PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

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that's all great but I know families like this..one is a trader, one is a circuit court judge, one is a fireman..I'm just saying..you don't have to be Italian or drive garbage trucks to be mobbed up. I know what I'm implying is far out and this isn't the Saprano's...but I do know a person in this family that might kill for a sibling.. This was many years ago but I will tell you
all the Italian families know each other from church and growing up with Irish kids in the catholic school system...I know it's far out but I still want to take a dive into PEF...like what if PEF is really psycho and Ray was running away from her???? she seems super clingy..even working with him..

just odd...and then Ray doesn't even consider marrying her? gives her a car? that's it? this guy is making bank and then he's meeting up with women possibly? I mean in some families, Ray would be considered a ... endlessly shacking up...giving the bare minimum...living like a college kid.

mOO
 
that's all great but I know families like this..one is a trader, one is a circuit court judge, one is a fireman..I'm just saying..you don't have to be Italian or drive garbage trucks to be mobbed up. I know what I'm implying is far out and this isn't the Saprano's...but I do know a person in this family that might kill for a sibling.. This was many years ago but I will tell you
all the Italian families know each other from church and growing up with Irish kids in the catholic school system...I know it's far out but I still want to take a dive into PEF...like what if PEF is really psycho and Ray was running away from her???? she seems super clingy..even working with him..

just odd...and then Ray doesn't even consider marrying her? gives her a car? that's it? this guy is making bank and then he's meeting up with women possibly? I mean in some families, Ray would be considered a ... endlessly shacking up...giving the bare minimum...living like a college kid.

mOO

I would not assume it was Ray's choice. PEF and her current SO are not married. My closest friend lived with her SO for 25 years before he died. He asked her to marry him several times; she said no.

She was working for the DA's before they started dating. Prior to that, she was a probation officer. Further, there was not a large Italian or Catholic population in Centre County in the period when she grew up. In the mid-1980's, I was in College Republicans at PSU. Three of the officers were Catholic and they joked that they were the only three Catholics in Centre County. Bellefonte did not have a large Italian or Catholic population at the time. RFG, at best, was a "Christmas Catholic."
 
Only impossible if
1. The witnesses at both the courthouse and gym are accurate and verified
2. Nobody else was involved and Patty acted alone. If someone else was involved then there are many possibilities of her involvement

I believe they were, because PEF was questioned formally by the PSP and informally by McKnight and Buehner. Buehner described her as "guileless."

Keep in mind that PEF said, publicly, that she was at the gym, anyone who was there on Friday afternoon and did not see her would likely have come forward. Bellefonte is not a big town. That is why you have some witnesses that saw him on 4/15/05 heading towards Lewisburg.
 
Can you elaborate?

From Diary of Freeh Investigator Kathleen McChesney:

Got report on -----------; 3 reports

1988: Administrative Information: approaches a 13 yo boy outside of rec hall, boy tells his father & father calls police.------- says he was doing survey about ppl looking for boys; he writes to v. Says he'll go to a counselor & report says there are other similar reports - they accept his verbal promise

1993 - Same thing approached 16 year old invited to wrestling room, charged w/disorderly conduct & he signs a thing that he won't come on property & Amendola signs the form to stay out of REC Hall & IM unless he - Not charged

1995 Criminal trespass at IM building, Sowerby saw him there & checked & found him, confronted him & spoke to Gricar who said he spoke with Harmon & Schmidt; advised officer not to file charges - said he'd talk to Amendola about ------- - handled by Schreffler

From 2016 DOE Report on Penn State Clery Compliance:

The Department notes that this was not the first time that Penn State dealt with an influential member of the
community that exhibited behaviors consistent with those of a potential child predator in a lenient manner.
Specifically, in 1988, the PSUPD questioned a man who had been reported for inappropriate interactions with
teenaged boys outside of a University recreational building. The suspect, a male in his 50s, approached a 13 year-
old boy at 9:45 p.m. and told the boy he was taking a survey. He asked the boy “if he was strong” and “if he was a
wrestler.” When approached by PSUPD, the suspect confirmed the reports and was directed by a PSUPD officer to
cease all such activities and leave campus. Five years later in 1993, the same individual engaged in similar acts on
campus, this time with a 16 year-old boy. He was reported to PSUPD by the boy’s father. This time, the incident
was investigated and determined to be disorderly conduct/harassment. The subject was issued a “Notice Against
Trespass,” which proscribed strict limitations on his access of various Penn State facilities. These limitations were
repeatedly violated. For reasons that remain unclear, no criminal charges were pursued despite multiple violations
of the no trespass order. In fact, the subject continued to enjoy access to the campus facilities for the next two
decades, up to and including 2016
 
There are several things:

1. In 1988 and 1993, it is not clear if the DA's office was ever notified.

2. There was a new statute under which Sandusky was charged, "Unlawful Contact" could apply. The law was not adopted until 1998. I would question if he could have been charged for anything other than trespassing at that point even in 1995.

3. The individual was a high profile employee of a major corporation that had strong PSU ties. It might have put him in an "untouchable" position, where things were handled in-house. This may be the same type of things we saw in other counties with the Catholic Church. It was not that the DA's were soft on pedophilia; it was that they were willing to go up against a major institution in their constituencies.

With the last one, I am tempted to quote the Dylan lyric, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing."
 
45 minutes left for the annual date Ray Gricar disappeared:
April 15, 2005

Ray, you are remembered, whether you lived only until April 15, 2005, or lived for years and are now deceased, or are still alive.
You made a lasting impression on my life in the days following your disappearance.

Some people are unique in their ability to be remembered poignantly and you are one of those rare people for me. I do have a bit of slim hope you are still alive, but if not, I hope you passed away peacefully and believed in God and heaven as you aged.

This date is as poignant ( and more unusual) as days of losses of great loves in my life and my parents' demises.

Godspeed, Ray, Godspeed ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
 
In look a foul play, I'd list these possibilities.

1. Romantic encounter gone wrong:

A. Has a "lover's quarrel" that becomes physical. Even without intent, lover kills RFG.

B. RFG has accident or health crises and dies. Lover does not wish spouse, S.O., family to know that was involved with RFG and hides the body.

Problem: No record of contact.

2. Payoff gone wrong:

A. RFG was blackmailing someone and was killed while trying to collect blackmail.

B. RFG was getting a bribe to not prosecute. as was killed while trying to collect.

Problems: No record of contact. No incriminating or embarrassing information found. Logic problem because someone else would prosecute.

3. Random crime victim:

Problems: Violent random crimes rare in Lewisburg. Criminal would likely steal car. Laptop destroyed, not resold. Body not found

4. Accident victim
:

Problem: Most hit and runs do not stop and hide the body.
 
Do you have the year he went to prison on the cab driver murder? TIA

Hodne went to prison in August of 1988.

RFG was not in Centre County when Hodne was arrested, not with the DA's Office when Hodne was tried, and was alive and well when Hodne went to prison for life.

The sole connection is that the person who prosecuted the case hired Gricar about a year later.
 
the problem with this whole thing is the laptop disposal.

it is either fundamentally connected to Ray's disappearance or it was a random task and had nothing at all to do with it.

so,
chucking the hard drive before he retires so he can avoid handing it in.
( ok, so what does he say happened to the State's computer that could have classified information? ). He lost it? he broke it?

chucking the hard drive before he jumps in the river?
well he's not stupid and knows they will be looking everywhere for everything and they will be looking for the laptop because it will be missing along with Ray. Also he did this in broad daylight in clear view of others.

chucking the hard drive as per some instructions.
some threatening entity has instructed Ray to dispose of this laptop and hard drive.
it's so Dr. Evil..probably not...but leads to the next..

chucking the hard drive because he knows someone is on to something and if they find the laptop they will have the proof they need.
is it proof of an affair? proof of alternate lifestyle? weird sexual proclivities?

chucking the hard drive because it has all his secret banking info.
and he's gonna walk away.

honestly if he hadn't chucked that laptop we would probably not rush to
a suicide or voluntary walk away...but the laptop ..well he was taking care of business..so he jumped in the river....if only...

mOO
 
Respectfully snipped.

honestly if he hadn't chucked that laptop we would probably not rush to
a suicide or voluntary walk away...but the laptop ..well he was taking care of business..so he jumped in the river....if only...

mOO

No, what triggered all the thought of suicide was Tony Gricar drawing the parallel between Roy Gricar and Ray Gricar. It was not an unreasonable conclusion to jump to, considering family history. In 2005, it was known that there could be a genetic component to depression and that depression could lead to suicide. Suicide was said to "run in families." In 2011, a genetic predisposition for suicide was discovered.

The laptop was not discovered missing until 4/17/05; it was not publicized until several days after that. It was not found until 7/30/05, minus the hard drive.

It is hugely unlikely that someone other than RFG tossed the drive. Only he would know what was on the drive and only he would have known if he copied what was on the drive elsewhere.
 
oh no I never thought anyone other than Ray disposed of the laptop.

but the laptop has significance. it is part of a series of events that happened just prior to him going missing. Really I am just stating the obvious.

that something was going on...or nothing was going on..it's infuriating and I blame the laptop!!!!! lolz...mOO
 
oh no I never thought anyone other than Ray disposed of the laptop.

but the laptop has significance. it is part of a series of events that happened just prior to him going missing. Really I am just stating the obvious.

that something was going on...or nothing was going on..it's infuriating and I blame the laptop!!!!! lolz...mOO

Yes and no.

First, I agree that the laptop could be independent of what ever happened to RFG. RFG could have just been planning to tell the county on Monday that he had lost the laptop over the weekend and that he would pay for it.

This is something that he was looking to do for a while. He bought software about a year prior to his disappearance to wipe the drive. He ask the chief public defender about how to do it in the same time frame.

However, it would be a huge coincidence for RFG to have been a victim of foul play just after he got rid of the laptop.
 
Hodne went to prison in August of 1988.

RFG was not in Centre County when Hodne was arrested, not with the DA's Office when Hodne was tried, and was alive and well when Hodne went to prison for life.

The sole connection is that the person who prosecuted the case hired Gricar about a year later.

I'm asking for a different reason, not a Grocer connection. I wasn't aware of God be before that article. Was he sent to prison for the last time in 1988? TIA
 
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