PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, seeing the text was one of my first thoughts. However, Gricar going against Corbett is the same as going up against the PSU regime, perhaps worse.

Am going to look at this closer. Thanks.

Corbett was not the AG at the time; Mike Fisher was. At that point, the only election he won had been for township commissioner in Allegheny County.

I wouldn't be to surprised if RFG would get very little political support after 2004, when Corbett was elected AG, but why would he care? He wasn't planning to run for anything.

You saw how much Corbett's support helped Madeira in 2009.

 

[SeekingJana]

If he were to show up in the Courthouse, his daughter would lose a substantial pension benefit.

BUT would have her father back!!! Do you know what I would do to have my father back? Most of us have lost parents and would provide the white horse for him to ride into the courthouse on!!!

I just wish he could be alive and well, whatever the reason.

 

[SeekingJana]

The two great WSers doing the UID searches have said there were no indications of the brand names in his clothing. We now have one- Tony said that the blue fleece jacket was Eddie Bauer.

THANK YOU, TONY!!!
KUDOS to the searhcers of UID remains!:rocker:

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Do we know for certain what major cases he was working on at the time?

 

[SeekingJana]

I noticed that...nothing on IB. Lots was editted out of that, I am sure. Like the 'feel' of the SOS, that had been reported.

We are going to have to resort to some other means to validate IB.

I'm rather glad that the " waters weren't further muddied" with Ivy's 6.5 year revelation to the TV crew...
I HOPE they gave LE her name and the info, and that she was interviewed, and her daughter who is said by her to have worked at the SOS at the time was also interviewed. I have wondered if Ivy was trying to insinuate that her daughter was the " young blonde".
Experience with other cases has shown me that some people will go to extraordinary lengths for their 15 minutes of fame, regardless of the emotional cost to others.
It was obvious to me that both Tony and Patty have had very rough going. They don't need more innuendo. If there is a blonde woman involved, let LE intervew IB until " young blonde woman" is found and can be questioned.

 

[SeekingJana]

The CDT has a brief article about tonight's Dateline. I always try NOT to read comments that follow articles on websites, as they are a quick and effective way to lose any remaining faith I have in humanity. Due to curiosity, I went against my best judgment and read them. The first commenter states that they know "as a fact" that Mr. Gricar was gay, and that he hid it well for years. Most of the remaining comments go downhill from there.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/16/3022062/show-to-explore-gricar-link.html#disqus_thread

I learned years ago to stay away from the wing nuts who come out of the woodwork to post on the newspaper blurbs.

IF a person wants a GOOD representation of what people think about Ray Gricar, go to the ID channel website, and look at his bio under Season 3 of " Disappeared".
ALL of the comments on HIS case are positive and supportive.
This is not true for many of the other missing persons, unfortunately.

In my former longtime hometown, a woman jumped off a bridge, leaving her car engine running. Her body was found 19 MILES downstream in a major US river days later.. The comments at the top were very awful. I couldn't help but see them.
Likewise, the daughter of a classmate of mine was decapitated and her remains scattered over city blocks recently. Again, there were NUTS taking up for the killer, who is a very scary dude.

We really are mentally healthier not to read the rantings of the anonymous disturbed.

 

[SeekingJana]

New blog up on how well many here are doing.

Relevant to the new CDT blog post regarding the recent laptop theories, of course.
Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billie Joe - YouTube

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BUT would have her father back!!! Do you know what I would do to have my father back? Most of us have lost parents and would provide the white horse for him to ride into the courthouse on!!!

I just wish he could be alive and well, whatever the reason.

If he walked away, RFG would have to know that she would lose that money.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Do we know for certain what major cases he was working on at the time?

A shaken baby case that was weak (the DA's Office had to plea it down to involuntary manslaughter with time served). Most of what was going on was being handled by ADA's.

 

[arielilane]

I understand that it was Lara that petitioned the court to declare her Dad legally dead. Did she have to testify or since so much time had passed was it not relevant for her to testify? Thank you in advance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm rather glad that the " waters weren't further muddied" with Ivy's 6.5 year revelation to the TV crew...
I HOPE they gave LE her name and the info, and that she was interviewed, and her daughter who is said by her to have worked at the SOS at the time was also interviewed. I have wondered if Ivy was trying to insinuate that her daughter was the " young blonde".
Experience with other cases has shown me that some people will go to extraordinary lengths for their 15 minutes of fame, regardless of the emotional cost to others.
It was obvious to me that both Tony and Patty have had very rough going. They don't need more innuendo. If there is a blonde woman involved, let LE intervew IB until " young blonde woman" is found and can be questioned.

PEF and LG were on tape from 2006. TG, BB, DZ, SW, and MTM were recent.

As I indicated, the blonde was weak; she might have seen the other couple. There were multiple sighting of the LMW.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I understand that it was Lara that petitioned the court to declare her Dad legally dead. Did she have to testify or since so much time had passed was it not relevant for her to testify? Thank you in advance.

She testified by telephone. In general, they wait seven years, though it is not automatic or required.

If she knew that RFG is out there alive, and it was discovered, she's be in big trouble. It's called perjury. That is one of the reasons I don't think RFG would tell her, if he's out there.

It's the same with PEF; she testified in person.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I learned years ago to stay away from the wing nuts who come out of the woodwork to post on the newspaper blurbs.

IF a person wants a GOOD representation of what people think about Ray Gricar, go to the ID channel website, and look at his bio under Season 3 of " Disappeared".
ALL of the comments on HIS case are positive and supportive.
This is not true for many of the other missing persons, unfortunately.

In my former longtime hometown, a woman jumped off a bridge, leaving her car engine running. Her body was found 19 MILES downstream in a major US river days later.. The comments at the top were very awful. I couldn't help but see them.
Likewise, the daughter of a classmate of mine was decapitated and her remains scattered over city blocks recently. Again, there were NUTS taking up for the killer, who is a very scary dude.

We really are mentally healthier not to read the rantings of the anonymous disturbed.

He did have problems at some points, including being sanctioned for improper conduct. It was a good record, but not a perfect one.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Let me make sure I am understanding correctly-

Mr. Gricar sat with the grand jury and heard the testimony from victim 6. The police were in the home of one of the “victims” homes when Sandusky admits of his showers with the victim, and admits that he KNEW he was wrong. And still Mr. Gricar claimed there just wasn’t enough evidence to prosecute?
Did Mr. Gricar decide NOT to prosecute Sandusky to protect Penn State or himself?

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I have been known to exhibit certain instincts ... lol

Keep up your excellent questions !!!

Aww, thanks! :blushing:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Let me make sure I am understanding correctly-

Mr. Gricar sat with the grand jury and heard the testimony from victim 6. The police were in the home of one of the “victims” homes when Sandusky admits of his showers with the victim, and admits that he KNEW he was wrong. And still Mr. Gricar claimed there just wasn’t enough evidence to prosecute?
Did Mr. Gricar decide NOT to prosecute Sandusky to protect Penn State or himself?

There was no grand jury in 1998. The evidence that that was gathered in 1998 regarding Victim 6 was taken to the grand jury in 2010-11.

In 1998, the evidence was submitted regarding Victim 6 and B. K. and sent to RFG. He chose not to prosecute. We don't know why RFG chose not to prosecute or to call a grand jury himself, which he also had the power to do.

Very clearly, there was sufficient evidence to prosecute (probable cause), as the AG is prosecuting on that incident, and as Mr. Amendola chose not to challenge the propriety of the charges.

I should note that the charges relating to Victim 6 do not include rape. Only one misdemeanor charge specifically requires that the act be “the purpose of arousing sexual desire in the person or the complainant.” The six other misdemeanors do not. The four felonies does not specifically require it.

I would also point out that the statute was only 5 months old in May of 1998.

 

[AllisonS]

He did have problems at some points, including being sanctioned for improper conduct. It was a good record, but not a perfect one.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a 'perfect' record out there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think you would be hard pressed to find a 'perfect' record out there.

That is one of the reasons that it has not been emphasized. I think you have seen it mentioned twice in about 300 blog entries, without going into detail.

 

[BigCat]

There was no grand jury in 1998. The evidence that that was gathered in 1998 regarding Victim 6 was taken to the grand jury in 2010-11.

In 1998, the evidence was submitted regarding Victim 6 and B. K. and sent to RFG. He chose not to prosecute. We don't know why RFG chose not to prosecute or to call a grand jury himself, which he also had the power to do.

Very clearly, there was sufficient evidence to prosecute (probable cause), as the AG is prosecuting on that incident, and as Mr. Amendola chose not to challenge the propriety of the charges.

I should note that the charges relating to Victim 6 do not include rape. Only one misdemeanor charge specifically requires that the act be “the purpose of arousing sexual desire in the person or the complainant.” The six other misdemeanors do not. The four felonies does not specifically require it.

I would also point out that the statute was only 5 months old in May of 1998.

Even if Sandusky had been acquitted on all charges, he certainly would have lost his job as defensive coordinator at Penn State and his affiliation with Second Mile. His access to boys would have been severely limited. In the process, however, the reputation of Penn State football would have been damaged, in a much more significant way than the previous cases RFG prosecuted involving Penn State football.

I know the two DAs interviewed on Dateline last night were adamant that RFG didn't flinch. But what if he did? Wouldn't that -- the thought of failing to live up to the Atticus Finch image -- be all the more reason for him to feel ashamed, all the more reason for him to disappear? (I had to throw in the Southern Gothic reference).

I'm speaking more from a pyschological point of view. I have a lot of respect for the command of the subject displayed in this forum, so I'll defer to others on whether the evidence supports such a conclusion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Even if Sandusky had been acquitted on all charges, he certainly would have lost his job as defensive coordinator at Penn State and his affiliation with Second Mile. His access to boys would have been severely limited. In the process, however, the reputation of Penn State football would have been damaged, in a much more significant way than the previous cases RFG prosecuted involving Penn State football.

I don't know. In 2002 or 2003, he prosecuted a football player for rape, and lost. Paterno got heat for having the player dress for a bowl game. The allegations relating to Victim 6 were not as serious as many of the others. Yes, it would have been damaging, but even bringing the charges in 1999 or 2000 would have been possible; it would have been nowhere near the scandal it is now.

It would have been devastating for Second Mile.

I know the two DAs interviewed on Dateline last night were adamant that RFG didn't flinch. But what if he did? Wouldn't that -- the thought of failing to live up to the Atticus Finch image -- be all the more reason for him to feel ashamed, all the more reason for him to disappear? (I had to throw in the Southern Gothic reference).

Just not being around to answer questions, or having news crews at your door, could be a good enough reason to vanish. Arguably, his daughter gained more financially because RFG "died" while in office.