PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is the first half of the story: The hunt for Ray Gricar: 15 years of clues, theories and the search for answers | News, Sports, Jobs - The Express

 

[madfrank]

Here is the first half of the story: The hunt for Ray Gricar: 15 years of clues, theories and the search for answers | News, Sports, Jobs - The Express

A bit disappointed by McKelvey's piece, which seemed in need of an editor. It was welcome, of course, but scattered. A good anniversary article should be tight and thorough, and this was neither.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A bit disappointed by McKelvey's piece, which seemed in need of an editor. It was welcome, of course, but scattered. A good anniversary article should be tight and thorough, and this was neither.

It seemed like he was writing more about the people in the investigation than the investigation: I will grant that. He, perhaps without intending, destroyed Buehner's source. There were key difference in what "Mineshaft guy" said and what Buehner's correspondent said.

 

[madfrank]

It seemed like he was writing more about the people in the investigation than the investigation: I will grant that. He, perhaps without intending, destroyed Buehner's source. There were key difference in what "Mineshaft guy" said and what Buehner's correspondent said.

He attempted to be the star of the piece and he's nowhere near interesting enough to use that approach. Read like stale doughnuts and cold coffee. Hard to make a case this interesting seem as perfunctory as that article managed to do.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He attempted to be the star of the piece and he's nowhere near interesting enough to use that approach. Read like stale doughnuts and cold coffee. Hard to make a case this interesting seem as perfunctory as that article managed to do.

There is not too much new in the case. The entire mine shaft scenario has problems.

At this point, everyone seems to agree that there something unusual with the money.

I am to the point of saying, "Follow the money."

 

[Kittybunny]

Here is the first half of the story: The hunt for Ray Gricar: 15 years of clues, theories and the search for answers | News, Sports, Jobs - The Express

I read the whole thing, and really appreciated it. It was great to hear from Tony Gricar, who was so gracious in discussing the case on the boards back in the day. There were also a few things I had forgotten, but the main one is that I either wasn't here for, or don't remember an in-depth discussion of the mineshaft theory. At the time it was discussed, maybe on the old Court TV boards, it was more of a biker club thing, it didn't have a lot of detail or credibility. I must say it absolutely gives me pause. Without knowing the details of what was investigated and what wasn't, it's hard to dismiss it outright. There is a slight air of plausibility about it. But as usual with this case, it could be something...or it could be nothing.

Wherever you are, Ray Gricar, I hope you're at peace.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No, it was discussed in depth here. There were always problems with the story,

First, this is a different person than the Altoona Mirror informant (AM). I'll call him PennLive guy (PL).

1. AM said that RFG was brutally tortured and had his throat slash. PL guy said RFG was attacked in a motel room and strangled.

2. AM said that RFG was murdered as revenge. PL said RFG was murdered to stop a big drug bust (a drug bust that RFG was not really involved in).

3. AM said the mine shaft was covered over with dirt. PL said that the shaft was under water.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I read the whole thing, and really appreciated it. It was great to hear from Tony Gricar, who was so gracious in discussing the case on the boards back in the day. There were also a few things I had forgotten, but the main one is that I either wasn't here for, or don't remember an in-depth discussion of the mineshaft theory. At the time it was discussed, maybe on the old Court TV boards, it was more of a biker club thing, it didn't have a lot of detail or credibility. I must say it absolutely gives me pause. Without knowing the details of what was investigated and what wasn't, it's hard to dismiss it outright. There is a slight air of plausibility about it. But as usual with this case, it could be something...or it could be nothing.

Wherever you are, Ray Gricar, I hope you're at peace.

Most of the discussion was on the missing Thread #10, but some of it is on Thread #11, which is extant.

 

[minazoe]

hmm.I have to say I like the idea of Ray being murdered in a hotel room and his body hidden somewhere.

It could have been a set up where Ray went for a hook up and ended up murdered.

his car may never have been moved from across the street, but instead from a hotel parking lot, was it over a drug bust? maybe it was over something else...there are so many reasons someone would set up Ray...affair/cheating/ money/debts/failure to protect/ prosecution/ failure to cooperate with criminals/ bribery/ vice..

you name it. .. I know that the mob will torture you a little if you owe them money..break hands etc. otherwise they just shoot you, strangle you etc..

But they might torture someone if they wanted access to some bank numbers etc..

I am very interested in knowing about Ray's money and if Ray's money could have been a motive to kill him.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I can pretty much guarantee that the mob would not torture someone in a motel room. Too much blood and noise.

It is possible that RFG met a woman in Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is no evidence that RFG had a large cash withdrawal within 2003-05. He took out about $16,000 in cash over that period, but works out to about $125.00 a week.

 

[minazoe]

well we don't know what money he had elsewhere..aliases, off shore..who knows..

he definitely would know every possible way to hide money as a prosecutor.

and he was only withdrawing 125.00 a week in cash? this whole money thing

sounds bizarre. seriously bizarre. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

well we don't know what money he had elsewhere..aliases, off shore..who knows..

he definitely would know every possible way to hide money as a prosecutor.

and he was only withdrawing 125.00 a week in cash? this whole money thing

sounds bizarre. seriously bizarre. mOO

He had a major asset liquidation in 2001.

 

[minazoe]

was his divorce in 2001?

who the hell liquidates? wow that sounds like a bad divorce..seems like Ray may have decided never to go through a liquidation again and instead had control over all of his assets and a limit to what would be given or divided should things go south.

PEF would get the things he put in her name. up front.

wonder if this awful experience was the catalyst for some unusual money habits.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

was his divorce in 2001?

who the hell liquidates? wow that sounds like a bad divorce..seems like Ray may have decided never to go through a liquidation again and instead had control over all of his assets and a limit to what would be given or divided should things go south.

PEF would get the things he put in her name. up front.

wonder if this awful experience was the catalyst for some unusual money habits.

mOO

They woulld have had to have liquidated joint assets.

It does not look a bad divorce; it was settled in 3 months and they did not ask the court to split them.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

The Informant indicated RG was lured by a woman working with the pair. RG was seen talking to a woman while shopping at his last reported location.

I wouldn't be surprised if DNA from a cigarette butt(s) found near RG's vehicle was from a woman.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The Informant indicated RG was lured by a woman working with the pair. RG was seen talking to a woman while shopping at his last reported location.

I wouldn't be surprised if DNA from a cigarette butt(s) found near RG's vehicle was from a woman.

There were multiple butts that yielded DNA. I think it is from different people.

One problem is that there is no evidence of luring.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

There were multiple butts that yielded DNA. I think it is from different people.

One problem is that there is no evidence of luring.

The Informant's info is considered "evidence", no matter how circumstantial... and it does align with reports that RG was last seen with a woman as they browsed the antique mall.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The Informant's info is considered "evidence", no matter how circumstantial... and it does align with reports that RG was last seen with a woman as they browsed the antique mall.

That detail was publicly known be the time the informant gave his information.

 

[minazoe]

I think the ash came from who ever moved the car. I do not believe Ray moved the car. Perhaps someone saw the car being moved assuming it was Ray. mOO

note, I know the dogs picked up Ray's scent but it could have been anything right? maybe even a jacket that was removed from the car.

mOO