was released. And we do know that most likely there was a police presence there, by their own admission. And we do know that TS called the police and he supposedly did not answer the door. And we do know that most likely, the officer would have gone to K's apartment first. And we do know that K vanished from her apartment, possibly without shoes, while allegedly nobody heard anything.

If K decided to leave the apartment on her own just to clear her head, then she was already outside the apartment. Even if a random car happened by at that time of the morning, a very small percentage of the public are abductors. But that would catch the attention of an LE driving by, by chance only, or because they were keeping an eye on a place that brought much grief earlier in the morning.

I'm sorry to say this, but most likely, there is a murderer in our area. And it seems remarkably quiet and it doesn't seem right. And while you are tracking down every lead, and doing your due diligence, you had better check out every scenario, regardless of how unlikely or preposterous it may seem. And there should be outside eyes looking at this. You must have outside eyes looking at this to satisfy me. I'll never know what is going on in your investigation, and maybe you have already checked out unlikely scenarios fully and you have positively without a doubt ruled out not only the police presence there that morning, but everyone on duty that morning who was out and about. And no, I don't think there is a grand cover up. That's ridiculous. But these scenarios are no more unlikely than other scenarios. And something stinks from the outside looking in. And you can't blame people for having thoughts like this cross their minds when you are unwilling to reassure the public while we have what is most likely a murderer in our midst. So as long as you chose to remain silent and not provide reassurances or until we're told that the FBI is taking over the investigation, you'll have to live with fact that this scenario is as possible as any other.

 

[scorekeeper]

someone may be better to answer...
but I do recall we discussed why the officer's name that answered the approx. 4:15 call, arriving around 4:30, was never released. It was a different officer but no name was ever released and I know we did question that on this thread. That is why some said perhaps they "just drove by".....
anyone care to help me out here??
thank you, snoop.