PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[J. J. in Phila]

I really hate to wonder this ...but I do wonder if the FBI has been able to look at Rays finances, going way back to 1998.

I also am super curious as to intimations around Ray's personal life, women etc....

does anyone know his personal history, I have heard several comments but I don't know the details...anyone know?

did Ray have a reputation? curious.

Two women that he dated between marriages were mentioned in the press.

 

[minazoe]

I find it interesting that he bought the mini cooper for cash and put it in Patty's name.
yes, it was a gift...but he was driving it everywhere...it was the car...right?

what I mean is this...if you buy something and pay cash...it's for your husband..does the title matter? it's just odd to me...I guess he bought it for her...but it makes me wonder.

was he trying to hide the money he put into that vehicle? was he just incredibly frugal, saving and paying cash for all big ticky items?

Sandusky was one year away from becoming assistant coach in 1998.

 

[MonkeyMae]

Hi, I just joined this site for my interest in another case and this morning just happened on this thread. I have NOT read all of it (yet), just a few random posts here and there. This case interests me very much as I lived in Lewisburg and catered at Bucknell University. I currently live a few miles upriver from Lewisburg. I remember Ray's disappearance like it was yesterday because of where his car was located at the Street Of Shops. I frequent there quite often and have since it opened. My tenants daughter was the manager of the Street of Shops and the owner was known by about everyone who lived in Lewisburg. Several of my neighbors also have shops in the building.

Although it's possible that Ray met someone in Lewisburg, please do not come to that conclusion because of the "sighting" of him being in the Street of Shops talking to some mystery woman. When Ray's car was first discovered across the street from the SOS a spokesman (the manager, my tenants daughter) was interviewed and stated that no one in the complex saw anything and had no idea the car was parked there until it was found. The Owner of the SOS (Mr. C.B.) also stated nobody saw or knew anything. As the story hit the news Mr. C.B. went on various news shows and did many interviews and his story "evolved" into seeing him inside the SOS. Mr. C.B. is a well know businessman and real estate "mogal" in this small town, I guess every college town probably has some. I don't want to call him smarmy but most def "slick". It was always my opinion, and many other locals, that Ray was never seen, just like the earliest reports stated but instead took advantage of the opportunity to "advertise" for his business as it's always been about making money with this man. Taking advantage of situations is not beneath his work ethics.

So, while it's quite plausible that Ray did indeed meet with someone in Lewisburg I cannot come to that conclusion based on "witness" reports of him being seen with a mystery woman in the Street of Shops. Now, I most def am going back to read this entire thread and I pray that someday this will be solved.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I find it interesting that he bought the mini cooper for cash and put it in Patty's name.
yes, it was a gift...but he was driving it everywhere...it was the car...right?

Right. RFG paid for the car, and bought it outright; there was no financing. He drove it almost exclusively. It was registered to PEF. She had her own car that she drove. He had bought it by July 2004, according to the nephew.

what I mean is this...if you buy something and pay cash...it's for your husband..does the title matter? it's just odd to me...I guess he bought it for her...but it makes me wonder.

The told PEF it was in case he was sued. However:

1. A sitting DA has a great deal of immunity.

2. He covered under the county's liability policy.

One thing I've been looking at was estate planning. If something happened to him, i.e. he dropped dead of a heart attack, PEF would get the asset and not have to pay inheritance taxes. Similarly, having his daughter on the bank accounts would cut her inheritance taxes in half.

Sandusky was one year away from becoming assistant coach in 1998.

RFG went from part time status to full time status as DA in 1997, so his income from his salary would have doubled.

 

[minazoe]

But even if his salary doubled....from what to what? 50k to 100K? less?

interesting...with P as a clerical, is that right? or a clerk? Ray was a big saver I guess...huh..?

I guess you could say there is no evidence of anything...or you could say I would like to know more about Ray's money and if there were any notable influxes of money in his account. and maybe I would even like to know where he withdrew the money for the car and how the money was made available...just cause it's nagging at me now.


if I was the FBI...perhaps.

 

[minazoe]

I mean he could have money all over the place..inheritances etc...and he just pays for his car...maybe he has never financed a vehicle...

some people live this way and I commend them...I still would like to know though....

because, I don't know how Sandusky walked in 98.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

But even if his salary doubled....from what to what? 50k to 100K? less?

interesting...with P as a clerical, is that right? or a clerk? Ray was a big saver I guess...huh..?

I guess you could say there is no evidence of anything...or you could say I would like to know more about Ray's money and if there were any notable influxes of money in his account. and maybe I would even like to know where he withdrew the money for the car and how the money was made available...just cause it's nagging at me now.


if I was the FBI...perhaps.

On the other thread, I have a breakdown of some of his salary. In 1997, after being full time, RFG's salary was $105,678. At some point, before the salary changed, 1996 or 1997, it was under $50,000. Keep in mind that was gross income, but not net income.


I'm told that he donated the difference that first year to a woman's shelter, though no one has suggested he did that on an annual basis. RFG had long pressed for going full time, since the late 1980's; the then county commissioners did not approve. It was an issue in the 1993 campaign, with his opponent criticizing his stance. In 1997, IIRC, he was unopposed, both in the primary and general.

It had been traditional in Centre County for the DA to maintain an outside law practice.

In short, prior to 1998, RFG's financial situation had improved, rather dramatically.

One of the things I've suggested looking was his finances back to the year he went full time, 1997 or 1998. That was well before anything related to Sandusky came out.

As for PEF, she was a witness/victim's advocate (WVA) prior to January 2005. She took the clerk position (which was possibly lower paying) after that. Remember, she had planned to retire with RFG at the end of 2005, so career advancement may not have been the first thing on her mind.

 

[minazoe]

so did Ray ever have an outside practice?

here they were going to retire together...everything...he saved the money...he managed his life well...

so where is the big suicide here? what is the catalyst for suicide?


I find it interesting that they think just because his brother killed himself, then obviously Ray followed suit...do they think that Ray was clinically depressed? and if so , why did no one seem to suggest that he may have needed counseling or help. Why would Patty not come out and say Ray was very down and I was concerned, or seeking help for him....or thought of it...

Why retire early if retirement depresses you?

a cursory look at Ray tells me that he is very principled. Pays cash, saves money, prosecutes criminals, uptight about his car, adopts, doesn't get married ( I am sure due to some weird principle he has)...doesn't believe in this that or the other....

I get him...

I get that he wants the laptop clean before he returns it to the state.

but he is principled ...now we are to believe that Ray threw a State owned laptop in the river and cut out on his family... so he could die? He wasn't broke. he wasn't sick...

there was a ciggy ash in that car...

 

[minazoe]

ok more...sorry...

I think it's pretty safe to say that...

Sandusky, due to his connections was probably one of the more potentially high profile cases to come across his desk...the foundation, the politics, the university...possible scandal from the get go.

so then it may be safe to say that

strings were pulled for the sake of Sandusky.

so then it may be safe to say that the file on this case is not missing by accident...

with a great deal to lose

I think it's safe to say

Jerry boy makes a really good suspect for the stalking and killing of Ray Gricar.

and judging by his behaviour leading up to his disappearance, I believe Ray knew he was being pursued..I believe he knew he was in trouble...

that's where I'm going with this...

it's a lot for a man in Jerry's standing to be walking around with the bomb of his record pending explosion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

ok more...sorry...

I think it's pretty safe to say that...

Sandusky, due to his connections was probably one of the more potentially high profile cases to come across his desk...the foundation, the politics, the university...possible scandal from the get go.

so then it may be safe to say that

strings were pulled for the sake of Sandusky.

I don't yet think that is pretty safe to say. One possibility is that RFG made a colossally bad mistake, and didn't check the then new statute.

so then it may be safe to say that the file on this case is not missing by accident...

with a great deal to lose

I'd doubt that RFG would tuck the file under his arm. He'd copy it and the original would still be someplace.

Jerry boy makes a really good suspect for the stalking and killing of Ray Gricar.

It would next to impossible for RFG not to realize he's been followed for 50 miles, or spot a tail in Lewisburg.

and judging by his behaviour leading up to his disappearance, I believe Ray knew he was being pursued..I believe he knew he was in trouble...

that's where I'm going with this...

it's a lot for a man in Jerry's standing to be walking around with the bomb of his record pending explosion.

How would his behavior indicate that?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Welcome

Although it's possible that Ray met someone in Lewisburg, please do not come to that conclusion because of the "sighting" of him being in the Street of Shops talking to some mystery woman. When Ray's car was first discovered across the street from the SOS a spokesman (the manager, my tenants daughter) was interviewed and stated that no one in the complex saw anything and had no idea the car was parked there until it was found. The Owner of the SOS (Mr. C.B.) also stated nobody saw or knew anything. As the story hit the news Mr. C.B. went on various news shows and did many interviews and his story "evolved" into seeing him inside the SOS.

C.B. reported to the police sometime before 10:45 PM on 4/16/05. His story didn't "evolve." He reported seeing RFG around noon on 4/16/05, in the SoS.

Mr. C.B. is a well know businessman and real estate "mogal" in this small town, I guess every college town probably has some. I don't want to call him smarmy but most def "slick". It was always my opinion, and many other locals, that Ray was never seen, just like the earliest reports stated but instead took advantage of the opportunity to "advertise" for his business as it's always been about making money with this man. Taking advantage of situations is not beneath his work ethics.

I'm not sure how many businessmen would want to advertize a murder or suicide.

So, while it's quite plausible that Ray did indeed meet with someone in Lewisburg I cannot come to that conclusion based on "witness" reports of him being seen with a mystery woman in the Street of Shops. Now, I most def am going back to read this entire thread and I pray that someday this will be solved.

C. B. was not the witness that reported the "Lewisburg Mystery Woman (LMW)." A business owner reported seeing RFG with LMW after 5:00 PM on 4/15/05. This was the first witness to report seeing RFG in the area.

I only give the 4/16/05 sightings as being 50% likely; in fact, I only give any post-4/15/05 sighting as 50% likely.

 

[Pensfan]

I bumped into this while reading. This blogger states that some searches WERE done for RG around the area where RG’s car was found and in the river. ??

http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2011/11/penn-state.html
Geoff Knauth said...
I might not be following this complexity blog if Lance had not given a talk last year at Penn State, which motivated me to drive 130 miles R/T to hear him. Net win.

In a small world moment, though, when I read that the district attorney who originally investigated Sandusky in 1998 was Ray Gricar, who disappeared in 2005, I shook my head. As a Civil Air Patrol pilot, I flew missions searching for Gricar up and down the Susquehanna River all the way down to Harrisburg. He was never found, but his laptop was recovered from the river.
10:11 AM, November 16, 2011

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I bumped into this while reading. This blogger states that some searches WERE done for RG around the area where RG’s car was found and in the river. ??

http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2011/11/penn-state.html
Geoff Knauth said...
I might not be following this complexity blog if Lance had not given a talk last year at Penn State, which motivated me to drive 130 miles R/T to hear him. Net win.

In a small world moment, though, when I read that the district attorney who originally investigated Sandusky in 1998 was Ray Gricar, who disappeared in 2005, I shook my head. As a Civil Air Patrol pilot, I flew missions searching for Gricar up and down the Susquehanna River all the way down to Harrisburg. He was never found, but his laptop was recovered from the river.
10:11 AM, November 16, 2011

The Susquehanna was searched at least a half dozen times, by air, boat divers, people on the bank. They used a cadaver dog as well. There was uptick in people renting kayaks over the summer; it is speculated that the reward prompted it.

In answer to an earlier question, RFG was never in private practice and I've never heard of private clients.

 

[Pensfan]

I mean he could have money all over the place..inheritances etc...and he just pays for his car...maybe he has never financed a vehicle...

some people live this way and I commend them...I still would like to know though....

because, I don't know how Sandusky walked in 98.

Sandusky walked because was a professional scammer like all the other fixated pedophiles that eventually have 70+ victims. He created an image that he was a "great guy" who donated all his free time to helping indigent children.

Sandusky admitted that he washed that indigent (smelly) kid in the shower and gave him a hug. When the mom confronted Sandusky, like a "great guy" he didn't argue. He minimized and admitted that he should not have bathed her child. (She should have washed him more frequently.) He stated that he felt remorse, too.

(No, I don't think this child needed a shower, but it is clear how Sandusky spun this to the police and the DA. Because it was Sandusky's first offense, it was this "great guy's" word against the smelly indigent boy's who needed a shower. Since Sandusky had no previous record and there was no evidence of physical abuse (bruises/anal tearing), RG decided he might not win this case and he let Sandusky walk.)

The shower was a the perfect ruse for Sandusky to use with indigent children who may not have been bathed frequently.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sandusky walked because was a professional scammer like all the other fixated pedophiles that eventually have 70+ victims. He created an image that he was a "great guy" who donated all his free time to helping indigent children.

Sandusky admitted that he washed that indigent (smelly) kid in the shower and gave him a hug. When the mom confronted Sandusky, like a "great guy" he didn't argue. He minimized and admitted that he should not have bathed her child. (She should have washed him more frequently.) He stated that he felt remorse, too..

Ah, why give a "smelly" kid a bear hug?

 

[minazoe]

I know I'm being dramatic and there are probably a hundred cases Ray could have gotten whacked over...but not a hundred cases like the Penn State scandal .

plus it doesn't seem like a drug retaliation thing...does it? where is the carnage...the warning...the out in the open in your face kind of thuggery...

this is out in the country...a man and his laptop and a red mini cooper.

not a trace.

Ray was killed out of eyesight and hidden ...so who ever did this planned it well and was not making a statement...

so killing Ray had some intrinsic value...

a robbery would have seen the laptop in a pawn shop...a tryst gone wrong would not see Ray's laptop in the river, a suicide would have given up Ray's body by now I would imagine...

It seems like someone got rid of Ray...set him up and got rid of him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

...a tryst gone wrong would not see Ray's laptop in the river,

Actually, it could have.

 

[minazoe]

how would that go down?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

how would that go down?

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/24/2396798/murder-ii-a-short-walk-to-death.html

It is slightly less likely than when I first posted it.

 

[MonkeyMae]

Welcome



C.B. reported to the police sometime before 10:45 PM on 4/16/05. His story didn't "evolve." He reported seeing RFG around noon on 4/16/05, in the SoS.



I'm not sure how many businessmen would want to advertize a murder or suicide.



C. B. was not the witness that reported the "Lewisburg Mystery Woman (LMW)." A business owner reported seeing RFG with LMW after 5:00 PM on 4/15/05. This was the first witness to report seeing RFG in the area.

I only give the 4/16/05 sightings as being 50% likely; in fact, I only give any post-4/15/05 sighting as 50% likely.

I believe sometime before 10:45 on 4/16/05 he made a public statement that nobody at the SOS saw or knew anything. I didn't mean to insinuate he was advertising a murder or suicide....