PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

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Glad to see all the activity on Kortne's thread, also appreciate all the links and refreshers on this case. Meems.. ya got me thinking. :)
 
Kind of sounds like a domestic abuse matter, IMO. But in a small town, they still may have crossed paths.

On a post today, it was mentioned that her dad is seeking outside help-is this new news? Did he hire someone? i wish it were so.


Around the middle of August, the link below says that the father asks local police to enlist the help of state police.

If you scroll down on the left side of the page there are other articles you can read, there is one titled, "Stouffer family enlists attorney" for legal interests and to help family uncover more into to help find Kortne. The attorney states that he may call in private investigators.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21829801/www.ldnews.com/ci_
 
Ok .. after talking with the parties involved that night SS is NOT certain Kortne was in the apt before cops arrived the second time .. what would CP and/or the neighbors have said that may have lead him to believe she might not have been there?

-snipped- Scott Stouffer said he is fairly certain of the events of that fateful night - all except the part where his daughter actually disappeared.

"I believe, in talking with the kid that was there and the neighbors, I believe they're on top of what happened," he said. "The problem is I really don't know if Kortne was in the house between the first and the second 911 call to the police. That's something that has me a little bit puzzled. Was she in the house when they came the second time?"

Stouffer said he is frustrated that the police officers didn't pursue the matter more when they came back a second time. According to county records, the responding officer left the scene at 4:36 a.m.

"Why didn't they make more of an effort to make sure everybody was all right?" he said.
-snipped-

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21411185/search-continues-one-month-later?refresh=no
 
I must say .. it bothers me A LOT that the "Family Friend" attorney .. has not given one update since the JVM interview .. HEL-LOOO there is a missing girl here!!! Where is the urgency to keep her face "out there"???

and what ever happened to Matthew Scott? You know .. the "family spokesperson" ... What makes a family spokesperson stops being a spokesperson if the person is still missing?? The last few interviews have pretty much been with WS exclusively .. and the last one I can remember was before Thanksgiving. Why???
 
WHAT IF ... MR and CP's story is bogus all the way around .. I mean who is to dispute it .. Kortne isn't around to do so ..

WHAT IF ... CP and MR dropped Kortne off at the Gas Station for her to pick up her car .. She drives home ... CP and MRand possibly "others" follow her home without her knowing ... Maybe CP never really did or have any intention on spending the night with Kortne. That may be part of the "cover up". Even if there was a text saying so (I believe SS said they knew she had an overnight guest via a text her brother found on her phone) .. that could have been a text sent to Kortne by CP as part of the cover up. Like I said before .. IF this was a chance meeting at the Gas Station Pub between her, MR and CP .. there could not have been a "plan" for CP to spend the night.

CP approaches her after she gets out of her car and tells her he wanted to "make sure she got home ok" .. blah, blah, blah .. the dogs start barking .. the neighbors call the cops .. the cops come and leave .. CP tries to overpower Kortne and MR and/or the "others" are waiting in the car ... Kortne tries to make noise, hoping the neighbors will come out to see what's wrong .. but they don't .. they call the cops instead. By the cops get there .. MR and CP are gone with Kortne but Kortnes car is still there .. so it looks like to LE that she is home and all is quiet. (***IF this is the case .. they don't know how lucky they were to get out of there so fast with LE on the way back!!)

MRsr could be lying about MRjr getting home at 2:00 ... it NEVER made sense to me that CP would drop MR off and then continue to drive his (MRs)car a few blocks.

Then you have the now "deleted" posts by BS .. MR's girlfriend saying MR never came home that night ... hhhuuummm ...

They technically had until 7:30am until CP showed up on convenience store video.
 
Ok... Perhaps..Motive?

Deliver her unconscious to the people she owed money to... Or they drive somewhere and "the others" take her... . ? It's possible as long as blood wasn't in MR's car since LE searched it.

I don't think MR or CP would rat each other out without significant pressure from LE.



WHAT IF ... MR and CP's story is bogus all the way around .. I mean who is to dispute it .. Kortne isn't around to do so ..

WHAT IF ... CP and MR dropped Kortne off at the Gas Station for her to pick up her car .. She drives home ... CP and MRand possibly "others" follow her home without her knowing ... Maybe CP never really did or have any intention on spending the night with Kortne. That may be part of the "cover up". Even if there was a text saying so (I believe SS said they knew she had an overnight guest via a text her brother found on her phone) .. that could have been a text sent to Kortne by CP as part of the cover up. Like I said before .. IF this was a chance meeting at the Gas Station Pub between her, MR and CP .. there could not have been a "plan" for CP to spend the night.

CP approaches her after she gets out of her car and tells her he wanted to "make sure she got home ok" .. blah, blah, blah .. the dogs start barking .. the neighbors call the cops .. the cops come and leave .. CP tries to overpower Kortne and MR and/or the "others" are waiting in the car ... Kortne tries to make noise, hoping the neighbors will come out to see what's wrong .. but they don't .. they call the cops instead. By the cops get there .. MR and CP are gone with Kortne but Kortnes car is still there .. so it looks like to LE that she is home and all is quiet. (***IF this is the case .. they don't know how lucky they were to get out of there so fast with LE on the way back!!)

MRsr could be lying about MRjr getting home at 2:00 ... it NEVER made sense to me that CP would drop MR off and then continue to drive his (MRs)car a few blocks.

Then you have the now "deleted" posts by BS .. MR's girlfriend saying MR never came home that night ... hhhuuummm ...

They technically had until 7:30am until CP showed up on convenience store video.
 
Meem's every thing you said sounds like it could have possibly happened.....the part about the dogs barking and the neighbors calling the cops,.. I think I read that the neighbors called the cops after she started fighting with everyone in the hallway. (she thought they had called the cops earlier on the party they were having where the boyfriend got arrested) I'm sure the dogs were barking though, especially if they felt she was in trouble.

I have two theories: She had the worse day ever, after everything got quiet she decided to go outside and calm down, we still do not know how intoxicated she was, she could have been walking and someone with bad intentions picked her up, (example, like truck driver, someone working odd shifts, etc.)

Or she was set up by someone, who, not sure.

Just hope they find her for the family's sake, I don't know what I would do.
 
Unfortunately just too much we don't know. Honestly I believe KS walked down the rear steps on her own. But with just some small detail changes that could fit Meems theory...CP somehome gets her to come down voluntarily to party more etc. Then what happened I'm just not sure. But this much I know. LE either did not do their job or they are involved. Why not tell us more!!! When did LE arrive? Who was responding officer? What did LE call in to dispatch? Why not call number that filed last noise complaint? What cars were there? What did they see? The only reason to be so quiet is CYA or straight involvement.

Lets assume CP and MR not involved. CP thought he was gonna get something from KS but she pissed off and he tries to calm her down and then crashes. 1)She goes downstairs and pounds of TS door to start a another fight and that goes bad (I don't believe he is the neighbor who called LE 3rd time) 2) LE pulls up responding to 3rd call, and she walks over then something goes wrong?? 3) She walked down the street or was picked up by someone else???

As far as MR girlfriends comments, if they did not arrive back at MR's house until 2-3 and CP did take her car to KS apt then her comments about him not coming home all night would make sense. MR's car would not of been at his house if she drove by.

I mentioned this before but I think worth saying it again. If KS was stomping it would be heard by neighbors below her....it has been reported that TS called police the 3rd time. He owns the other half of the duplex. maybe pounding on the side wall but not stomping on the floor would be heard by him!
 
Ok... Perhaps..Motive?

Deliver her unconscious to the people she owed money to... Or they drive somewhere and "the others" take her... . ? It's possible as long as blood wasn't in MR's car since LE searched it.

I don't think MR or CP would rat each other out without significant pressure from LE.

It's definitely worth questioning everything that CP, MR, and MR Sr. have said. I think it's work while coming up with a bullet-point timeline that excludes all of the times and info provided by those three people. If we only rely on times and reports from more reliable sources (the text KS's brother received, KS's friend at the pizza shops, 911 calls, police visits, the neighbors' accounts, the text and video of CP at 7:30 the next morning), something might jump out at us.

I agree with posters who have questioned Sr's comments to the press. If my relative was being interviewed by the police in connection with someone's disappearance, I certainly wouldn't be assuring people that their eating and smoking habits hadn't changed. MR & CP were just being interviewed at that point, and still haven't been named as suspects or persons of interest. Why come out and more or less blurt out "They didn't do it, I would know"?

Gas Station Pub encounter could be random. But, if the rumors are correct, CP and MR are friends with the person who is owed money. What if they contacted this person after meeting KS at the Gas Station to say something like "you-know-who is here and her bf just got locked up, you still want to talk to her about that money?" In this hypothetical, even if they set up a meeting, MR and CP don't necessarily know what happened, but could have taken the approach that this is between KS and her connect/dealer, it's got nothing to do with me, they didn't know what was going to happen.

IMO, it is likely that KS was not present in the apartment for the last LE visit. Two neighbors said that they think KS left her apartment and something happened to afterwards. LE supposedly knocked on KS's door and neighbor's door, but no one answered.

What if, after hearing stomping and banging and calling 911, neighbor looks out the window and see KS leaving (or being dragged away by) some sketchy characters. At this point, the neighbor's already gotten into an altercation with KS, and CP has exchanged words with him. Now, maybe he sees the "others" and decides its best for him not to open the door. He knows them, or knows them by reputation. Neighbor has been in the system and knows that there's "traffic" in and out of the KS apartment. Loses stomach for talking with the police again that night. If KS left with the "others", left with MR, or left by herself to meet them, she isn't there to open her door. CP doesn't live at the address, has just let KS leave with sketchy people, and doesn't like police anyway, so he's not going to answer the door. (Assuming he was even there for the last LE visit). Also, can anyone verify whether CP told the story about KS stomping on the floor before or after the news reports about the second noise call? While KS may have lost her temper earlier, do you really stomp on the floor, knowing that police will come, when your running in the circles that KS does?

Thanks to all for the additional details on LE in the area. I stand corrected in that there does seem to be more "smoke" here. The detective engaging in relations with his CI is definitely interesting. The second dismissal is more vague, but also interesting since it happens after KS's disappearance. These facts, and the apparent lack of progress, would definitely make me push for state LE and FBI involvement if I were KS's parents. Even if there's nothing untoward about LE's handling of the case, it makes sense to involve a new sets of eyes (and with more resources). Plus you aren't relying on local LE some of whom are related to people in KS's circle.

The CI angle always seems to be suggested when someone disappears and there's a drug angle. It's worth considering, especially since nationwide there have been many many tragedies involving improperly handled CI's being murdered and going missing. See the NYrker link if you want further reading on this topic:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/09/03/120903fa_fact_stillman?currentPage=1

Federal Witness Protection, or Witness Security, doesn't seem to come into play here, since there must be federal involvement and this protection is usually only provided in the biggest cases. Would think that FBI would be all over this if KS was in some undisclosed location with U.S. Marshals.

A word of caution on the CI theory though: It's dangerous to suggest that someone could be a CI. Lots of paranoid people in that world. Not worth throwing around the possibility (whether it's true or not) when it could jeopardize someone's safety and reputation.
 
Unfortunately just too much we don't know. Honestly I believe KS walked down the rear steps on her own. But with just some small detail changes that could fit Meems theory...CP somehome gets her to come down voluntarily to party more etc. Then what happened I'm just not sure. But this much I know. LE either did not do their job or they are involved. Why not tell us more!!! When did LE arrive? Who was responding officer? What did LE call in to dispatch? Why not call number that filed last noise complaint? What cars were there? What did they see? The only reason to be so quiet is CYA or straight involvement.

Lets assume CP and MR not involved. CP thought he was gonna get something from KS but she pissed off and he tries to calm her down and then crashes. 1)She goes downstairs and pounds of TS door to start a another fight and that goes bad (I don't believe he is the neighbor who called LE 3rd time) 2) LE pulls up responding to 3rd call, and she walks over then something goes wrong?? 3) She walked down the street or was picked up by someone else???

As far as MR girlfriends comments, if they did not arrive back at MR's house until 2-3 and CP did take her car to KS apt then her comments about him not coming home all night would make sense. MR's car would not of been at his house if she drove by.

I mentioned this before but I think worth saying it again. If KS was stomping it would be heard by neighbors below her....it has been reported that TS called police the 3rd time. He owns the other half of the duplex. maybe pounding on the side wall but not stomping on the floor would be heard by him!

I'd have to look for the link that states this, but sure I read that TS called the cops the third time, even though he claimed he had not heard any stomping. The reason he was the one who called at all was because the downstairs neighbors sent him a text stating that K was stomping on the floor, he waited more than ten minutes or so to make the call to police. He may have waited for three reasons, one so he could listen to see if he could hear it himself, or two maybe he was unsure if he should actually make the call because police had already been there twice that day or three he did not see the text from the neighbor right away. Don't have time to look for link now but if I find it I will post it.
 
I'd have to look for the link that states this, but sure I read that TS called the cops the third time, even though he claimed he had not heard any stomping. The reason he was the one who called at all was because the downstairs neighbors sent him a text stating that K was stomping on the floor, he waited more than ten minutes or so to make the call to police. He may have waited for three reasons, one so he could listen to see if he could hear it himself, or two maybe he was unsure if he should actually make the call because police had already been there twice that day or three he did not see the text from the neighbor right away. Don't have time to look for link now but if I find it I will post it.

Do we have a link to confirm this? I have never read this before ... I was under the assumption that the downstairs neighbor called the police the final time.
 
Do we have a link to confirm this? I have never read this before ... I was under the assumption that the downstairs neighbor called the police the final time.

I have never read this before either Meems. I know that there were some articles that stated that TS called the police that final time, but many of us here questioned if that was an error in reporting, and if it was possible that the downstairs neighbors called the police instead.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

snipped "According to Kortne’s father and neighbors, Saksek called police after Kortne stomped on her apartment floor in anger."

I also found this regarding TS.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21212616

snipped "Todd Saksek, who owns the house adjoining Stouffer's apartment, said he did not know the young woman well and did not hear any disturbance on Sunday morning.

"I'm just praying that everything turns out all right," he said
."
 
I have never heard this before either. I'd like to see that link as well. SS said that TS called the police the second time in an interview. Maybe SS was mistaken, maybe not. A lot of people seem to think it makes more sense that the downstairs neighbor called the police the second time, but people who previously lived there said that you could not hear anything downstairs when you were on the third floor, but you could hear everything next door. So it's possible the stomping was annoying TS and not the downstairs neighbors.
 
Ok .. after talking with the parties involved that night SS is NOT certain Kortne was in the apt before cops arrived the second time .. what would CP and/or the neighbors have said that may have lead him to believe she might not have been there?

-snipped- Scott Stouffer said he is fairly certain of the events of that fateful night - all except the part where his daughter actually disappeared.

"I believe, in talking with the kid that was there and the neighbors, I believe they're on top of what happened," he said. "The problem is I really don't know if Kortne was in the house between the first and the second 911 call to the police. That's something that has me a little bit puzzled. Was she in the house when they came the second time?"

Stouffer said he is frustrated that the police officers didn't pursue the matter more when they came back a second time. According to county records, the responding officer left the scene at 4:36 a.m.

"Why didn't they make more of an effort to make sure everybody was all right?" he said.
-snipped-

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21411185/search-continues-one-month-later?refresh=no

Mr. Stouffer and I have the same question. Was she even at the apartment when police came to it the second time?

I have long suspected that she was not.

Not sure if she was no longer there because of her own volition or because someone else took her away from the apartment.
 
Honestly the more I think about this .. I don't think CP "took" Kortne home .. I think he "followed" her home. I don't think she knew he was following her .. they both showed up at the same time .. making the dogs bark .. and ticking off the neighbors .. when the neighbors came out .. that shifted Kortnes attention the them instead of wondering why CP was there .. when she invited him up .. (because she trusted him and to quiet the dogs) this is when the trouble started. It would look like .. to the neighbors .. that they were there "together" .. I don't think she was there the second police call .. the "neighbor" might have seen her leave (with CP either willingly or not) and decided .. he's not answering the door cuz she alreadly left and the noise would have stopped.
**Just my "latest" in my many theories .. ;)
 
Do we have a link to confirm this? I have never read this before ... I was under the assumption that the downstairs neighbor called the police the final time.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

This article verifies that K thought the downstairs neighbors called the police on the underage drinking party. Not verified that they were the ones but she thought it was them.
1st call, underage drinking party, boyfriend gets arrested.
2nd call, the downstairs neighbors did make that one, after they saw K kick and swing at TS.
3rd call, TS made that one, I will look for the article that states he received a text from the downstairs neighbor regarding the stomping, BUT if I can't find it don't throw stones at me lol, I DO remember reading it and thinking, hey, why would this guy wait so long to call the cops?
 
Honestly the more I think about this .. I don't think CP "took" Kortne home .. I think he "followed" her home. I don't think she knew he was following her .. they both showed up at the same time .. making the dogs bark .. and ticking off the neighbors .. when the neighbors came out .. that shifted Kortnes attention the them instead of wondering why CP was there .. when she invited him up .. (because she trusted him and to quiet the dogs) this is when the trouble started. It would look like .. to the neighbors .. that they were there "together" .. I don't think she was there the second police call .. the "neighbor" might have seen her leave (with CP either willingly or not) and decided .. he's not answering the door cuz she alreadly left and the noise would have stopped.
**Just my "latest" in my many theories .. ;)

that's a really great theory meems!!
 
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