PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[J. J. in Phila]

I still keep coming back to victim #1. Sensitive information that would have haunted him in his retirement for not going after JS and PSU. Also a good argument for the suicide theory. Only question I have is if a payoff was involved or not. Before anyone has a hissy fit, look at the current Philadelphia DA mess. Lots more just like it. No matter how honest and forthwrite some one appears, are no sacred cows in public service positions.

He was not seen with anyone other than the mystery woman, so I am less inclined to think he was murdered.

I think that would be Victim 6.

Well, in terms of suicide, RFG could have gone into the office on 4/15/05 and drafted charges against Sandusky. There was no political cost for that; he was not going to run for anything. He wasn't even planning to go into private practice.

I have looked at the possibility that RFG was getting payoffs, or was blackmailing, one or more people. I looked at it before I ever heard about Sandusky, and after the scandal broke.

Any District Attorney of Centre County would be in a position to blackmail people or get bribes. There is not anything that would point to RFG getting elicit payoffs. He didn't suddenly buy a lot of valuable assets, like a Mercedes, or a big house. He didn't have a lot of assets in the bank when he disappeared. When looking at RFG's assets, nobody is saying, "Hey, where did Ray get all this money?"

It is possible, of course, to send this money offshore, but, so far, there isn't any evidence.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped:

In reality, other than Olivia Newton John's boyfriend, isn't disappearing oneself rather rare? Not too many people walk away and just disappear off the face of the earth or fake a death or suicide...just to leave their life behind...maybe if they are running from something or they are in serious trouble, but really? has anyone here ever known someone who bailed like this? Alchoholics , dopers and hobos..but usually they are known for disappearing, they are homeless or have mental illness and someone in the family or a friend will know or have an idea where they might be.

One was a college president, one was a small town police chief.

if it's WPP, it must have been a very , very serious situation and he will never be able to emerge again or his life would be in serious danger.
and with no one being convinced he is dead, then i would think PEF and his daughter would be potential targets for retaliation.

Why didn't he testify before the grand jury, or in the recent Spanier trial?

the things Ray was doing before he disappeared tell us something was urgent, something was pressing...I never knew he made two attempts to dispose of the laptop...think of it, he was willfully driving around trying to dump this stuff.

We can't be sure the trip to Raystown Lake was to toss the laptop, though it is a good possibility.

and why won't this person come forward?

There could be several reasons, if it was suicide or if the smoker was not someone who killed RFG or helped him walk away.

1. It was just a random encounter and smoker just didn't remember. He/she could have been asking RFG for directions, for the time, or for change for a ten. The smoker just didn't remember it.

2. The person couldn't reveal that he/she was with RFG. For example, what if was a lover and the lover was married; she may not have wanted to go to the police. It also could be a lover somehow connected to a defendant, SO, sister, mother or a witness and it would be incriminating if she was the last person to see a missing, and maybe murdered, DA.

I'm just tossing out possibilities.

 

[Daisy1980]

If there is a core group who would not mind spending a long day and possibly a night in Lewisburg, we can do "some" things to look at this case. A walk of the area as JJ has done may give a fresh perspective. I have an eye for points of egress and the ability to quickly search wooded areas if we can gain access. I also now have two forensic ground probes with two more on the way. I also am waiting for delivery of one of the highest rated forensic metal detectors with a special search coil. Right now would have been an opportune time since it is warm enough and the weeds, vines and poison ivy have not started to grow, however I have to finish investigating the Lauren Jackson case first and have a heavy workload at my job. Fall will be the next opportunity. I really believe we need a multi pronged approach to this. One is a boots on the ground evaluation of the PLS, including the parking lot, SOS and all other areas of interest with photographic documentation. Next is driving the RFG route from Bellefonte to Lewisburg, noting any spots of interest along the route, again with photographic documentation. Next is a deep forensics analysis of all RFG's finances, including what I purchased and what JJ has. Last is a search of the wooded areas around the PLS. Later we can take a look at the parking lot where one employee claimed to see RFG after he went missing, checking camera angle etc if possible and such things as other points of egress including air, road and sea.

Try google streetview player....I know its not quite the same but it is helpful for visualizing a trip from point A to point B.

 

[Valiant]

In reality, other than Olivia Newton John's boyfriend, isn't disappearing oneself rather rare? Not too many people walk away and just disappear off the face of the earth or fake a death or suicide...just to leave their life behind...maybe if they are running from something or they are in serious trouble, but really? has anyone here ever known someone who bailed like this? Alchoholics , dopers and hobos..but usually they are known for disappearing, they are homeless or have mental illness and someone in the family or a friend will know or have an idea where they might be.

There was a missing persons case on this site that got a lot of discussion and in the end, it turned out the guy had just walked away to start another life. Nick Francisco.

 

[minazoe]

Wonder if he was closeted and ran off to be gay. I knew a girl whose boyfriend always encouraged her to wear short hair and mannish unfeminine outfits..years later...BOOM...GAY !

could a guy of his generation be so deeply ashamed that he might run away? could the things on that laptop have indicated something regarding his sexuality?

I feel like someone would have talked by now.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wonder if he was closeted and ran off to be gay. I knew a girl whose boyfriend always encouraged her to wear short hair and mannish unfeminine outfits..years later...BOOM...GAY !

could a guy of his generation be so deeply ashamed that he might run away? could the things on that laptop have indicated something regarding his sexuality?

I feel like someone would have talked by now.

From what I have heard, absolutely not. RFG divorced his second wife, asked another woman to marry him and moved in with PEF, in less than 3 years. He has been describe as a "ladies man."

State College is a fairly tolerant place, with a number of people being openly gay. It might have made a difference in an election, but he wasn't running for anything, or planning to run for anything, after the 2001 race.

RFG was nominally Catholic, but I've never heard of him even attending mass. "Christmas Catholic" is how I've heard him described. Committing homosexual acts would be considered sinful in the Catholic Church. So would marrying again after a divorce while the first spouse in alive. I'm not seeing that as a reason.

The few photos I seen of EG, the second wife, she was not mannish.

It obviously is not impossible, but it really doesn't fit with the information that we all have.

 

[Trackergd]

As I said, it could be something nasty. Maybe he was going to a site like "Hot Croatian Babes," or something like that (I have no idea if that is a real site, or not). He might not have wanted others to have known that. Maybe it some type of on line chat room. He was an adult and, unless they are underage, it was legal. It might be something he'd want broadcast across the county, however.

We have found out that a number of judges and prosecutor do look at that type of stuff. PA had two Supreme Court Justices that resigned over it.

An this would be a reasonable scenario...if he had not gone missing the same/next day. This only works for me if he had met someone on a website he had decided to run off with, but giving up a pension and severing ties with his daughter for a new lover? Not impossible, people do odd things in the name of love, but highly unlikely.

The "mystery woman" is an odd twist. Having muddled this one for years, the only reasons she never came forward that makes sense to me are Attorney/Client privilege, criminal activity, Federal Government involvement or one heck of a confidant/enabler.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

An this would be a reasonable scenario...if he had not gone missing the same/next day. This only works for me if he had met someone on a website he had decided to run off with, but giving up a pension and severing ties with his daughter for a new lover? Not impossible, people do odd things in the name of love, but highly unlikely.

One thing that I am considering is that RFG wanting to get rid of the laptop, was not related to his disappearance.

We know that RFG wanted the data on his computer destroyed and researched water damage. We also know he was looking at both Raystown Lake and Lewisburg.

Here is a hypothetical:

RFG was planning to toss the laptop into Raystown on 4/14, and then return home. He either couldn't get a boat and/or ran into someone he knew, and decided to it was unwise to do it then.

On 4/15/05, RFG still wanted to get rid of the laptop, and was planning to go to Lewisburg for some other reason. He realized that he could get rid of the laptop there, before he does what he's planning to do.

Whatever RFG is planning to do, will take place in the late afternoon/evening of 4/15. He gets their early 12:15 to 1:00 PM, pulls in near the river takes out the drive. Then he toss it and then crosses the bridge, recrosses it and tosses the laptop. He goes on to do what he planned to do. After doing whatever it was, he plans goes home.

I think that it is hugely likely that RFG is the person who tossed the drive and laptop, but I don't know that it is related to his disappearance.

The "mystery woman" is an odd twist. Having muddled this one for years, the only reasons she never came forward that makes sense to me are Attorney/Client privilege, criminal activity, Federal Government involvement or one heck of a confidant/enabler.

I think all of those are possible, but I would include meeting a lover. I would also include the possibility of him talking to a random shopper or even that it wasn't RFG.

I would call "confidant/enabler" a "helper" and would say that he/she would have these three characteristics:

A. Trustworthy. It would be someone show could be counted on to show up, and to handle any possible financial transactions. I would note that may of the people on my helper list are/were attorneys, so there could be a privilege issue.

B. Loyal. It would have to be someone wouldn't claim a reward, or see Lara crying at the first news conference and feel obliged to talk.

C. Proximate. It would have to be someone in the general area, someone who could get to Lewisburg.

 

[SeekingJana]

Here's a scenario for all of you: Note that it ties up WHY HE MIGHT HAVE WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO HAVE A " HARD DRIVE FRIED", as well as " If he left voluntarily, how did he live financially.?"
Ray either met someone online, or re-connected online with someone he had once had deep feelings for. Obviously, we do not know who, or if this happened.

Let's go with- " It could have happened". He was living with Patty, it was not going anywhere, but was " comfortable", and he felt a great responsibility for Patty, emotionally and morally.. Ditto for his grown daughter, Lara, but in different ways of course.
But, BOOM, at the age of 59, he was head over heels in love with someone he dearly wanted to spend the rest of his life with, and the other woman felt the same way.

There IS a scenario which would explain:
1) How he disappeared more fully than we think we know
2) How he's lived financially aside from any savings that might be outside the USA
3) WHY he could leave his pension to Patty and Lara and leave.
4) Why he wanted the evidence of the two lovers' correspondence to disappear.

Here's the part that no one adds:
The woman whom he left with or left to go to is/ was extremely wealthy on her own. SHE had the means and the finances to get him out of the country and to where she was, or to the place they had decided to meet in and settle down in.

No one EVER considers that there may be a very wealthy WOMAN involved.. The focus is solely on what Ray had or didn't have financially on his own.
IF the woman exists and he's not long deceased somewhere, she could well be wealthy from a deceased husband's fortunes, or through her own enterprise in her career, or could have been born into a wealthy family.
MAYBE he " traded up" in every sense of the word!

I'd leave an ordinary life close to retirement for a life of great excitement and promise. Like I said, I'm very close to the age he was when he disappeared now. Time flies! I do not feel old, and I would leave my entire life behind for the chance to know an exciting love that was very full of promise and that was adventurous in ways most people do not know unless they are extremely wealthy, or have an extremely wealthy partner/ spouse/ lover. I did have this. I have flown to Paris for a weekend. I have known great privilege from wealth, because another person had it, not me. I was loved very much, but I was not comfortable with some caveats in the situation at that time. Now, it's much different. Sometimes, we meet the right person at the wrong time. Maybe Ray did but got his " do over".

Here's why I think this could have happened and WHY he would have been extremely smart to walk away from everyone he'd ever known without a word.
Loving someone, and then leaving them creates guilt. A lot of the time, the other person tries to get their lover back. E,g, Patty's press conference where she begs Ray " Just please, come home, Ray".
Maybe she suspected there was online late night messaging and emailing going on but couldn't prove it, if this did happen.. We don't know.
So, as a man who'd had his share of women wanting money, commitment, other things from him, he left in a very " creative" way. ON HIS TERMS.
Did he know that people would be wondering where he was many years later? Of course not!!
He likely thought it would keep the local police busy and befuddled for a while, yes, because I don't think he liked them anyway, but not a national Missing Persons case, NO.
Still, he didn't commit a crime ( except the matter of the old laptop being dumped).. He didn't leave anything suggesting foul play.

There'a another thing connected to being the lover or spouse of an extremely wealthy person.. People from the past, and I mean, back to childhood, can want and almost expect that you are their bank, their benefactor, their Fairy God mother/ Godfather, their own personal charity.
True story: There was a very wealthy man in my past, and this is someone people in my home state connected me to, although we parted ways. I was not living that life any longer. People from my past assumed I was wealthy because they remembered how I left town and the state and who I was with at the time.. . . During just one week on Facebook, ( my last week, BTW) I had people message me asking for:
1) A laptop computer ( from someone who was a cousin of a girl I knew in school). I DID send a slightly used, totally clean hard drive laptop because the need was for a college student in a very worthwhile field of study.
2) Someone else asked for a large house payment to be paid for them by me. I had not seen the man in over 35 years, and had only ever known him as a boy who was a fellow school band member of our HS band., I declined and have never heard from him again. Loser.
3) Payment for a lady's breast implant revision and her son's orthodontia. ( The very tenuous tie to her- I worked with her when I was in college at a jewelry store during Christmas break). My assessment is that she is a borderline personality disordered person. My mother said " She's always been crazy. Don't send her a thing". As if I would have paid for her to " beautify herself", LOL. Also, since the son didn't hatch from a nest, he had a father who was responsible for things like medical care and braces on his teeth. SMH!!

Maybe I want to think that Ray left Bellefonte for a fabulous, exciting life so much that it's my fantasy ending for him. I think there is some projection, but also , I do know how exciting and special it can be to be in a long term relationship with a very high profile man who is, and whose friends and family were multi-millionaires. The man was right, the timing was wrong for a couple of minor reasons that I didn't bother to work out.
IF I somehow re-connected with one man now, instead of leaving him, I'd definitely go to him and I'd stay there too!

I hope Ray found someone so very special that she was his very own personal secret for reasons of his HEART. Not to share with anyone else he'd ever known, but to create a new life with..
I know this is not a romance novel we live in, but MANY people do live extraordinary lives. Some of them want an intelligent, nice- looking, sincere and devoted partner more than people ever suspect unless they are close enough to hear and see the longing and the sincerity for something true and real. Money doesn't change what a heart wants.

 

[cricket49]

This week it will be 12 years since Ray Gricar disappeared. This case has always perplexed and haunted me. It seems strange that so many years have passed and no evidence or person has come forward about his disappearance. I wonder if the police or FBI know more about the case but never publicized all the details.

My wish is that one day someone finds Ray Gricar alive or someone comes forward to fill in all the blanks of what happened that day.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This week it will be 12 years since Ray Gricar disappeared. This case has always perplexed and haunted me. It seems strange that so many years have passed and no evidence or person has come forward about his disappearance. I wonder if the police or FBI know more about the case but never publicized all the details.

My wish is that one day someone finds Ray Gricar alive or someone comes forward to fill in all the blanks of what happened that day.

Yes, they do. I don't know all that they know, but there are things that were not publicly acknowledged.

 

[cricket49]

I know all three theories have been debated forever. However, if he did walk away and the FBI or police know that is the case are they obligated by law to tell everyone? Or can they keep it a secret from the media? It is not against the law to walk away from your life but will LE protect you and your decision?

 

[colette]

I know all three theories have been debated forever. However, if he did walk away and the FBI or police know that is the case are they obligated by law to tell everyone? Or can they keep it a secret from the media? It is not against the law to walk away from your life but will LE protect you and your decision?

or.... witness protection?????

 

[SeekingJana]

I read this today, and it made me think of Ray immediately:
" The most difficult good-byes are the ones which are unexpected and unexplained:."

In a way, we've been saying a form of " Good-bye" to him for 12 years now as of April 17 or so, when his name, photo and case info hit the national news as a Missing Persons case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I know all three theories have been debated forever. However, if he did walk away and the FBI or police know that is the case are they obligated by law to tell everyone? Or can they keep it a secret from the media? It is not against the law to walk away from your life but will LE protect you and your decision?

No, they are no obligated to tell anyone. There would be more pressure to tell if the public was in danger. In some cases, the police will tell if that is what they think, e.g. Mel Wiley. In others, Nick Francisco for example, they didn't until they actually found him.

[rant]
Part of the problem is what I call "legacy protection," some people care more about making RFG look good than finding out what happened to him; the people that were looking for him were people that had respect for him and wouldn't release anything they thought was damaging.

An example of that was the "mystery woman." It was not well publicized until more than a year after RFG disappeared. The police had known about the computer searches for 2.5 years before they released the information. Some people are/were worried about how it make RFG look. [/rant]

SPM stated that "homicide was the least likely," of the three main possibilities. In theory that could be a 32%, 34%, 34% split.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It has been 12 years sing RFG disappeared. If he is alive, he is 71.

A white male of his age should live to be about 82-83.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus15.pdf#015

 

[SeekingJana]

It has been 12 years sing RFG disappeared. If he is alive, he is 71.

A white male of his age should live to be about 82-83.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus15.pdf#015

I hope and pray, on the deepest spiritual level, that he is alive, that he is healthy, happy, and free of whatever may have vexed or stifled him in Bellefonte, PA.
I hope he found exactly what he was looking for in this life, or, as God's will is perfect, in the life hereafter.

I will never forget him and his life's work and his choice to be the father to a little girl, as much as I know about his life, which is much more rich than the fact that he is considered to be " Missing".
He is one of a few people in this world that I didn't meet and wish I had. One case poster also fits into this same group.


I hope he is living a very happy life out of the spotlight, in a safe place, knows great love from a partner, and maybe other children. I hope that he was able to create the life he dreamed of, not shared with anyone else in his 2005 life.
Ray Gricar, here's to you, :toast:. A remembrance, and much more of a celebration of your life today than the overwhelming need to know where you are.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So far, this is it for the press: http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...e-of-missing-centre-county-da-gricar,1471768/

 

[pittsburghgirl]

He's almost certainly dead. Nothing in his life suggested that he would walk away from his daughter.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He's almost certainly dead. Nothing in his life suggested that he would walk away from his daughter.

Several possibilities:

1. He realized his daughter had her own life on the other side of the continent.

2. They may not have that close. RFG wasn't her custodial parent in her teen years, and had not been part of her household for more than a decade. As noted, for several years prior to his disappearance, they were a continent apart. They would call each other, but they were just brief "check-in" calls.

3. He may have been in contact with her. It could have been via an intermediary.

4. He felt that this was a better way to provide for his daughter.

Whether or not the first and last points were RFG's intent, that has been the result. His daughter continued on with her life, and was financially better off than if RFG had filled out his term and retired. On the last point, that could easily be a motive for suicide as well.