PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ:

Your analysis of the "helper" is excellent. I would ask this: If Ray Gricar was in private practice prior to being elected DA, he may have long-term client relationships as well.

He was never in private practice, from law school. It was actually an issue with him being a part time DA for his first 3 terms.

I think this is more likely than the Amos Goodall theory.

It is not a theory; it is just a list of people who should be checked. The two knew each other since at least 1981. Goodall was RFG's first opponent.

Oh, as a point of disclosure: I know Robert Buehner, Montour County DA as I grew up in Danville until I left for college in 1984.

I stayed at the Doctor's Inn, which I would highly recommend, the last time I was there. Mr. Buehner and I disagree on points, but I really like him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Makes a perfect scenario for having Ray eliminated.

Ray may have known he was in danger and left to protect his family.

who was the woman Ray was with before he disappeared?

he may have gone into witness protection, he may have been under great threat.

this will blow up huge....and I believe that he met someone who put him into hiding or killed him in a second car in another spot.

For all we know, Ray's body is in the trunk of an abandoned car somewhere.

it never showed up in the water so I believe he was hidden away so as not to determine cause of death....hence his murder occurred elsewhere, he may have been set up and was taken when he returned to his car at gunpoint.

all they would have to do is park next to the mini...come over to the passenger side..with the ciggarette...point a gun and ask Ray to get in the car.

they probably immediately dispatched the laptop...

I say murder.

Far from perfect. There are five witnesses out there and Mr. Sandusky was indicted. Further, RFG could have filed charges against him at any point over those seven years after the incident.

 

[minazoe]

yes, but I think Gricar may have been having doubts, maybe he was expressing those doubts...maybe he leaked something or refused a bribe.

 

[justathought]

does Sandusky smoke? or did he?

 

[minazoe]

would sandusky do his own dirty work? naw....maybe....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

yes, but I think Gricar may have been having doubts, maybe he was expressing those doubts...maybe he leaked something or refused a bribe.

Nothing was leaked and why would he bribed in 2005 about something he wouldn't prosecute in 1998?

 

[minazoe]

that's a question for those involved. A prosecutor can reopen a case the mniute he gets some new information ...and he can snoop around a case as long as he wishes to.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

does Sandusky smoke? or did he?

He doesn't drink, and, as an athlete, I doubt if he'd smoke.

Why kill the guy who's not prosecuting you?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

that's a question for those involved. A prosecutor can reopen a case the mniute he gets some new information ...and he can snoop around a case as long as he wishes to.

RFG was not an investigative DA. And why didn't he prosecute the strong case in 1998?

 

[minazoe]

I don't know what the nexus is, maybe there are a lot more people involved...maybe someone came in Ray's office to tell him things...maybe someone was blackmailing Sandusky, maybe someone was providing additional info that could help Ray make his case.

I bet this goes back years and years...maybe Ray was the only one who knew the additional info.

I don't know, but it's a very bad story and I have to wonder if any money got passed around.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't know what the nexus is, maybe there are a lot more people involved...maybe someone came in Ray's office to tell him things...maybe someone was blackmailing Sandusky, maybe someone was providing additional info that could help Ray make his case.

I bet this goes back years and years...maybe Ray was the only one who knew the additional info.

I don't know, but it's a very bad story and I have to wonder if any money got passed around.

The grand jury had exactly the same information RFG had, regarding Victim 6. RFG had access to another victim, B.K., that the grand jury did not have access to.

The grand jury indicted; RFG did not seek charges.

 

[minazoe]

hmmmmm well, you still can't help but wonder....wth?

it will be interesting to see if there is any connection...Maybe he didn't prosecute out of fear...or complicity?

yikes...

I hope Ray is alive.

 

[eriklatranyi]

RFG was not an investigative DA. And why didn't he prosecute the strong case in 1998?

If he did some investigation, this is what would have happened:

Exclusive: Victims Double In Penn State Case(nearly 20)

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive%3A-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811

 

[asp17061]

It's very tough for me NOT to see a connection. I know that this is what the brain does--it looks for connections where they don't always exist. But I can't shake it.

I really think there's a connection between this unfolding catastrophe in State College and Ray Gricar's disappearance, and I think he's no longer among the living because of it. It's a gut feeling and only speculation.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Note that ABC has been talking about a Gricar link: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sandusky-investigator-center-mystery/story?id=14905668

I've heard that a major newspaper will be as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/s...usky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

I think the New York Times qualifies.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Great thread. I followed this case way back when, then kind of gave up on reading the thread. Earlier today I read the Grand Jury presentation in the Sandusky case and almost fell over when I saw Ray Gricar's name!

In any case, what I have to add is this:
People who are meticulous about their car and who don't EVER allow anyone to smoke in their car would not "allow" someone to smoke in their car unless they were somehow being forced to do so.

Based just on this small piece of information, it has been my opinion since the beginning that Gricar was coerced, probably at gunpoint, right there in his car in that parking lot. I think he was taken at gunpoint into another car. It is also my opinion that he was murdered and his body will never be found.

The big question to me was - why? This information could possibly be connected to the "why". I find it to be highly suspicious that Gricar did not move forward with prosecution of Sandusky back then.

Just as there have been people who have walked away from their lives with no prior warning, there have been far more people who turned out to be dishonest, on the take, etc. even after having led a so-called "exemplary" life.

How do we know there weren't other cases that Gricar "refused to prosecute" over the span of his career? We don't. But now we know about this one.

I sure hope there is further investigation into this, including close questioning of others who were involved in the Sandusky 1998 incident.

Regarding the above linked NYTimes article: The assistant DA who worked under Gricar for 5 years states that he (Gricar) "examined the evidence by himself" or words to that effect. I am unsure based on the wording of the article whether this means the assistant DA knew of the investigation at the time but that Gricar did not share any of the evidence with him or if it means that Gricar always examined evidence by himself and never shared it with the assistant in any case? I also would like to know if this unwillingness to share the evidence collected in the Sandusky investigation was unusual?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As for the smoking, the person identified as RFG in Wilkes Barre by two witnesses on 4/18/05, was also smoking.

 

[Usher737]

I can't help but think this case is directly tied to Ray's disappearance. I would love to know how many and which Penn State staff members contributed to his re-election campaigns after 1998! I believe Ray had to be silenced for something he was about to do concerning this case. Maybe it will come out that a victim approached him (recently) about Sandusky prior to his disapperance in 2005.

 

[minazoe]

hey JJ what's your angle?

 

[Kateyes]

JJ in Phila I was about to post the New York Times article, but you beat me to it. Usher, your post states my thoughts, exactly. When I rea that grand jury report and saw Ray Gricar's name I had that aha! moment as to a possible link yo Gricar's disappearance. Sure, the in estigatots looked at cases he prosecuted thinking someone came back for revenge. But very few LE investigators would think to look at cases he investigated but did NOT prosecute. And, Usher, I agree and previously said that maybe Gricar had been hushed, but had additional info come to him that made it clear he would have no choice but to prosecute. In theory only, of course, perhaps Gricar conveyed that he would have to move forward to press charges. He then was lured to a meeting, maybe under false pretenses, and the professional hit was done. I know to some it sounds far-fetched, but it just seems too strange that Gricar had investigated this case, and then, some years later, he goes missing. JMO