PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[embufum]

I think the person in Lewisburg has remained there.

Yes as far as I can see.

 

[minazoe]

regarding the PO Boxes.. maybe two people have a business together? two people one PO Box...hmmm.

or a shared hobby or something? an alias? maybe they split the cost of the box and receive private mail or checks there, a place to receive anonymous mail? inquiries in lieu of no office address.


mOO

 

[embufum]

regarding the PO Boxes.. maybe two people have a business together? two people one PO Box...hmmm.

or a shared hobby or something? an alias? maybe they split the cost of the box and receive private mail or checks there, a place to receive anonymous mail? inquiries in lieu of no office address.


mOO

Good questions. It's possible that they both have an interest in the same business. I'm still lookin into it. Not to sound pessimistic but I'm sure it won't amount to anything either way.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Good questions. It's possible that they both have an interest in the same business. I'm still lookin into it. Not to sound pessimistic but I'm sure it won't amount to anything either way.

It is still good to check it out. A lot of my stuff ends up being dead ends.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A rather muddled podcast about the case: CONSPIRACY: Ray Gricar - Crime Junkie Podcast

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is a nice summary of the case: Darkmatter: District Attorney Ray Gricar Went Missing And So Did His Brother Years Before.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is another video that is a good summary:

 

[Kittybunny]

Thanks J.J.

I was just thinking about Ray last weekend, as my mom and I took a road trip from Pittsburgh up to about an hour past State College. Many familiar town names, locations, etc... It makes me sad that we may never know what happened. Sometimes I like to think walk away, because it is the most positive of outcomes, and means for his own reasons Ray is living somewhere on his own terms, hopefully happy. For all the speculation here, I believe that at his core, Ray was a very good diligent public servant, a good father, and a good person. Not perfect, of course, because who is?

It is a tragedy if one of the other two alternatives are true - that Ray was killed, his life ended right before retirement for unknown reasons. Or if Ray was in such a dark place of depression that the prospect of retirement or whatever else was too much to bear, and he took his own life in such a way that he didn't want anyone to know about it.

I remain undecided as to which I think is most likely, and it changes all the time. Perhaps someday we will know.

 

[Tiana]

Been thinking about Ray, too. Was watching a crime show many months ago in which Gricar investigated a young girl's death. She was the girlfriend of a trucker
and both were working hard to save for their upcoming marriage. I can't remember a lot of the details, but the girl ends up getting killed (murdered) in Centre Co. Not long after that the boyfriend (trucker) ends up getting killed by thugs in a drug gang. My question is: has this particular case ever been looked at closely to see if there is any connection between it and Ray's disappearance?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I do not remember that case. There was "Spring Dawn" case, the murder of Dawn Birnbaum by a trucker in 1993. Here is a link to the case: James Robert Cruz | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Is this the case?

 

[Tiana]

I do not remember that case. There was "Spring Dawn" case, the murder of Dawn Birnbaum by a trucker in 1993. Here is a link to the case: James Robert Cruz | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Is this the case?

Yes; you are correct, JJ. This was made into an episode of "The FBI Files"--season 2, episode 5 "A Stranger in Town." I rewatched it this morning and I see that I remembered a few of the details incorrectly. The fiance trucker was actually killed by a drug gang before the young lady was murdered, and, by all apparent accounts, these 2 murders were never connected to each other at all. However, I would like to approach this from an entirely different angle and take a fresh look at it. What are the odds that a DA from small town America would wind up missing 10 years after the sensational murder trial of J. R. Cruz in which he successfully convinced the jury to convict Cruz of murder? What is the possibility that Cruz (being a long haul trucker) was running drugs for a cartel? What if the 2 murders and the DA disappearance are all connected? I might be trying to see a pattern where there isn't any, but I'm trying to approach this from a different angle.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes; you are correct, JJ. This was made into an episode of "The FBI Files"--season 2, episode 5 "A Stranger in Town." I rewatched it this morning and I see that I remembered a few of the details incorrectly. The fiance trucker was actually killed by a drug gang before the young lady was murdered, and, by all apparent accounts, these 2 murders were never connected to each other at all. However, I would like to approach this from an entirely different angle and take a fresh look at it. What are the odds that a DA from small town America would wind up missing 10 years after the sensational murder trial of J. R. Cruz in which he successfully convinced the jury to convict Cruz of murder? What is the possibility that Cruz (being a long haul trucker) was running drugs for a cartel? What if the 2 murders and the DA disappearance are all connected? I might be trying to see a pattern where there isn't any, but I'm trying to approach this from a different angle.

Cruz was not killed nor was he engaged to Birnbaum. Gricar's disappearance actually played into Cruz not getting a new trial. https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2015/03/da_ray_gricars_disappearance_p.html

Further, the conviction was 12 years prior to RFG's disappearance. His appeal was 8 years prior to the disappearance.

 

[Tiana]

Cruz was not killed nor was he engaged to Birnbaum. Gricar's disappearance actually played into Cruz not getting a new trial. https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2015/03/da_ray_gricars_disappearance_p.html

Further, the conviction was 12 years prior to RFG's disappearance. His appeal was 8 years prior to the disappearance.

Just a clarification: Dawn's boyfriend happened to be another long haul trucker who was killed by a drug gang. Dawn wasn't aware of it at the time and that's when she went looking for him because she hadn't heard from him. Police surmise that when she took off from the school she was attending to try and find him, that's when she hitched a ride with Cruz.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have heard nothing about her boyfriend, except that been with a trucker. I doubt that there is any relation.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I hope that you are all well, and will remain so.

 

[minazoe]

J.J. do you know the backstory on Ray's brother? did he disappear? did he leave a note? did he make arrangements in weeks prior? or did he just wander off with no preparation or
explanation? wasn't he having some mental illness or depression?

I know you know..I just don't remember as I wasn't so focused on this suicide years before.
I always felt Ray would not repeat this cruelty...but in fact he could have seen his brother as strong, or have rationalized what he did and doesn't see suicide in the same way we might.

we can't just assume that Ray perceived his brothers suicide as "cruel" Maybe Ray would never blame his brother for inflicting pain on others, even though he did.

maybe he rationalized it as a noble solution and saw his brother as brave.

I still have problems with the suicide theory.

I was speaking about this with someone in my family ( I may have mentioned this) but she works in a major psych facility at a very prominent hospital.

she says suicide ( maybe not always in fatal illness) is always 100% driven by anger. 100%.

thoughts?

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Roy Gricar had a long history of bipolar disorder, and had retired on disability (I'm assuming for that).

He left to pickup his youngest son (I think from soccer practice) and the son phoned home some time later to ask where his father was. That is how the family knew that something was wrong.

Roy was "missing" to the extent that nobody knew where he was, but he had committed suicide that day. His body was discovered some day later in the Miami River; I believe his car was located before that. There was no known planning or a note (most suicide victims do not leave notes).

According to McKnight, RFG always question if this was suicide, though the rest of the family does not. RFG had a somewhat negative view of the psychiatric profession; that was seen in professional life. Despite having a long and documented history of bipolar disorder, RFG could not believe that Roy committed suicide.

We do know that both depression and a suicidal tenancies in depressed persons can be genetic; the latter was suspected but not determined in 2005.

I hope I have answered your question.

 

[Ozoner]

Roy Gricar had a long history of bipolar disorder, and had retired on disability (I'm assuming for that).

He left to pickup his youngest son (I think from soccer practice) and the son phoned home some time later to ask where his father was. That is how the family knew that something was wrong.

Roy was "missing" to the extent that nobody knew where he was, but he had committed suicide that day. His body was discovered some day later in the Miami River; I believe his car was located before that. There was no known planning or a note (most suicide victims do not leave notes).

According to McKnight, RFG always question if this was suicide, though the rest of the family does not. RFG had a somewhat negative view of the psychiatric profession; that was seen in professional life. Despite having a long and documented history of bipolar disorder, RFG could not believe that Roy committed suicide.

We do know that both depression and a suicidal tenancies in depressed persons can be genetic; the latter was suspected but not determined in 2005.

I hope I have answered your question.

The more I ponder this case, the more I consider suicide the most likely solution. Even if it was suicide by drowning, maybe Ray wasn't found because he didn't go under by the bridge. Maybe he swam as far downstream as he could until he collapsed and then let the river claim him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The more I ponder this case, the more I consider suicide the most likely solution. Even if it was suicide by drowning, maybe Ray wasn't found because he didn't go under by the bridge. Maybe he swam as far downstream as he could until he collapsed and then let the river claim him.

They searched the river down to Harrisburg. I do not have one account of body missing it that branch of the Susquehanna.

The water was quite cold so if he tried swimming, even walking into the water, hypothermia would have set in very quickly. RFG was not a strong swimmer.

 

[Ozoner]

They searched the river down to Harrisburg. I do not have one account of body missing it that branch of the Susquehanna.

The water was quite cold so if he tried swimming, even walking into the water, hypothermia would have set in very quickly. RFG was not a strong swimmer.

But how many early spring drownings do you have in that branch of the Suswuehanna?