PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[Trackergd]

I'm not thinking of the creek. I'm thinking he might be in the undergrowth and ground litter. Considering the sleeping pills scenario. From Google street view and overhead view, it looks pretty thick in there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not thinking of the creek. I'm thinking he might be in the undergrowth and ground litter. Considering the sleeping pills scenario. From Google street view and overhead view, it looks pretty thick in there.

Over the last 15 years, it is probable that someone was through that area, even children playing (there is a park nearby). In winter, there would be no leaves.

At points, the banks along the Susquehanna are cleaned, so that creek area might have been as well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm going to brainstorm some ideas on how a suicide might ensure that his body wouldn't be found:
1) He could find an out-of-the-way storm drain to crawl into with a razorblade or a bottle of sleeping pills.
2) He could climb into a dumpster with a contractor garbage bag and tie himself into it from the inside.
3) He could sneak into a steel mill and jump into a vat of molten steel when no one was looking.
4) He could tie weights to himself and jump off a boat into a deep body of water.
5) He could find an abandoned house, fill the bathtub with acid or lye, and then climb into the tub.
6) He could dig a hole a rig it so that the dirt would fall back into the hole after he was in it.
7) If he knew where a large concrete pillar was going to be poured, he could climb into the form and wait.
8) If he knew of a large hollow tree, he could climb into it.
9) He could hike into the mountains and look for a very remote spot.
10) He could burrow into the deep muck of a pond or creek.
11) He could steal the identity of a dead person whose death had never been reported to the SSA and then then kill himself openly, knowing that he would be found but misidentified.
12) He could go to the nearest dam on a river and then jump in, knowing that his body would be crushed to bits.
13) He could find a hidden cavity in a building or other structure and crawl into it.
14) He could jump into a natural feature, like a volcano or sinkhole.
15) He could slither deep into an abandoned coal or anthracite mine.

I'm not suggesting that Ray did any one of those things; I'm just trying to figure out reasons why Ray's body might not have been found.

First, I like the out of the box thinking.

Second, a lot of these have problems:

1. These require an in-depth knowledge (no pun intended) of the site/ a lot of preparation.

2. Most would leave a scent trail.

3. Several would leave discoverable remains that be found accidentally.

For the general Lewisburg area, these would possible, though they would leave a scent trail: 1, 2, 9. 11, 13. There were multiple sinkholes in Centre County, but not in Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Duplicate post (again).

 

[browning]

J.J. what did Ray's girlfriend and his daughter think happened?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. what did Ray's girlfriend and his daughter think happened?

They testified that they thought he was dead; that was at the hearing to declare RFG dead.

 

[Ozoner]

They testified that they thought he was dead; that was at the hearing to declare RFG dead.

Does anyone in Ray's close circle suspect foul play, or do they all think that it was suicide?

 

[Ozoner]

Over the last 15 years, it is probable that someone was through that area, even children playing (there is a park nearby). In winter, there would be no leaves.

At points, the banks along the Susquehanna are cleaned, so that creek area might have been as well.

After a month, decomposition would be complete enough that a nude body would be unlikely to be noticed in an overgrown area. Clothing would be visible, but if Ray crawled into a concealed spot, it may just be that no one happened to spot him. Autumn leaves would cover even the clothing. Maybe he buried his clothes and used a rock to dig a very shallow grave for himself; he could have covered even his face with loose dirt. (His grave needn't be in the area mentioned; Ray could have walked for miles to screw up his courage before doing the deed.)

 

[browning]

They testified that they thought he was dead; that was at the hearing to declare RFG dead.

Ok but do they think he committed suicide or was he murdered?

 

[minazoe]

Ok but do they think he committed suicide or was he murdered?

I don't know the answer to this but I sense there is fear around his disappearance . How could there not be? Yes his daughter was interviewed, PF, etc.. but it just seems fraught with some unspoken knowledge, thats just my take.

Fear may be part of the reason this has not been solved. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Does anyone in Ray's close circle suspect foul play, or do they all think that it was suicide?

His closest friend, Steve Sloan, thinks he walked away.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

After a month, decomposition would be complete enough that a nude body would be unlikely to be noticed in an overgrown area. Clothing would be visible, but if Ray crawled into a concealed spot, it may just be that no one happened to spot him. Autumn leaves would cover even the clothing. Maybe he buried his clothes and used a rock to dig a very shallow grave for himself; he could have covered even his face with loose dirt. (His grave needn't be in the area mentioned; Ray could have walked for miles to screw up his courage before doing the deed.)

Still, that area has enough activity for the body to be spotted. There would also be the smell.

 

[browning]

His closest friend, Steve Sloan, thinks he walked away.

J.J. what do his girlfriend and daughter think happened? Suicide, murder, walkway?

 

[Quiet Time]

His closest friend, Steve Sloan, thinks he walked away.

I wonder why he thinks that?..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. what do his girlfriend and daughter think happened? Suicide, murder, walkway?

I don't know. They had RFG declared dead, but the uncle said it was "administrative," which is understandable.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder why he thinks that?..

Based on some of his conversations with RFG. RFG was interested in traveling; the Mel Wiley interest also played a part in that. RFG's finances also raised this as a possibility.

 

[browning]

I would love to see someone make an effort to interview his daughter and girlfriend and get their take. Would be very interesting.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would love to see someone make an effort to interview his daughter and girlfriend and get their take. Would be very interesting.

The last time they were talking widely to the press, it was 2006. At that point, both did not believe RFG dead. In PEF's case, it was due to a lack of a body.

 

[minazoe]

I don't know. They had RFG declared dead, but the uncle said it was "administrative," which is understandable.

that's interesting that the uncle makes a point of that. "administrative" not " oh yes sadly we feel Ray is no longer with us and it's time to close the book".

hmm.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm also going to be clear about this. While the opinion of those close to RFG carries a bit of weight, it does not carry too much weight. How many times have we, in a criminal case, had those people close to the the perpetrator say, "He/she couldn't possibly have done that?"