PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

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Snipped for brevity.

It's one of the few walkaway pieces that seem, in retrospect, like he was talking about a part of his plans rather casually and often, instead of just thinking about them . That's the main takeaway for me- that he mentioned a computer HD so often. It's really very childish in tone to me that an adult his age couldn't just go do it instead of obsessing about it, then apparently leaving the task undone until the very last moment.

Also, the fact that he didn't wipe his home desk PC HD with a software program, leaving searches available on that exact subject. It always makes me giggle that he was so focused, yet missed the search history on at least one computer.

It could point to at least two different things:

1. RFG still needed whatever was on his laptop on 4/15/05 in order to walk away. Maybe, he just finished using it and then sent it off to flash drive.

2. RFG was not planning to walk away, but he wanted whatever was on it to remain private. He didn't want to risk someone in the IT department finding what was on there.
 
Snipped for brevity.



It could point to at least two different things:

1. RFG still needed whatever was on his laptop on 4/15/05 in order to walk away. Maybe, he just finished using it and then sent it off to flash drive.

2. RFG was not planning to walk away, but he wanted whatever was on it to remain private. He didn't want to risk someone in the IT department finding what was on there.

Well, I've known you for years now, and I can tell you that if you called me up asking how to delete your mobile phone texts and photos, or your computer HD, I'd wonder " What's on there he wants to hide?"

Did he do this on purpose for some reason? He's too smart to more or less announce that there's info that needs to come off a HD for at least a year before he disappeared.

Could it have been both true, as the HD was destroyed by the river sediment, and sort of a decoy statement that he had " secretive" things on his HD not related to casework? The IT dept. was likely used to disposing of the DA dept's old data ( floppy discs, resetting their email programs and Office, as buggy as they used to be).

Since he never seemed to preface the question with " I have this old laptop that's past its lifespan and I need to dispose of it", even though it was county equipment and not his to dispose, I'd probably ask him something about why the HD contents needed to be obliterated.
I wonder if anyone ever did ask? As you know, I ask what I want to know!

Why do you think he was so free to ask something that has sensitive implications? There's really no benign answer, IMO, for the county's property..... and then he left town, laptop with him.... not to be seen again....

This is seriously creeping me out, and I don't know why. It never has before but it is now. I have the feeling he might have been WANTING someone to ask him more about the laptop HD destruction.... Someone to CARE enough to ask him...
Because I don't think Patty would have, or that he'd have cared what she said anyway.
 
How long had Ray and Patty been together?

Do we know if she was ever pressing him to marry her?
 
No, in terms of missing person cases. Most missing persons cases are voluntary.

no no , I think I mean murdered persons ..spouses that go missing later found dead..isnt the first suspect always the spouse?
 
some people have mental illness and are able to hide it...like could Ray have had years of depressive bouts followed by highs tempered by socializing and a stable home life?

could Ray have been overcome by his mania ? could he have been under a delusion ? having paranoia and set off on an odyssey that ended in death or him literally becoming a street person?

I knew a very successful man who lost his mind. He was seen wandering, he was stalking people for bizarre reasons only understood by him, he wrote odd letters and and let his highly successful ( "it" place to be) bar shutter and close for seemingly no good reason...and ended in a mental facility for life long care.

the thing is unless PF saw something unusual in Ray , it's hard to know... sleeping, depressed, distracted..she may not really know Ray or have an opinion about his mental state...this is why I think they should look much harder..I am still not really thinking this but it is possible.

for all we know there was nothing on that hard drive and Ray was in a spy movie that was all in his mind.

too much is unanswered and where is his money?

mOO
 
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some people have mental illness and are able to hide it...like could Ray have had years of depressive bouts followed by highs tempered by socializing and a stable home life?

could Ray have been overcome by his mania ? could he have been under a delusion ? having paranoia and set off on an odyssey that ended in death or him literally becoming a street person?

I knew a very successful man who lost his mind. He was seen wandering, he was stalking people for bizarre reasons only understood by him, he wrote odd letters and and let his highly successful ( "it" place to be) bar shutter and close for seemingly no good reason...and ended in a mental facility for life long care.

the thing is unless PF saw something unusual in Ray , it's hard to know... sleeping, depressed, distracted..she may not really know Ray or have an opinion about his mental state...this is why I think they should look much harder..I am still not really thinking this but it is possible.

for all we know there was nothing on that hard drive and Ray was in a spy movie that was all in his mind.

too much is unanswered and where is his money?

mOO
I'm answering both your posts in one post as it all dovetails together.
No, Ray was not mentally ill. There is nothing in his history or his friends' histories with him that is strange or points to mental illness. Each of us in the US enjoy the personal freedom to leave our career, our friends, and our country to move elsewhere in the world. Where we go is no one else's business. It is not a crime to leave a fairly ordinary and small life like Ray's and start over. He had one daughter, and she was married and living far away. Her home was established in the Pacific northwestern US. He had no wife or other children, so he basically left a convenient arrangement with Patty, and that's it except for his career, which was months from being finished according to his definition. He was not seeking re-election as D.A. and he didn't want to practice law in an office setting after being D.A.

All of Ray's medical records and his professional reports and writings were gone over looking for a hint of mental illness, a depression or a mental break with reality. NOTHING out of the ordinary was found.

His appearance was neat, not showy but nice. I, a stranger, would have talked to him if he asked me a question or something. He seemed very well groomed, physically fit, the kind of man who would jog and go for brisk walks. I believe, from something I read, that he was somewhat austere in his eating preferences, and was not known to drink alcohol. I believe he had attorney friends who liked their fine cigars and cognac, but I believe he was amused, and just watched, not wanting to partake.

He did some area hiking on weekends. We don't know if he was part of a hiking group or if he was stuck with Patty on weekends, too. I would expect him to not take risky hikes, but more like bird spotting strolls. He never displayed risky behavior from the reports of his friends. They said he sometimes drove his little sports car a bit fast, but there are some of us who just love to drive a bit fast with the music up a bit, happy as can be. I totally understand that, as I've always been the same way.

He DID ask a nurse on duty to marry him upon first meeting. I have had this happen as a nurse as well, but it's likely Ray wasn't truly serious about a runaway marriage, but wanted to date her. It's not known who she is, or where she is, but I tend to think the anecdote was fairly close to his leaving Bellefonte. His friend or friends who apparently were present remembered the exchange, which likely means it wasn't " years ago" at that time.

I don't think Ray and Patty had a complicated relationship. It seemed like he paid her mortgage off and bought her the Mini Cooper, and in exchange, he had the affections of a plain but neat appearing , settled 40 year old he worked with at the court house to sleep with, to cook his meals, and keep her house clean. She spoke on video after he was missing like he was the love of her life, and he may have been, but there's no grand gestures on either person's part that we are aware of which demonstrates great love one for the other.

The most loving thing I know that he did was when Steve Sloane, one of his ADAs, had a near fatal car accident with many severe injuries, Ray spent time in the evening reading to Steve. Likely, Steve remembers hearing Ray's voice and that's it. Still, Ray extended himself for someone in deep pain and injury in the hospital, so this shows he was an empathetic and kind hearted man. Maybe he didn't read to strangers ( I wouldn't either) but he did to his friend.

Another gentle and loving thing he did was when he and Barbara adopted Lara, an infant. He stayed home for about a year and a half and was the caregiver for his baby girl while his wife was working as a professor. I always hate it when this part gets left out, because not many attorneys would step out of their professional life to put their newborn baby first. I think it shows so much love for his daughter. My source for this info is his Wikipedia entry. It may or may not be correct, as most historians say he offered to take care of Lara as a full- time parent at home, but the ADA job in Centre County opened up. I think maybe the timeline is a bit off and that he did stay home with a newborn to very small infant for as long as he could do so. To be with her, to bond with her, to show her love and devotion as a father.

There are photos of the house he shared with Patty after he was gone. We know he collected antique toys, especially trains. There was not one shred of anything that looked like it could belong to Ray in the photos, not even photos. He had been obliterated from the very small personal life he'd led for the last 18 months to 2 years in Bellefonte. As for what Patty did with his things, we don't know.

The part of your post about Patty not really knowing him is likely true on many levels. She likely was not cerebral enough to communicate with him on his level. They probably had talks about that dog as much as any other thing, or their food. She seemed shallow and bland to me. I think he'd be suffocating for need of a deeper connection. Patty took the casual mention of a drive through the country with stops at interesting places after Ray retired as some huge flashing sign that they'd always be together, and that the trip had some special meaning for her in their time together. I don't know why she'd think this, unless Ray TRULY didn't take her out much at all. It's pitiful to hear her wax poetic about a long car trip with no destinations or point to it. Not even Disney World.

He was not mentally ill. Unless people have left out literally books' worth of information about him, we have a clear picture into his life, some of which I've just told you about. His caseload was that of the senior D.A., he was the supervisor of his department, which was well run. He was in press conferences, demeanor normal. He was on video going into the courthouse through the parking lot on Wed. or Thurs. evening, and he looks normally peppy, head in normal position, walking at a nice brisk pace. He saw a tricked out Jeep and turned to look at it pass through the employees' parking lot, so he was very aware of his surroundings.

I didn't get the feeling that he talked much about his home life, including Patty. What's really to say? Also, it was a bit tawdry and he likely knew it was an extremely temporary thing. No engagement ring, no plans to marry on his part that we know of.
It seemed Convenient for him to be living with Patty more than anything else. No commitments, he probably paid for all the food, utilities, gasoline, etc. but, again, I think it was a " small life" they had. Quiet and small.

I bet he could hardly wait to leave.
 
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How long had Ray and Patty been together?

Do we know if she was ever pressing him to marry her?

The second part of your questions, was she ever pressing him to marry her?

I don't recall anyone speaking out to say theirs was a " deep love", or that he'd never in a million years leave her, or her, him.
No commitments had been made as far as is known.

They were not engaged to be married, not even at some undefined point in the future.
I believe that both had weathered at least one bad marriage in the past ( Ray's to Emma Gricar was said to be a stormy marriage until the very end, and short as well).

Did she want to get remarried? She was 40 when he disappeared, so probably. He was just shy of 20 years older ( at age 59) so whether she was perfectly OK with the age difference is unknown, but I think she was. She was a low energy type person as far as I've been able to find out. Her life was not full of parties, dancing and dining in a city away from their hometown, Ray or not.

I don't think men look at ages much if the woman is younger or maybe just a few years older.

My general opinion has always been that Ray likely would have remarried IF " the woman of his dreams" came into his life. I think he'd have had to be thunderstruck by the qualities she possessed that he valued above all else, and I think she would have had to have been pretty enough to stand out from the crowd immediately. Likely, a blonde with long or long-ish hair, as his first wife and Patty were such drab little brunettes with boyish features and haircuts.
His second wife was said to have been a pretty blonde when he met her. That's really all I know about her, other than it was a short and unhappy marriage they likely rushed into.
I think he'd pick a future spouse with great intelligence as well, and possibly someone in the public eye such as a college professor, like his first wife, Barbara. Barbara fits my description of " brilliant" intellectually, and Ray was probably her equal, just in entirely different fields of knowledge and expertise.

I believe Patty did marry someone from outside Bellefonte and finally moved out of her childhood home, where she had lived with Ray. I have no idea of the specifics, but am marginally glad she's likely not living alone now.

I believe that if Ray did walk away, and lived for years, he definitely would have found someone lovely to be a part of his life. I also think that if he's still alive, he's likely still with that person. He would likely have wanted more in a relationship than the small one he left behind, and would have cherished a mate in a new city, as she would be his anchor, and he, hers.
I've obviously thought about this for many years, and while the future part is not factual, it fits my personal profile of his desired general life partner/ a future with a wife somewhere. I really hope he had the chance for a future, and I wish we could at least know if he has lived past April 15-16, 2005. :)
 
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there is no way he left and started a new life..if he did..the new life was not a new woman, family and lifestyle..there just is no way. This is my opinion obviously not shared

unless...

his new life is something he would be embarrassed about..possibly coming out as a homosexual man....and that makes no sense either because he could go live a quiet life and collect his retirement and no one would care about his sex life... There are many closeted and bisexual men who have beards or ..lavender relationships with women to hide their sexuality.

the idea that he could of been meeting with someone regarding the Sandusky case is interesting, but it doesn't explain the hard drive stop.

I don't think Ray was computer savvy..like many men from that generation..and I bet that laptop
was full of stuff he wouldn't want seen. he wasn't going to return it intact. Also probably has info on informants etc..

the hard drive is a sticking point...for some reason he chose to dispose of it on the day he disappeared. he did a good job too because nothing could be retrieved.

So what was really going on?

he was murdered/ died during a hook up
he totally left the area and killed himself because he was depressed

Love triangle/affair
someone was after him and he knew it and ran
someone was after him and murdered him

Sandusky had him whacked because he was continuing to investigate him.

maybe he went home that day and was killed and the whole thing is BS..and it wasn't Ray but someone else who moved the car, and maybe even brought it back to Lewisburg.. I don't trust the eye witness.

the dog traced a short distance that never left the parking lot..could have even been someone in Ray's clothing and got into another car..?

he totally left the area because he had gone insane and became a hobo...and all of his actions were part of his mania.

just random thoughts...mOO
 
PEF, sometime in the mid 2010's, entered into relationship with the county administrator; they lived together. I do not know if they are still together, but he does work in Centre County. They had moved out of the county together in 2016, but they are both back as of 2020.

PEF has been involved in three relationships, so far as I know. The first was her husband, whom she met in either at PSU, or when a probation officer; both were probation officers for Centre County after graduation. The second was RFG. The third was the county administrator who she became involved with after RFG was declared dead.

Her ex-husband is still alive and PEF is Catholic; she was married within the Church. That might be the reason she has never remarried. That is speculation on my part.

As some of you, I had a roommate, for about 4 years, who moved in after her SO of nearly 25 years died. We have been friends for almost 35 years when she moved, and it has always been platonic. Explaining the situation to a family member, he asked, "Why didn't he marry her." My response was quite honest, "She said no." He had proposed to her several times, and she declined each time. She had been previously married, and just did not want to get married again. That could be the case with PEF as well.
 
Snipped for emphasis.

Sandusky had him whacked because he was continuing to investigate him.

To date, there is no evidence that RFG was looking at Sandusky. He told another DA that Sandusky was a pedophile and that he wanted to "get him."

There is no evidence that he contacted any of the victim's mothers. The mother of Victim 6 actually helped the investigators from the AG's Office locate other victims. She was never contacted by RFG. While the rumors circulating about the 2001 McQueary incident in 2005, McQueary was never contacted by anyone from the Centre County DA's Office.

The police report and psychologist's letter were faxed to the DA's Office in 1998. As of 2009, there was no file on the case in the DA's Office, even though there was a hard copy sent and even though a copy was on file at PSU.
 
okay here's a twister...what if PF was the one cheating? hmmmm...I am crazy today. lolz!!!
 
okay here's a twister...what if PF was the one cheating? hmmmm...I am crazy today. lolz!!!

Well, as I like to say, I was not R. Kelly hiding in anyone's closet, so I don't know if either was cheating. :)

I have heard a huge number of rumor that RFG was cheating on his second wife. It was RFG, however, who filed for divorce and he cited the ground as being the marriage being "irretrievably broken." I'm also aware that someone in the public eye is usually the target for these types of rumors.

[Since we are on the subject, someone on Facebook accused me of having an affair with the former DA of Centre County, which is interesting since I never met her in person, or talked to her by phone, and we live more than 150 miles apart. LOL]

If PEF didn't want to be in a relationship with RFG she could could have said, **Get out of my house and don't use my Mini Cooper to do it.** They were both in her name, solely. For that reason, I don't see any connection to RFG's disappearance. PEF also took a voluntary pay cut so that she could retire at the same time as RFG
 
interesting.

sometimes cheaters file for divorce first..because they don't want to be married anymore and will still blame the spouse for the break up + the cheating.

other times they will not know how to end the other relationship without losing stuff ...like retirement, children, property, standing in the community etc.

I think usually, women tend to cheat when their emotional needs are not being met. with men it tends to be more sex/ego related. but both can be true of either sex.

mOO
 
interesting.

sometimes cheaters file for divorce first..because they don't want to be married anymore and will still blame the spouse for the break up + the cheating.

other times they will not know how to end the other relationship without losing stuff ...like retirement, children, property, standing in the community etc.

I think usually, women tend to cheat when their emotional needs are not being met. with men it tends to be more sex/ego related. but both can be true of either sex.

mOO

In the case of PEF, property wouldn't apply; they didn't own anything jointly. The house and the car are in her name.
 
A podcast from Nancy Grace. ‘Crime Stories with Nancy Grace’: Respected District Attorney Vanishes During Weekend Road Trip

The only new evidence is that one of the witnesses at the Packwood Museum in Lewisburg saw Gricar talking on a cell phone, gesturing. The county issued cell phone records do not show any calls from Lewisburg.

Assume that the singular witness was accurate. It would have been RFG talking on a cell phone, it would have to have been a burner. So, he is now 55 miles from home, with his regular cell phone turned off, talking on a burner. That would be highly suspicious activity on his part. As a practical matter, the only people who would have had a method to determine who he called, on his county issue cell phone, would be the county, or LE.

That certainly does not point to prosecuting Sandusky, or anyone else.
 
Snipped for emphasis.



To date, there is no evidence that RFG was looking at Sandusky. He told another DA that Sandusky was a pedophile and that he wanted to "get him."

There is no evidence that he contacted any of the victim's mothers. The mother of Victim 6 actually helped the investigators from the AG's Office locate other victims. She was never contacted by RFG. While the rumors circulating about the 2001 McQueary incident in 2005, McQueary was never contacted by anyone from the Centre County DA's Office.

The police report and psychologist's letter were faxed to the DA's Office in 1998. As of 2009, there was no file on the case in the DA's Office, even though there was a hard copy sent and even though a copy was on file at PSU.

and how do DA's generally go about "gitt'n" people?

they continue to investigate.

mOO
 
well if he wanted to get him what was stopping him? Obviously Sandusky was going to town for years on end..
 
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