PA - Leon Katz, infant, murdered, and twin, injured by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[IDK]

I missed that about the second twin returning to the residence with his father. Is that a fact?

All I've read is that the father arrived at about the same time as the ambulance, after she had called the parents at the hospital, and then 911.

Yes, see below. (Edited to add quote and article)

“Roberts and Katz returned with Ari just as paramedics were arriving to tend to Leon. The baby was taken to hospital, and died in the early hours.”

Lawyers to seek death penalty for student accused of killing friend’s baby

Prosecutors will fight to see Nicole Virzi, who is facing charges for the murder of six-and-a-half-week-old Leon Katz, executed if she is found guilty

www.thetimes.com

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, see below. (Edited to add quote and article)

“Roberts and Katz returned with Ari just as paramedics were arriving to tend to Leon. The baby was taken to hospital, and died in the early hours.”

Lawyers to seek death penalty for student accused of killing friend’s baby

Prosecutors will fight to see Nicole Virzi, who is facing charges for the murder of six-and-a-half-week-old Leon Katz, executed if she is found guilty

www.thetimes.com

I wonder if they made a mistake because information in the PCA says his father.

Where else might they have got the info from?

 

[seasideForest]

Snipped for focus. Reading what you wrote made me wonder if NV accidentally dropped Leon and panicked, not wanting to be blamed so instead concocted a story about a bouncer, bassinet, etc. I mentioned upthread that the reason we're hearing about him falling out of very different objects might be because it wasn't true, and she didn't remember what she told 911, therefore her story about what he fell out of has changed.

I don't know much about babies, as I didn't have any, but I babysat a few months old baby once when I was 15 or 16. I had him on top of a dresser that was his changing table. I turned away for something, not knowing how fast and squirmy babies could be, and he rolled off. Babies may be quick and squirmy but I'm quicker, thank goodness. I THANKFULLY grabbed a leg as he fell and caught him. My heart was pounding but I learned a valuable lesson.

Reflecting on that makes me wonder had I not caught him, what would I have told the mother? I'm thinking I'd likely be too embarrassed to tell the truth, that I basically was responsible for letting him fall. Especially if there was visible damage. Would I have come up with something that put the blame on the child, like it appears NV has when she said *He* fell out of his <insert your choice of options we've heard about>?

Thinking back on my own experience it's really making me wonder if it was an accident with Leon. Maybe something stupid like he wouldn't stop crying, so she was tossing him up in the air and catching him (till she accidentally didn't) hoping that would make him stop. People don't always do the smartest things. ALL MOO!

It's possible.
Not that I think you can put any blame on a 6 week old infant, nor am I suggesting that you think so Gemmie but there are undoubtedly people around who believe that.

I feel ill at the thought of someone tossing a 6 week old infant into the air to try to make him stop crying. What happened to rocking an infant in your arms? I don't have children myself but there are things you pick up about appropriate and inappropriate actions with infants, at least I thought so. MOO

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

IMO either he was gone from the dwelling while his wife napped an NV babysat... or they have a huge house. Do we know the size of the house?

I went with a friend once to a home where she was a nanny and they had an elevator. IN the house, not one to get to the front door. It was to get from floor to floor of the house. It was HUGE. If it was a house like that, I can see her contacting dad to say what she saw, and he asked her to send a pic, thinking she was exaggerating about what she saw and not wanting to stop whatever he was doing and take the elevator to wherever in the house she was.

JMO

They lived in an apartment per media reports. I also am curious she did not call him in or bring the baby to him but created a record of the image. All of this is so very odd. MOOO.

 

[Gemmie]

It's possible.
Not that I think you can put any blame on a 6 week old infant, nor am I suggesting that you think so Gemmie but there are undoubtedly people around who believe that.

I feel ill at the thought of someone tossing a 6 week old infant into the air to try to make him stop crying. What happened to rocking an infant in your arms? I don't have children myself but there are things you pick up about appropriate and inappropriate actions with infants, at least I thought so. MOO

People do strange things. I Goog'ed for it, thinking I'd find a vid I could post showing that some people do do that, and instead came across Quora with people asking that Q and some responses:

Why do fathers throw their babies into the air, then catch them? Over and over. Mothers never do this. I saw a man throwing his baby into the air, where the kid's head came one inch from the ceiling. Are they morons?
When I was 7, I saw a man drop his baby after throwing him in the air. Baby died. I’m 80 and I can never forget that

and....
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my husband don’t like it and worried for the baby. Sister said “it’s nothing serious Victoria”

and....

How high can I throw a 3 month old into the air without hurting her?
Don’t.
Not an inch.
Babies that age lack the physical structure to handle the impact of being thrown and caught.

etc.

Source of people asking that Q: Why should it be important for me to throw my two month old daughter up in the air and hold her back and forth?

 

[seasideForest]

I’m guessing a reclined glider/bouncer - example below. Not a “bounce-a-roo” for an older infant with trunk control and not a bedside bassinet or “play ‘n play.”

Bouncer Bliss—cozy for your newborn | BabyBjörn

Let your baby rock gently & comfortably in Bouncer Bliss! Our baby bouncer is a snug place for your newborn to play nearby while you do chores. For ages 0–2.

www.babybjorn.com

Thanks for providing a picture.

I still find it hard to believe that a 6-week old baby would fall out of one of those, if he/she was strapped in properly. And if he/she wasn't, then that would be on the caregiver, in this case NV.
MOO

 

[SMK777]

People do strange things. I Goog'ed for it, thinking I'd find a vid I could post showing that some people do do that, and instead came across Quora with people asking that Q and some responses:

Why do fathers throw their babies into the air, then catch them? Over and over. Mothers never do this. I saw a man throwing his baby into the air, where the kid's head came one inch from the ceiling. Are they morons?
When I was 7, I saw a man drop his baby after throwing him in the air. Baby died. I’m 80 and I can never forget that

and....
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my hu...
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my husband don’t like it and worried for the baby. Sister said “it’s nothing serious Victoria”
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my hu...
and....
How high can I throw a 3 month old into the air without hurting her?
Don’t.
Not an inch.
Babies that age lack the physical structure to handle the impact of being thrown and caught.

etc.

Source of people asking that Q: Why should it be important for me to throw my two month old daughter up in the air and hold her back and forth?

Very informative. Yes, I recall as a kid seeing Uncles toss babies up in the air and catch them over and over again. So it really is dangerous, it seems..

 

[seasideForest]

People do strange things. I Goog'ed for it, thinking I'd find a vid I could post showing that some people do do that, and instead came across Quora with people asking that Q and some responses:

Why do fathers throw their babies into the air, then catch them? Over and over. Mothers never do this. I saw a man throwing his baby into the air, where the kid's head came one inch from the ceiling. Are they morons?
When I was 7, I saw a man drop his baby after throwing him in the air. Baby died. I’m 80 and I can never forget that

and....
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my hu...
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my husband don’t like it and worried for the baby. Sister said “it’s nothing serious Victoria”
How do I stop my sister from throwing my infant baby girl (2 months old) up in the air before catching her last minute? Both me and my hu...
and....
How high can I throw a 3 month old into the air without hurting her?
Don’t.
Not an inch.
Babies that age lack the physical structure to handle the impact of being thrown and caught.

etc.

Source of people asking that Q: Why should it be important for me to throw my two month old daughter up in the air and hold her back and forth?

OMG! People obviously do very strange things. It's good there are websites where people can ask on the advisability of said strange things. MOO

 

[seasideForest]

My questions have more to do with her coming across the country, not even staying in the family's home, but somehow being allowed to apparently change the twin's diapers, or get near his genital's in the first place.

Not to fault the parents because I still don't know how this all came about, and trusting the wrong people happens; however, why would a visitor be left with your child to know about his genitals. All I'm conveying is I wouldn't just let out of town guests start changing my baby's diapers or trust someone visiting with the care of my young infants. How well did they really know this woman?​

If you trust someone to babysit your infant, I'm not surprised that that includes a possible diaper change, which obviously entails seeing the baby's genitals. If you have no reason to believe that the babysitter has some warped fascination with baby's genitals, why would you forbid diaper change? You'd want your baby to be dry and comfortable. I mean 'you' as in 'one', not you personally.
MOO

 

[IDK]

I wonder if they made a mistake because information in the PCA says his father.

Where else might they have got the info from?

I can’t tell because the article quotes several sources including the charging documents.

Even if it was the father alone who returned to the house, I still find it very strange. IMO.

If the hospital was certain Ari’s injuries were the result of child abuse, shouldn’t they have alerted LE to return to the house with the father? It seems dangerous to send him home to confront the supposed abuser on his own.

Also, NV would need to be questioned unless the hospital thought someone else was responsible. All IMO.

 

[SMK777]

If you trust someone to babysit your infant, I'm not surprised that that includes a possible diaper change, which obviously entails seeing the baby's genitals. If you have no reason to believe that the babysitter has some warped fascination with baby's genitals, why would you forbid diaper change? You'd want your baby to be dry and comfortable. I mean 'you' as in 'one', not you personally.
MOO

Right, years ago while they visited me I had had my mother and cousin changing my baby’s diapers so I could get some sleep while my husband was at work.

Unless the person is a perverted sociopath/pedophile, a baby’s genitals are innocent and to be kept clean and dry —and diaper changes are par for the course.

[Again, when he was three the sitter would occasionally bathe my son; I never thought of barring her from his genitalia because I knew her and didn’t think she was a criminal.]

 

[SMK777]

I can’t tell because the article quotes several sources including the charging documents.

Even if it was the father alone who returned to the house, I still find it very strange. IMO.

If the hospital was certain Ari’s injuries were the result of child abuse, shouldn’t they have alerted LE to return to the house with the father? It seems dangerous to send him home to confront the supposed abuser on his own.

Also, NV would need to be questioned unless the hospital thought someone else was responsible. All IMO.

Right, it’s extremely confusing, as if some information is missing.

 

[seasideForest]

It is my personal observation, so MOO, that a lot of mentally screwed up people are attracted to the field of psychology and mental health.

RSBMFF
Yes, Bryan Kohberger comes to mind.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I can’t tell because the article quotes several sources including the charging documents.

Even if it was the father alone who returned to the house, I still find it very strange. IMO.

If the hospital was certain Ari’s injuries were the result of child abuse, shouldn’t they have alerted LE to return to the house with the father? It seems dangerous to send him home to confront the supposed abuser on his own.

Also, NV would need to be questioned unless the hospital thought someone else was responsible. All IMO.

It's possible the doctors hadn't communicated their concerns to the parents at that time. I believe detectives did go to the residence to pick up NV for questioning, but I don't know at what time. Has anyone here seen a full copy of the PCA? I can only see snippets on the Law&Crime video.

 

[NCWatcher]

It's possible the doctors hadn't communicated their concerns to the parents at that time. I believe detectives did go to the residence to pick up NV for questioning, but I don't know at what time. Has anyone here seen a full copy of the PCA? I can only see snippets on the Law&Crime video.

Maybe. It's still odd the hospital let anyone go if it was so obvious Ari had been abused. It wouldn't have been up to the doctor to decide Virzi did it rather than someone else including one of the parents. (I am not saying a parent did it-- only that the possibility certainly existed.) I suspect it's possible it may not have been so obvious Ari's injury was abuse at the time but when Leon was hurt, the doctor decided it was obvious.
MOO

 

[sds71]

Nicole Virzi returned to Airbnb distraught after baby killing

Video exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com shows Nicole Virzi, 29, returning to her Airbnb rental in Pittsburgh shortly after midnight June 16, appearing distraught and anxious.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Curious Me]

Does anyone else find it odd that apparently the parents returned to the home with Ari from the ER right around the time the ambulance arrived?​

I missed that about the second twin returning to the residence with his father. Is that a fact?

Yes, see below. (Edited to add quote and article)

“Roberts and Katz returned with Ari just as paramedics were arriving to tend to Leon. The baby was taken to hospital, and died in the early hours.”​

Lawyers to seek death penalty for student accused of killing friend’s baby

Prosecutors will fight to see Nicole Virzi, who is facing charges for the murder of six-and-a-half-week-old Leon Katz, executed if she is found guilty

www.thetimes.com

So, the parents rushed off with Ari to the hospital due to his genital injuries at around 6:30 p.m. and I believe that call was made about an injured Leon around 11-11:30 p.m. They were at the hospital quite awhile, but you're right @IDK, that Ari was sent home.

Your questions are valid in that (1) Ari wasn't injured enough to keep him hospitalized (2) The dr. didn't raise the red flag on the parents injuring him and let them take him home.

​

 

[seasideForest]

The other thought was that maybe this was premeditated? Maybe she injured the first twin so she would be left alone with Leon?

This is all speculation, IMO.

BBM
That's what occurred to me as a possibility too. JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Nicole Virzi returned to Airbnb distraught after baby killing

Video exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com shows Nicole Virzi, 29, returning to her Airbnb rental in Pittsburgh shortly after midnight June 16, appearing distraught and anxious.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What I find interesting about one of the pics in the article you posted is the look on her face (cropped by me).


Video exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com shows Nicole Virzi returning to her Airbnb rental in Pittsburgh shortly after midnight June 16, appearing distraught and anxious (pictured) as she struggled to unlock the door after she allegedly killed a six-week-old boy

The reason I found it interesting is if she has some mental condition where you'd show no remorse for your actions (Not saying she does, saying IF she did. I also don't know all the names of those conditions to call them out)... that is not going on here after viewing that pic of her "appearing distraught and anxious" and "struggling to unlock the door". To me, if I was in her place and innocent of what she's charged with, I'm be pretty darn distraught and anxious too. She appears to be deep in thought.

To me, someone that would abuse a child, let alone an infant, wouldn't be showing a lot of remorse/anxiety/distraught as there has to be something wrong with them in the first place to even do such a thing. There are a lot of killers like that (showing no remorse). Easily Googleable for names of various people like that. Due to this it's really making me rethink some things about the case. I am one that's not 100% in the camp that she's guilty. I'd need a lot more info than they're giving the general public to lean me more in that direction.

As per usual... all MOO.

Source to keep things together: Nicole Virzi returned to Airbnb distraught after baby killing

 

[SMK777]

Nicole Virzi returned to Airbnb distraught after baby killing

Video exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com shows Nicole Virzi, 29, returning to her Airbnb rental in Pittsburgh shortly after midnight June 16, appearing distraught and anxious.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is just all completely bizarre. She was viewed as young, pretty, polite, a PhD student, respected where she stayed, a happy young woman with ambition who enjoyed travel and her circle of academic friends. What exactly happened? It just doesn’t make any sense.