PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[J. J. in Phila]

what happened to his money? ( it really is weird isn't it?). his house was just meh..I mean what did he do with his money? doesn't look like he was spending it, so where is it?
Id love to see what a money person would think about Rays income/ combined income etc..

very odd for the DA to leave empty coffers.( I sense a second mystery in the money angle of this story) mOO

Good question. I wish I had an answer.

 

[bykerladi]

He left his daughter his pension benefit, so I would not see too much bad in that.

Oh yes, because every daughter would rather have a pension than her father.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

what happened to his money? ( it really is weird isn't it?). his house was just meh..I mean what did he do with his money? doesn't look like he was spending it, so where is it?
Id love to see what a money person would think about Rays income/ combined income etc..

very odd for the DA to leave empty coffers.( I sense a second mystery in the money angle of this story) mOO

Good question. I wish I had an answer.

Oh yes, because every daughter would rather have a pension than her father.

Well, she was not part of his daily life for years. They lived about 2500 miles apart.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Good question. I wish I had an answer.


Well, she was not part of his daily life for years. They lived about 2500 miles apart.

Adult children are not supposed to be part of your " daily life". They are supposed to have their own lives.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Adult children are not supposed to be part of your " daily life". They are supposed to have their own lives.

Agreed, but the question was would RFG be willing to leave his daughter. The answer is, "possibly."

 

[Trackergd]

OK team, here we go. I had to find an individual that was a tad over 6' and a mini. Today the stars aligned and I had both, at no charge. Reaching across from the drivers seat as far as he could holding the laptop out of the passenger window, he was able to reach out 21" from window edge to outer tip of laptop and 44" from road to bottom of laptop. Pictures to follow as soon as possible. J.J has previously noted the approximate height of the wall along the bridge. Keep in mind that the Mini would have to be 8" to 12" away from the concrete barrier due to how far the mirrors stick out. Now could RG have reached far enough and high enough to toss the laptop from the Mini, over the wall and into the river, or was there someone in the passenger seat? The weight and aerodynamics of a laptop would preclude it being tossed like a Frisbee I would think.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

OK team, here we go. I had to find an individual that was a tad over 6' and a mini. Today the stars aligned and I had both, at no charge. Reaching across from the drivers seat as far as he could holding the laptop out of the passenger window, he was able to reach out 21" from window edge to outer tip of laptop and 44" from road to bottom of laptop. Pictures to follow as soon as possible. J.J has previously noted the approximate height of the wall along the bridge. Keep in mind that the Mini would have to be 8" to 12" away from the concrete barrier due to how far the mirrors stick out. Now could RG have reached far enough and high enough to toss the laptop from the Mini, over the wall and into the river, or was there someone in the passenger seat? The weight and aerodynamics of a laptop would preclude it being tossed like a Frisbee I would think.

Good job!!!!!

The photo might show this, but did he dangle it out the window or rest it on the the widow well?

 

[Trackergd]

Good job!!!!!

The photo might show this, but did he dangle it out the window or rest it on the the widow well?

He held it out as far and high as he could from his position leaning over the center console.

Trying to figure out how to upload pictures. I may have to make them smaller.

 

[Trackergd]

Hopefully these load Ok...

 

[Trackergd]

Sorry, did two of the same in the last post...

 

[Trackergd]

If the consensus is that RG could have tossed the laptop from the passenger window, over the concrete barricade and into the river, my guess is he drove across the bridge from Lewisburg to the other side, turned around and came back across, pulling over as close to the barricade as he dared, tossed the laptop, then a few second later, the hard drive. If the consensus is that RG could not have, it would suggest a two person scenario.

 

[Trackergd]

My next question is did any LE entity do any forensic investigation of possible scenario's or did they just give up after the ground search and dog alert and rely on tips from the public? I'm wondering how deep the investigation into this case went?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My next question is did any LE entity do any forensic investigation of possible scenario's or did they just give up after the ground search and dog alert and rely on tips from the public? I'm wondering how deep the investigation into this case went?

As far as I know, LE didn't do any experimentation. RFG's nephews looked at it and, without any experimentation, concluded that the driver of the Mini could have tossed it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

While the laptop is not aerodynamic, could it be tossed up a bit from that position. I was thinking of an arcing a bit that could extend the distance of the toss.

 

[Trackergd]

But if you miscalculate, you run the risk of hitting the barricade and the laptop ends up down on the road surface. You would have to stop, get out, pick it up and then be very exposed to view when tossing it into the river. Just a thought....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

But if you miscalculate, you run the risk of hitting the barricade and the laptop ends up down on the road surface. You would have to stop, get out, pick it up and then be very exposed to view when tossing it into the river. Just a thought....

There is a big difference in height between the barrier and the bottom of the window.

 

[minazoe]

couldn't you kinda whip it out like a frisbee? seems like not the best way to get rid of a laptop.

I still go to witness protection and a planned disappearance ..I mean it never made any sense to expect the WPP to reveal Ray's fate.

I wonder if this is in fact what happened to Ray..still. I Know , I know...I know...mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

couldn't you kinda whip it out like a frisbee? seems like not the best way to get rid of a laptop.

Snipped for emphasis only.

The easiest way would be to carry the laptop along the walkway on the south side of the bridge and drop it over the side.

 

[Trackergd]

It appears that the bridge was retrofitted at some point with single face median barriers on both sides with a top railing on the down river side.

A drawing for a standard single face median is attached as are a couple of pictures to support my analysis of what concrete barriers are in place.

Looking at the foot at the bottom of the barrier, you would have to keep some distance between the car tires and the barrier as well as allow for some clearance for the mini's mirrors.

The outer tip of the laptop during our test was around 21".

The barrier is 1' 3" wide and the car tire would be around "8-10" from the bottom foot of the barrier so as not to risk hitting it as the driver would be guessing the distance. So the lip of the window to the far edge of the barrier would be around 23" to 25".

Sill trying to figure out how close RG could have pulled to the barrier, even with no traffic behind him.

Clear to me that the laptop could not have been tossed from the car on the down river side of the bridge due to the railing.

Going to take some additional measurements on the mini. No way to know how close your passenger side tires are from the foot of the barrier from the drivers seat.

Standard single face barriers are 42" high and I have established that a 6" person can reach over from the drivers seat and get that laptop around 44" high.

 

[Trackergd]

The mirrors stick out around 5" as measured from the edge of the wheel well. So if the tire was hard up against the base of the barricade, the mirror would not be hitting the concrete. The unknown factor would be the distance between the tires and the barricade that RG would have felt comfortable with given it is hard to judge from the drivers seat. To me, 6" would have been the minimum.