PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[pittsburghgirl]

You must live in Fox Chapel.

Wouldn't live there if you paid me. I just helped a young woman in her twenties look for a decent apartment in suburban Pittsburgh. A shabby1-bedroom goes well over $700. A nice 1-bedroom? 800-900 in a decent complex. Now, he could surely do better in very small towns or rural areas but it would be harder to hide, as people notice strangers in rural areas. I suppose he could have gone out of the country; there are lots of ex-pats in places like Costa Rica. But for the life of me I can't see why he wouldn't just wait, take the pension $$$ and the Social Security and the Medicare and then move wherever he wanted to go--and never look back, if he was done with the people in his life. There was no reason to disappear.

 

[Kiln Wood]

Wouldn't live there if you paid me. I just helped a young woman in her twenties look for a decent apartment in suburban Pittsburgh. A shabby1-bedroom goes well over $700. A nice 1-bedroom? 800-900 in a decent complex. Now, he could surely do better in very small towns or rural areas but it would be harder to hide, as people notice strangers in rural areas. I suppose he could have gone out of the country; there are lots of ex-pats in places like Costa Rica. But for the life of me I can't see why he wouldn't just wait, take the pension $$$ and the Social Security and the Medicare and then move wherever he wanted to go--and never look back, if he was done with the people in his life. There was no reason to disappear.

BBM

.....that anyone knows of.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wouldn't live there if you paid me. I just helped a young woman in her twenties look for a decent apartment in suburban Pittsburgh. A shabby1-bedroom goes well over $700. A nice 1-bedroom? 800-900 in a decent complex. Now, he could surely do better in very small towns or rural areas but it would be harder to hide, as people notice strangers in rural areas. I suppose he could have gone out of the country; there are lots of ex-pats in places like Costa Rica. But for the life of me I can't see why he wouldn't just wait, take the pension $$$ and the Social Security and the Medicare and then move wherever he wanted to go--and never look back, if he was done with the people in his life. There was no reason to disappear.

As for rent, it is less expensive in Phila.

There might be reasons, possibly more than one:

A. He had a good career, but wanted to end it; he was planning to end elective things and law practice. He didn't want to spend the rest of his like as the former DA.

B. He knew his daughter would get a lager inheritance if he disappered prior to retiring.

C. He knew that someone he sent to jail could target him or his family.

D. He had money in a foreign bank and knew he couldn't move it back into the country.

E. He wanted to travel, but not with PEF.

F. He wanted prove he could do it.

G. He wanted people to to still be talking about the case 6 1/2 years later.

H. He found the idea romantic.

Some all or none of these things could be the motivation for leaving.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If RG didn't want to live as the "former DA," all he had to do was relocate--with pension, SS, and medicare intact.

If he didn't want to travel with PF, he could break up with her; someone who has been through divorce and the attendant consequences (alimony, etc.) would not likely have issues with breaking off a relationship. In this case, past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. Presumably one reason he didn't remarry might have been to avoid legal entanglements after having several marriages that did not last.

Lots of people have money in foreign banks; it's only problematic if someone uses those banks to evade US taxes. There are no indications that RG had tax issues, and for a guy who was not a financial sophisticate, stuffing $$$ in a secret foreign account seems pretty sophisticated.

All LE officials, including prosecutors, know that they could be the target of reprisals, revenge, etc. So RG and many others live with that possibility every day. In this country, however, it is extremely rare to hear of criminals actually carrying out threats against families. Even in PA's largest cities, DAs don't disappear because they try killers and gang members. That doesn't mean such a thing couldn't or didn't happen, just that this isn't Mexico or Colombia yet. First of all, RG
wasn't married and as JJ reminds us, didn't live with his daughter, so she was not likely a target and he could put PF out of harm's way by moving or breaking up with her. As an officer of the court, he should have felt obligated to report a threat, which could presumably put anyone in his position after him at risk as well. But we see nothing of the sort subsequent to the disappearance.

I've said enough about my view of the "throw away your whole life so your adult daughter can get more inheritance and you don't have to die for that to happen" theory.

As for the final 3, all of those could be true if RG was the kind of man to run out on others in order to pull off some slick joke on us all. I do have questions about this man of the law living under a
false name, likely using fake papers, etc. but if he would walk away from his daughter, then presumably he didn't have other moral scruples either.

What is the more likely explanation? Was RG the kind of man to run from a threat (one that we in the public have never heard about)? Would he have a problem breaking off a relationship? Did he think money was more important to his daughter than his time or attention? Or did he go to meet someone who killed him? Who benefited from his disappearance--perhaps someone being tried, or about to be tried?

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Since Mr. Gricar had sent many "dangerous" people to prison, could both his brother's suicide, and his disappearance be connected? I know it sounds farfetched, but you never know?

 

[ThePhantom]

Mr. Gricar would not be the first man to be unhappy with his life, and then decide to make a change when his friends and colleagues are least expecting it. It may not make sense to us, but it makes sense to the person who does it. They don't want to deal with any complications -- emotional or otherwise. People have been known to change their identities -- get new ss#'s, etc. It can be done. What would his motive be? That he's done with his career, relationship, life as he had been living it, and willing to walk away to something different -- new area, new people. It does happen, it just doesn't make the headlines like this case. Just wondering -- did his daugther need money for anything? Maybe Mr. Gricar felt she needed the money from the life insurance policy for something? Doubt it. Also, can we really be 100% sure his daughter has never heard from him? Who searches in advance about how to erase one's hard drive -- someone who has stuff on it they don't want anyone to see -- maybe stuff like contacts, account transactions -- how do you know those kinds of things weren't on that computer? Why drive so far out - just to dump it in the river? He may have met his ride there, dumped the drive and split. Done. A decision like this isn't impulsive -- it's something that's thought about for a long time --- planned in detail --- and then executed in a way that will draw the least amount of attention, at least initially. Mr. Gricar is a lawyer, he knows how to tie up loose ends and cover his tracks.

????

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If RG didn't want to live as the "former DA," all he had to do was relocate--with pension, SS, and medicare intact.

He'd still be the ex-DA.

Initially, when he moved to State College, he'd planned to become a stay at home dad.

If he didn't want to travel with PF, he could break up with her; someone who has been through divorce and the attendant consequences (alimony, etc.) would not likely have issues with breaking off a relationship. In this case, past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. Presumably one reason he didn't remarry might have been to avoid legal entanglements after having several marriages that did not last.

Since he did remarry after his first divorce, I don't see the legal entanglement argument.

Lots of people have money in foreign banks; it's only problematic if someone uses those banks to evade US taxes. There are no indications that RG had tax issues, and for a guy who was not a financial sophisticate, stuffing $$$ in a secret foreign account seems pretty sophisticated.

You are assuming a fact not in evidence and possibly not a fact.

All LE officials, including prosecutors, know that they could be the target of reprisals, revenge, etc. So RG and many others live with that possibility every day. In this country, however, it is extremely rare to hear of criminals actually carrying out threats against families. Even in PA's largest cities, DAs don't disappear because they try killers and gang members. That doesn't mean such a thing couldn't or didn't happen, just that this isn't Mexico or Colombia yet.

Again, we don't know exactly what is going through his mind. It might not have been anyone he prosecuted; it could have been the defendant's sister, brother, child, parent or SO.

First of all, RG
wasn't married and as JJ reminds us, didn't live with his daughter, so she was not likely a target and he could put PF out of harm's way by moving or breaking up with her. As an officer of the court, he should have felt obligated to report a threat, which could presumably put anyone in his position after him at risk as well. But we see nothing of the sort subsequent to the disappearance.

RFG would never be out of that range, oh, unless he disappeared without a trace.

I've said enough about my view of the "throw away your whole life so your adult daughter can get more inheritance and you don't have to die for that to happen" theory.

Well, that is your opinion, but that might not be RFG's opinion.

As for the final 3, all of those could be true if RG was the kind of man to run out on others in order to pull off some slick joke on us all. I do have questions about this man of the law living under a
false name, likely using fake papers, etc. but if he would walk away from his daughter, then presumably he didn't have other moral scruples either.

It is not a joke, sick or otherwise. It is at best a challenge and at worst, ego.

What is the more likely explanation? Was RG the kind of man to run from a threat (one that we in the public have never heard about)? Would he have a problem breaking off a relationship? Did he think money was more important to his daughter than his time or attention? Or did he go to meet someone who killed him? Who benefited from his disappearance--perhaps someone being tried, or about to be tried?

Well, looking at his past, there were money issues, regarding his full time status.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Since Mr. Gricar had sent many "dangerous" people to prison, could both his brother's suicide, and his disappearance be connected? I know it sounds farfetched, but you never know?

His brother, Roy, had a long term diagnosed problem with depression. His body was recovered and there was no evidence of foul play, from what Tony Gricar indicated (and he reviewed the coroner's report).

While I think suicide is highly unlikely in RFG's case, the possibility that RFG was also suffering from depression is possibly the greatest argument for suicide. While suicide itself is not genetic, depression can be.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Since Mr. Gricar had sent many "dangerous" people to prison, could both his brother's suicide, and his disappearance be connected? I know it sounds farfetched, but you never know?

Here is what Tony recently had to say regarding his Dad's death.

Tony Gricar is uncertain what to think when he looks back on his dad's death.

"He was not a swimmer," Tony said of his father. "He was not a fan of water. So, if there has ever been anything questionable about my dad's suicide, that is it. It's sort of like if you're afraid of fire, you're not going to set yourself on fire. So that is the one question that's always been in the back of my mind. Other than that, it's cut and dry."
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

Also Tony once told us his dad was on his way to pick up the youngest child from a school function. That's definately weird timing to jump. So your thoughts are thoughts I too have had.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Mr. Gricar would not be the first man to be unhappy with his life, and then decide to make a change when his friends and colleagues are least expecting it. It may not make sense to us, but it makes sense to the person who does it. They don't want to deal with any complications -- emotional or otherwise. People have been known to change their identities -- get new ss#'s, etc. It can be done. What would his motive be? That he's done with his career, relationship, life as he had been living it, and willing to walk away to something different -- new area, new people. It does happen, it just doesn't make the headlines like this case. Just wondering -- did his daugther need money for anything? Maybe Mr. Gricar felt she needed the money from the life insurance policy for something? Doubt it. Also, can we really be 100% sure his daughter has never heard from him? Who searches in advance about how to erase one's hard drive -- someone who has stuff on it they don't want anyone to see -- maybe stuff like contacts, account transactions -- how do you know those kinds of things weren't on that computer? Why drive so far out - just to dump it in the river? He may have met his ride there, dumped the drive and split. Done. A decision like this isn't impulsive -- it's something that's thought about for a long time --- planned in detail --- and then executed in a way that will draw the least amount of attention, at least initially. Mr. Gricar is a lawyer, he knows how to tie up loose ends and cover his tracks.

????

Ray Gricar was 59 years old in April 2005. He had served as the district attorney of Centre County for nearly 20 years and was preparing to retire at the end of the year. Gricar's career was a success, he was involved in a happy relationship with a woman who worked in his office and he was close to his 27-year-old daughter, Lara. Gricar, by all accounts, had lived a pleasant life and was looking forward to an ideal retirement.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

There is more in that article above. Your post sounds like someone's fantasy but forgive me it does not sound like Ray's.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray Gricar was 59 years old in April 2005. He had served as the district attorney of Centre County for nearly 20 years and was preparing to retire at the end of the year. Gricar's career was a success, he was involved in a happy relationship with a woman who worked in his office and he was close to his 27-year-old daughter, Lara. Gricar, by all accounts, had lived a pleasant life and was looking forward to an ideal retirement.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

There is more in that article above. Your post sounds like someone's fantasy but forgive me it does not sound like Ray's.

His "successful career" was going to over soon.

We can't tell how happy he was in his relationship. I would note that PEF seems to be a permanent resident in Bellefonte. She still lived in the house she grew up in. It would be unlikely she'd leave.

His daughter was 2000+ miles away and he wasn't in her household for more than a decade.

He might have been looking forward for ending his job. If he left voluntarily, that is exactly what he did.

 

[cloudbuster05]

His "successful career" was going to over soon.

We can't tell how happy he was in his relationship. I would note that PEF seems to be a permanent resident in Bellefonte. She still lived in the house she grew up in. It would be unlikely she'd leave.

His daughter was 2000+ miles away and he wasn't in her household for more than a decade.

He might have been looking forward for ending his job. If he left voluntarily, that is exactly what he did.

His successful career was just that so why ruin his own reputation and everything he built???

Im sure Patty knew if he was unhappy. Woman know these things.

Household has nothing to do with Lara, she is his only child that was CLOSE to him.

Your last sentence is only your own opinion as orchestrated over and over again, at which you are entitled to. You obviously misinterpreted the words in the article to meet your opinion. Im interested in what the people who knew him had to say in the article.

I have another article filled with yet a person who described himself a close friend Bob B and its filled with his opinions, well written. Maybe tommorrow I will post the link.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

His successful career was just that so why ruin his own reputation and everything he built???

Reputation is only important if he planned to continue practicing law or run for office.

Im sure Patty knew if he was unhappy. Woman know these things.

If women, or men, did, the divorce rate wouldn't be above 50%. I doubt that PEF was a mind reader.

Household has nothing to do with Lara, she is his only child that was CLOSE to him.

Oh, please. A 2 minute phone call twice a week, from 2000 miles away is not "close." Not being in her household for more that a decade is not "close." It doesn't that they didn't love each other, but it wasn't "close."

Your last sentence is only your own opinion as orchestrated over and over again, at which you are entitled to.

No, as noted, it is a simple statement of fact.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Reputation is only important if he planned to continue practicing law or run for office.



If women, or men, did, the divorce rate wouldn't be above 50%. I doubt that PEF was a mind reader.



Oh, please. A 2 minute phone call twice a week, from 2000 miles away is not "close." Not being in her household for more that a decade is not "close." It doesn't that they didn't love each other, but it wasn't "close."



No, as noted, it is a simple statement of fact.

Here are some facts:
Gricar's daughter, Lara, said she last spoke with her dad the day before he disappeared.

"I just called to say 'I love you, Dad,' " Lara Gricar recalled. "He said, 'Sweetie, I love you, too.' "

She described their relationship as close and said they normally spoke with each other by telephone about three times each week. Though she lives in Seattle, Lara Gricar, 27, said they spent about four weeks together each year, with her dad visiting her twice, and her making the trip back to Pennsylvania twice.

Barbara Gray, Gricar's ex-wife, called her former husband "a person of incredibly high integrity who was a devoted father."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05120/496950-85.stm#ixzz1cQR1RU4A

JJ you don't seem to like the facts but its a good debate!!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here are some facts:
Gricar's daughter, Lara, said she last spoke with her dad the day before he disappeared.

"I just called to say 'I love you, Dad,' " Lara Gricar recalled. "He said, 'Sweetie, I love you, too.' "

She described their relationship as close and said they normally spoke with each other by telephone about three times each week. Though she lives in Seattle, Lara Gricar, 27, said they spent about four weeks together each year, with her dad visiting her twice, and her making the trip back to Pennsylvania twice.

Barbara Gray, Gricar's ex-wife, called her former husband "a person of incredibly high integrity who was a devoted father."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05120/496950-85.stm#ixzz1cQR1RU4A

JJ you don't seem to like the facts but its a good debate!!!

Calling up and saying "I love you," is checking in, not involvement in RFG's day to day life. Being apart for 48 weeks a year is not involvement in RFG's day to day life.

Being of "high integrity" or "devoted" is not involvement in LG's day to day life. Here we are talking about an adult child, 2000 miles away, that is talking to her father about a half hour a week, if that.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Calling up and saying "I love you," is checking in, not involvement in RFG's day to day life. Being apart for 48 weeks a year is not involvement in RFG's day to day life.

Being of "high integrity" or "devoted" is not involvement in LG's day to day life. Here we are talking about an adult child, 2000 miles away, that is talking to her father about a half hour a week, if that.

Actually what your talking about is discreeting Lara's relationship with her dad. That's not a fact with what we have read. The point being they was close and he was described as a devoted father. Somehow you missed those parts. I know you want this to be a walk away and I get that but changing the facts to fit that agenda, and ruining the mans legacy is something else. You have turned Ray and everything he was described as into the opposite of who he was. I think it's wise to keep all the theories open. If you want suicide off the table because of lack of body, I can buy that. The other two theories must remain until the case is resolved.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually what your talking about is discreeting Lara's relationship with her dad. That's not a fact with what we have read. The point being they was close and he was described as a devoted father. Somehow you missed those parts. I know you want this to be a walk away and I get that but changing the facts to fit that agenda, and ruining the mans legacy is something else. You have turned Ray and everything he was described as into the opposite of who he was. I think it's wise to keep all the theories open. If you want suicide off the table because of lack of body, I can buy that. The other two theories must remain until the case is resolved.

No, CB, I know the cities both people lived in and the amount of time that they were living in those cities. We also know, from LG, the length of the "normal" phone calls.

That does not mean that they didn't love each other, or care about each other. It does mean that, for years, they were not involved in each others daily lives.

 

[cloudbuster05]

No, CB, I know the cities both people lived in and the amount of time that they were living in those cities. We also know, from LG, the length of the "normal" phone calls.

That does not mean that they didn't love each other, or care about each other. It does mean that, for years, they were not involved in each others daily lives.

Your basing it on one call that we know of. There is no way you could know how long they talked three times a week. On that one call the reason she kept it short is because she was on her way to class. That would be a short call. A normal call is not one going to her class. The only way anyone could know the length of the normal calls is if they had a wire tap to monitor them. So JJ you would have to ask Lara how long their conversations was to be factual. Just curious when you say "we also know" who is the we?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Your basing it on one call that we know of. There is no way you could know how long they talked three times a week. On that one call the reason she kept it short is because she was on her way to class. That would be a short call. A normal call is not one going to her class. The only way anyone could know the length of the normal calls is if they had a wire tap to monitor them. So JJ you would have to ask Lara how long their conversations was to be factual. Just curious when you say "we also know" who is the we?

LG said it was a normal call, just the kind she made normally.

Now, why would call that "bashing?" And why would you think that an adult daughter, 2000+ miles away, who has been living out of state for at least 7 years, would be so emotionally needy she'd have to call her father and keep him apprised of her daily activities? Or vice versa? Especially since they hadn't been in the same household for twice that time?

 

[cloudbuster05]

LG said it was a normal call, just the kind she made normally.

Now, why would call that "bashing?" And why would you think that an adult daughter, 2000+ miles away, who has been living out of state for at least 7 years, would be so emotionally needy she'd have to call her father and keep him apprised of her daily activities? Or vice versa? Especially since they hadn't been in the same household for twice that time?

I never called Lara emotionally needy, you just did. "Just the kind she made normally" do you have a link and does it also support how long they talked? Im just trying to keep to the facts and leave out things you have added in that are not a fact. So lets try during this debate to keep things factual. People are reading this and basing opinions on things presented that are opinions of yours, that are not factual. Could you show me where Lara said" just the kind she made normally." Words are tricky and can be taken out of context, to mean what someone wants it to mean.