PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[SeekingJana]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/130-Collins-Ave-Bellefonte-PA-16823/75216592_zpid/

For those reading about Ray's case but don't know every detail which is in the public domain, these are photos of his last known residence, the home he shared with Patty Forlicola.
She's sold the house. It will be interesting to see where she turns up next.

I don't know how to say this exactly, but when I looked at the home photos a day or so ago, this is not at all the type house I had thought a DA would be living in. Patty, yes, but a DA? Not in these parts. It's all just so sad, and the selling of their shared residence ( of which he paid off the mortgage) seems like another finality in what was the life and times of Ray Gricar.
I wonder, for no particular reason other than it could have been part of a crime scene, what happened to his Mini Cooper?

 

[SuperSmith]

For those reading about Ray's case but don't know every detail which is in the public domain, these are photos of his last known residence, the home he shared with Patty Forlicola.
She's sold the house. It will be interesting to see where she turns up next.

I don't know how to say this exactly, but when I looked at the home photos a day or so ago, this is not at all the type house I had thought a DA would be living in. Patty, yes, but a DA? Not in these parts. It's all just so sad, and the selling of their shared residence ( of which he paid off the mortgage) seems like another finality in what was the life and times of Ray Gricar.
I wonder, for no particular reason other than it could have been part of a crime scene, what happened to his Mini Cooper?

Thank you SJ for adding in the commentary as I was rushed when I posted the link. I've wondered if any of those boxes in the house contained any of Rays belongings. I wonder why she sold it after all this time. She doubled her money and I'm sure the Mini is long gone at this point. I also wonder whose white bed that was that had toys and stuffed animals. I wonder if Patty retired.

 

[SeekingJana]

Thank you SJ for adding in the commentary as I was rushed when I posted the link. I've wondered if any of those boxes in the house contained any of Rays belongings. I wonder why she sold it after all this time. She doubled her money and I'm sure the Mini is long gone at this point. I also wonder whose white bed that was that had toys and stuffed animals. I wonder if Patty retired.

Just a few of my observations from the photos:

SS, I saw a cream-colored vintage suitcase,probably from the 40's, I'd think, and for some reason, wondered if any of his things could be in there.
Also, there are some small, non-china, non-crystal objects on the very top of the china cabinet in the dining room. I wondered if any of those things could have been his.

I don't know that it matters, but my impression is that she slept in the white iron daybed. There were more photos and things in this room which looked more lived in.

Did you wonder who the high chair belonged to? It looked like 40's to 50's era to me. I guess it was a Fornicola family left-over.I wondered if she wanted to be a mother.

It's just so sad that the place he called home is now sold, as it was a concrete link to him in many ways. I can now see that they lived a very frugal life, apparently, and I had wondered
exactly what people meant when they said he was frugal. I guess Patty was as well.

I noticed a dog bed in the living room, one of the large pillow types on the floor. It's blue, across from the chairs. I'm glad she had another dog, maybe 2 dogs since Honey died.

I hope this isn't rude to say, but I hope she's found happiness in her personal life and is moving because of something really positive and good in her future. She's around 50 now, right?
I may have a few unanswered questions about the phone call, the things said on the morning of the 15th, but I don't see how we can ever know why there were slightly different versions given in interviews. I believe she deserves both happiness and privacy again.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you SJ for adding in the commentary as I was rushed when I posted the link. I've wondered if any of those boxes in the house contained any of Rays belongings. I wonder why she sold it after all this time. She doubled her money and I'm sure the Mini is long gone at this point. I also wonder whose white bed that was that had toys and stuffed animals. I wonder if Patty retired.

The boxes may not, but there was a "Billy Wahoo" Cleveland Indian's logo magnet on the refrigerator.

The suit case looks to be too old to have belonged to RFG and the "bed" looks like some type of a couch. Keep in mind that it was PEF's family home and that might have been her childhood toys.

Four bedrooms is a lot one person.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I will agree with Jana that I hope she finds happiness. I am surprised the house was that large.

I got the impression that it was a 1950's type house. The stove looks old.

I had the impression that the bathroom was off the bedroom, but it opens into the hall.

 

[SeekingJana]

The boxes may not, but there was a "Billy Wahoo" Cleveland Indian's logo magnet on the refrigerator.

The suit case looks to be too old to have belonged to RFG and the "bed" looks like some type of a couch. Keep in mind that it was PEF's family home and that might have been her childhood toys.

Four bedrooms is a lot one person.

Hi, JJ,

No, I wasn't saying that the suitcase was one which was always Ray's possession, only that if a person wanted to store small antique toys, that type of large, almost indestructible suitcase would be a good and easily visible storage case. Also, they are so easily found, he could have bought it quite cheap at an antique store to.. carry some antique purchases in one hand.
Or it could be a Fornicola family left over, which she seemed to be taking with her and not disposing of.

The item you are calling a couch is definitely a day bed. It is a rather feminine piece of furniture, and does serve as a multi- purpose piece of furniture. A sofa of sorts ( very uncomfortable for the back as there is no support, really) and a pull out bed which is usually a full bed with a regular mattress and foundation set.
Or maybe she had a young niece or something at one time who would stay with her, and this was her guest room. IDK, but to me, the master bedroom, or what I think is the master bedroom, with the blue pieced quilt as the top coverlet, does not really look lived in like the rest of the house.
I could be mistaken, of course, but this was my impressions from the photos.

Thanks for the discussion, SS, and JJ.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I had the same impression regarding the master bedrooms. Of course, they could have had separate bedrooms.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/130-Collins-Ave-Bellefonte-PA-16823/75216592_zpid/

Looks like it might have had a sewer problem at one time the grass looks reseeded on the pipe line in the front but I could be wrong

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Looks like it might have had a sewer problem at one time the grass looks reseeded on the pipe line in the front but I could be wrong

I think that is roof drainage.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

I think that is roof drainage.

JJ would you know who seen or reported seeing RG in the SoS with a female and it what time also I know IB said she seen RG with a female with big hair at what time and with this pack wood sighting who reported that one and what time were these all on friday and the owner of the sos what time did he see RG outside ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ would you know who seen or reported seeing RG in the SoS with a female and it what time also I know IB said she seen RG with a female with big hair at what time and with this pack wood sighting who reported that one and what time were these all on friday and the owner of the sos what time did he see RG outside ?

Only a business owner for the SoS. It was not Craig Bennett. Also there were at least two witnesses that reported seeing RFG with the a woman in the SoS on Friday.

An employee at the Packwood House, Jennifer Snyder, was one of the witnesses. There were at least two other witnesses.

 

[SeekingJana]

I had the same impression regarding the master bedrooms. Of course, they could have had separate bedrooms.

I had a reply all ready to send and there was a glitch.
Let me try this again.

No blame or pointing fingers assigned in the following considerations of what may or may not be factual. These are my thoughts based upon the new thought that maybe Ray and Patty slept in separate rooms. I am NOT referring to anything intimate in my post.

I have thought of the following for the first time. MAYBE I'm 10.8 years late. Maybe this is something that other posters may not have thought about and MAYBE something about the " They may have slept in separate rooms" based upon the NEW photos of Patty's house on Zillow will stimulate new case thought and discussion. Otherwise, I would not speak of such a private thing out of respect.

However, I am addressing this from my perspective as a lady and it's just MY OPINION.
I have some rather unsettling thoughts regarding what we are told about the morning of the 15th.

As I know it, there are 2 possibly conflicting statements issued by Patty: 1) He was asleep when she left for work. She left a note for him. OK, so does this mean that if they occupied separate bedrooms she went in and LOOKED at him asleep? Who does that other than a stalker, which she obviously was not, living in the home. So if they were sleeping in separate rooms, how would she KNOW he was asleep?
The most obvious answer to me is that she didn't know, but also didn't want to state that they possibly slept in separate bedrooms. It is understood by me, as a female, that it is a bit embarrassing to possibly very embarrassing to have one's personal bedroom arrangements questioned.

2) Secondly, the story she gave about the AM of the 15th was that she gave him a glass of juice.
This would mean he was awake unless she gave it via gastric gavage. ( nurse humor- sorry).
It means that he was awake, and took the glass of juice and drank it.
If he was up and about, then it would be easy to know that one's housemate was awake, and to do something companionable like pouring O.J. out of the carton or bottle.
There is NO reason in this explanation to even consider where either person had slept the night before inside the residence, in my opinion.

So, why are there two conflicting statements about the last time Patty saw him?
In my life, the only time I've hedged in telling the complete truth was when it would be embarrassing for me to have told more. And I've never known anyone who went missing and is probably dead. I do believe I would have suffered embarrassment in order to tell the truth once his disappearance became a police matter.

My last point: Unrelated to the house arrangements.
This fine man, a D.A., a long time attorney, a father, loved, respected, gone 10.8 years, has STILL NOT had any time of memorial service held in his memory to HONOR HIM.
For the love of Pete, are none of those who have said for years that they love him and miss him not ever going to hold a memorial service which brings closure? Not investigative closure, but closure in the area of R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

I have never been upset about the lack of a memorial service because I have thought that maybe Patty had hope that he would return to her. But, in selling the home he shared with her, how would she be thinking he would return? I do not know where she moved, or whether it's to a new relationship, even a possible re-marriage ( she was divorced when she met Ray).

Who will honor this man? Who can come up with enough energy and love for him to give him a likely final Catholic service of some sort? ( I am sorry but I do not know much about Catholic services).

We all know there's no body. We also know he's been declared dead for a few years now. Isn't the time to hold a memorial service before everyone who knew him and worked with him and cared about him have also died, moved on, or just stopped caring about the issue all together?
I'm not happy with the lack of final respects in a place of worship and prayer, and a spiritual leader, whether Catholic or not.
If I'm the only person considering these elements of what I view as utter callousness, then I apologize. Maybe PA residents need to tell me how they honor their lost loved ones who are presumed deceased?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I didn't anything on a post, just the photos.

I was thinking that there were four bedroom, and RFG and PEF could have slept in separate rooms. If the door was open, she could have seen RFG sleeping. He did, according to her story, get up and use the bathroom. There is also the possibility that PEF would normally wake RFG, if they were in separate rooms.

On the juice, I thing she left it out for him.

In Catholic practice, mass can be said for the dead. It is done after death, and, except for an announcement at the service, it might not be known generally.

There can be a memorial service, which would not need to be religious, even without a body. As far as I know, none were held in the Bellefonte area.

 

[wijg]

SJ,

I had the same thought re: the bedrooms. I get the feeling they slept in separate rooms. The TV seems to be a giveaway as well. That TV is so antiquated, I wonder if it's even compatible with the digital switchover that took place in 2009. Of course, Patty might not know that if she had never used the TV these last several years. And that strengthens the idea that she didn't sleep in that room.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was thinking something along the lines of one of them snoring, or having the "jimmy-legs" as Seinfeld referred to it (leg twitches).

 

[Itsmevkb]

I was thinking something along the lines of one of them snoring, or having the "jimmy-legs" as Seinfeld referred to it (leg twitches).

Off topic but I got the jimmy-legs all the time during my pregnancies. It was rough, for me and for my husband and there were times he would go sleep on the couch.

 

[wijg]

The boxes may not, but there was a "Billy Wahoo" Cleveland Indian's logo magnet on the refrigerator.

"Billy Wahoo" is not the name of the Indians mascot. It's simply "Chief Wahoo". Nowhere has he ever been referred to as Billy.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

"Billy Wahoo" is not the name of the Indians mascot. It's simply "Chief Wahoo". Nowhere has he ever been referred to as Billy.

Billy Wahoo was the name used by a poster in another board. I thought it was the mascot's name. Billy was an Indians fan.

 

[asp17061]

I pop in to see if there's still activity--glad to see everyone is still posting their ideas and thoughts. We're coming up on 11 years; this case still baffles and saddens. I feel the current judicial nonsense statewide is pushing this aside---Central Pennsylvania Gothic is a pretty good description for it. I was recently up in Lewisburg and thought of him.

Is there, somewhere, a good timeline? There are now softwares specifically for the construction of timelines. This is one that I use: http://www.scribblecode.com/

If there was a timeline I could probably build one in that although it would take me quite some time.

also, if he did go into the river and was snagged somewhere, maybe the new bridge being constructed south of Lewisburg for the Central Susquehanna Valley Thruway will find something--I see in its plans it does cross an island midriver. (I think this is unlikely--I'm just tossing it out there).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What type of a timeline? Of the witness reports, of what was released post disappearance, of RFG's life before or of the things leading up to the disappearance (i.e. when he asked about cleaning the computer)?

I actually have a lot of that stuff.