PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[minazoe]

hmmmm...his best friend thinks Ray took a walk, hmm. maybe he knows more than he is willing to say... as a best friend. because as a best friend if he thought for a moment his BFF was murdered , well wouldn't he give up the mystery woman if he knew who she was? wouldn't he move to turn over every stone?

now that Ray is declared dead does this mean his case is now closed? or is it just a cold case?

I would love to see this re-examined, would love to see a Dateline or Netflix Docu on it, something mainstream,

funny how time passing can draw people out of the woodwork.

mOO

 

[minazoe]

When I started, I looked at PEF. I initially looked at the possibility that RFG's call was to suggest to drive down to Lewisburg for dinner or for a cozy weekend. During this, there was a lover's quarrel, and FRG died. The problem is that that there just not enough time for PEF to get to Lewisburg and back to Bellefonte so she could leave the Courthouse at 4:30 PM and arrive at the gym even as late as 6:00 PM (and I think she arrived earlier).

what happens if you jiggle the numbers a little , stick a couple of extra hours in there..what did she do after the gym? It's hard not to look at PEF. mOO

 

[minazoe]

I always have a little niggle of suspicion when people have time stamps as part of their alibi,
like immediately during the time of the possible commission of a crime, as person comes up with cash station withdrawals, parking lot receipts, fast food etc..sign ins at the gym..things with times.

sends up red flags in my mind. mOO

 

[minazoe]

what if Ray didn't actually go missing in Lewis B but his car was returned to the area? what if he had gone home? How can we trust eyewitness accounts of a car? Do you remember where your neighbor parked his car or passed you in the alley 3 days ago? no way! I'm having issues..this case makes me CRAZY. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

what happens if you jiggle the numbers a little , stick a couple of extra hours in there..what did she do after the gym? It's hard not to look at PEF. mOO

She made calls to RFG's cellphone, where there will be an absolute electronic record of her location.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

what if Ray didn't actually go missing in Lewis B but his car was returned to the area? what if he had gone home? How can we trust eyewitness accounts of a car? Do you remember where your neighbor parked his car or passed you in the alley 3 days ago? no way! I'm having issues..this case makes me CRAZY. mOO

Let's assume someone drove the car back to Lewisburg.

1. How did the do it without leaving a trace of evidence in the Mini?

2. How did the person driving the car from Bellefonte get back to Bellefonte?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I always have a little niggle of suspicion when people have time stamps as part of their alibi,
like immediately during the time of the possible commission of a crime, as person comes up with cash station withdrawals, parking lot receipts, fast food etc..sign ins at the gym..things with times.

sends up red flags in my mind. mOO

In the day of cell phones, I don't. Most people leave an electronic trail.

 

[minazoe]

Let's assume someone drove the car back to Lewisburg.

1. How did the do it without leaving a trace of evidence in the Mini?

2. How did the person driving the car from Bellefonte get back to Bellefonte?

maybe they checked into the hotel and got a car the next day.
Maybe they found someone to help them cover it up , someone who came and got them from lewis b.

gloves? hat? anyone with knowledge of forensic evidence would know to carefully avoid leaving hair, fibers , DNA or fingerprints.

also there was a trace, the cigarette ash.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

maybe they checked into the hotel and got a car the next day.
Maybe they found someone to help them cover it up , someone who came and got them from lewis b.

gloves? hat? anyone with knowledge of forensic evidence would know to carefully avoid leaving hair, fibers , DNA or fingerprints.

also there was a trace, the cigarette ash.

mOO

Whether or not they had a motel does not make a difference. The person would have drive to Lewisburg and know that RFG was going to be coming.

It is next to impossible to be in a small area for an hour and not leave some forensic trace.

 

[minazoe]

well he could have been followed by someone he knows, he could have gotten in the car with this person.

let's say it wasn't Ray who moved the car to the lot. what reasons could there be to relocate the car? would it be more out of view from the street? mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

well he could have been followed by someone he knows, he could have gotten in the car with this person.

let's say it wasn't Ray who moved the car to the lot. what reasons could there be to relocate the car? would it be more out of view from the street? mOO

Well, to be followed, RFG would have had to have followed through Bellefonte and then several small towns, before getting on Route 192, which has some straight part, where a driver could see if there was anyone behind him. Upon reaching Lewisburg, he would then have to drive down several side streets to get to the SOS. It is exceptionally likely that, in the course of that 50 mile plus trip, RFG would have seen the person following.

The witnesses reported that it was RFG in the Mini in the parking lot. There was no evidence of anyone else was driving the Mini.

RFG, or anyone else, could have parked where it was found to partly hide it from the street. It could have been just an empty space.

 

[minazoe]

ok so maybe whoever murdered Ray took his keys and took a look inside the mini during the night looking for the laptop or something else..maybe looking for anything that might be clue that could lead to the killer. Maybe that person was smoking. The glove box is on the passenger side.

I'm not kidding. mOO

 

[minazoe]

Well, to be followed, RFG would have had to have followed through Bellefonte and then several small towns, before getting on Route 192, which has some straight part, where a driver could see if there was anyone behind him. Upon reaching Lewisburg, he would then have to drive down several side streets to get to the SOS. It is exceptionally likely that, in the course of that 50 mile plus trip, RFG would have seen the person following.

The witnesses reported that it was RFG in the Mini in the parking lot. There was no evidence of anyone else was driving the Mini.

RFG, or anyone else, could have parked where it was found to partly hide it from the street. It could have been just an empty space.

But maybe they just knew where Ray was and drove around looking for him...I guess that really screws up any and every timeline...or he was never followed from home, but the person following him was already in Lewisburg... or headed out soon after not really following as in tailing, because they knew the places he frequents there. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

But maybe they just knew where Ray was and drove around looking for him...I guess that really screws up any and every timeline...or he was never followed from home, but the person following him was already in Lewisburg... or headed out soon after not really following as in tailing, because they knew the places he frequents there. mOO

That is possible, though the laptop might have been unrelated. There is solid evidence that RFG wanted to destroy the drive in week before and that he wanted the data off the drive perhaps as long as a year before.

Meeting someone in Lewisburg is possible.

 

[minazoe]

yeah because what if someone was threatening to expose Ray. and what if they did? what if Ray was trying to get ahead of something, and it all went down anyway ( hence his nervous breakdown) and ( the injured party?) caught up with Ray and covered it all up?

maybe he tried to destroy all proof, but unknown to him he had already been ratted out.

I'm not pointing fingers...but I can see how this could have been a domestic violence situation with Ray as the victim.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, why hasn't it come out by now?

 

[minazoe]

who would tell?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

who would tell?

Whomever had something on him, in your example.

 

[minazoe]

well if I was a deranged and angry husband or wife and I offed a DA , I wouldn't tell anyone. if I was the paramour of the missing party , I wouldn't tell if in fear for my life. This is almost a perfect crime if indeed it's a murder. If the something they had on Ray was an illicit affair, then there's nothing to expose.

Maybe some hoteliers or restaurant bars may have seen this couple.. but if they met in hotels, it could be the woman/man reserving the room and Ray never appearing at check in.

I feel like everyone knew Ray was missing in a pretty short time. I think Ray's body would be found in the river if he had died there.

Do you know if a cadaver dog was taken to the lot and the mini?

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

well if I was a deranged and angry husband or wife and I offed a DA , I wouldn't tell anyone. if I was the paramour of the missing party , I wouldn't tell if in fear for my life. This is almost a perfect crime if indeed it's a murder. If the something they had on Ray was an illicit affair, then there's nothing to expose.

Maybe some hoteliers or restaurant bars may have seen this couple.. but if they met in hotels, it could be the woman/man reserving the room and Ray never appearing at check in.

I feel like everyone knew Ray was missing in a pretty short time. I think Ray's body would be found in the river if he had died there.

Do you know if a cadaver dog was taken to the lot and the mini?

mOO

The example I was referring to was if someone had "something" on RFG.

No, the cadaver dog was not taken to either place, because it was clear that no body was in either place.

LE did check all motels in the area, as did members of the family.