PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[J. J. in Phila]

There are no serious, unbiased comprehensive books on this scandal, which is very telling in and of itself given how many authors are quick to jump on criminal case stories and beat them to death.

Most books on the scandal are from Paterno/Sandusky apologists or from victims (Aaron and Matt). The only neutral one I'm aware of, Game Over, was rushed out in four months and came out before the Freeh Report and Jerry's trial.

The lack on research on the case from neutral parties is remarkable.

There are several books, but there are also a number of in depth news articles, even scholarly papers on scandal or parts of the scandal. There is "Wounded Lions," a retired PSU professor who writes on sports history.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray Gricar, a Pa. district attorney, went for a drive 17 years ago. He hasn’t been seen since

Posted Three days ago but sadly behind a pay wall.

Part of it is quoted about a page back.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JMO, the fact that it took nearly 13 years between the time an assault was first reported to prosecutors and a serious investigation finally began, it looks like there's a LOT we don't know about cover ups and other obstructions in the process. They've covered some of the obstruction that was done by Penn State, but AFAIK, haven't touched on anything on the side of LE and prosecution.

The investigation started in 2009, with the initial report being made in 2008. It was referred to Clinton County authorities, who passed it to Centre County, who passed it to the AG's Office in 2/09. The Moulton Report, commissioned by the AG's Office, did investigate LE's investigation.

When RFG declined to prosecute in 1998, nobody in LE knew anything about this until 2008. The PSU 3 knew about the 2001 incident (along with the 1998 incident) but they told LE or DPW.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

There are several books, but there are also a number of in depth news articles, even scholarly papers on scandal or parts of the scandal. There is "Wounded Lions," a retired PSU professor who writes on sports history.

Smith's book is good but is mostly concerned with Penn State's relationship with sports throughout its history and the scandal is only a small part of it. Most of his information on the scandal is from other sources.

Smith is also a Sandusky supporter who wants a retrial.

There has not been any serious research into the scandal since the Freeh Report in 2012. Everything since then has, in one form or the other, simply been arguing or analyzing information already out there. Spanier's trial presented no evidence that hadn't been introduced in filings years earlier.

 

[Ann99]

Part of it is quoted about a page back.

Thanks. I missed that.

 

[Betty P]

Smith's book is good but is mostly concerned with Penn State's relationship with sports throughout its history and the scandal is only a small part of it. Most of his information on the scandal is from other sources.

Smith is also a Sandusky supporter who wants a retrial.

There has not been any serious research into the scandal since the Freeh Report in 2012. Everything since then has, in one form or the other, simply been arguing or analyzing information already out there. Spanier's trial presented no evidence that hadn't been introduced in filings years earlier.

Tell me you're joking, please. Are there really people out there who think Sandusky needs a retrial? Insane.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Smith's book is good but is mostly concerned with Penn State's relationship with sports throughout its history and the scandal is only a small part of it. Most of his information on the scandal is from other sources.

Smith is also a Sandusky supporter who wants a retrial.

There has not been any serious research into the scandal since the Freeh Report in 2012. Everything since then has, in one form or the other, simply been arguing or analyzing information already out there. Spanier's trial presented no evidence that hadn't been introduced in filings years earlier.

Are you sure that is the same Smith? A synopsis says "The Sandusky case was far from the first example of illegal behavior related to the football program or the university's attempts to suppress news of it." That does not sound like wanting a retrial.

Spanier's trial did put Curley and Schultz on the record that they did not call LE in 2001.

There is a lot of primary source information out there.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

Tell me you're joking, please. Are there really people out there who think Sandusky needs a retrial? Insane.

Unfortunately I am not joking.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

Are you sure that is the same Smith? A synopsis says "The Sandusky case was far from the first example of illegal behavior related to the football program or the university's attempts to suppress news of it." That does not sound like wanting a retrial.

Spanier's trial did put Curley and Schultz on the record that they did not call LE in 2001.

There is a lot of primary source information out there.

Yes. Same Smith:

Ronald A. Smith and Terry Engelder: Jerry Sandusky should be retried

Ten years ago, Joe Paterno, the Brooklyn-born winningest football coach at Penn State University, was fired at night over the telephone, five days after the Pennsylvania attorney general’s office released the presentment charging defensive coach Jerry Sandusky and Penn State administrators with...

triblive.com

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes. Same Smith:

Ronald A. Smith and Terry Engelder: Jerry Sandusky should be retried

Ten years ago, Joe Paterno, the Brooklyn-born winningest football coach at Penn State University, was fired at night over the telephone, five days after the Pennsylvania attorney general’s office released the presentment charging defensive coach Jerry Sandusky and Penn State administrators with...

triblive.com

That is interesting, especially since there was no claims of "repressed memory."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is moderately good podcast from earlier this year: The Trail Went Cold – Episode 268 – Ray Gricar – The Trail Went Cold

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am now at the same age as RFG when he disappeared, or a few weeks older. I thought that might give me some insight. I was going to say it hasn't, but it has.

1. You may look toward the end of life. Not necessarily suicide, but feeling that it is a time to move on.
2. Your past accomplishments are not that important. You don't have to to "prove yourself," at least in the field you have been working.

Just two observations on aging.

 

[Betty P]

I am now at the same age as RFG when he disappeared, or a few weeks older. I thought that might give me some insight. I was going to say it hasn't, but it has.

1. You may look toward the end of life. Not necessarily suicide, but feeling that it is a time to move on.
2. Your past accomplishments are not that important. You don't have to to "prove yourself," at least in the field you have been working.

Just two observations on aging.

Very astute observations. I don't get the feeling he was depressed. Though he had a stressful job, I also thought retirement at 60 seemed early for a guy like Ray. He seemed to be very professional and devoted to his work. He was also in good shape and liked to stay busy. I have a feeling if he retired as DA, he might have had plans to pursue other work in the future, you know, after a year or two of travel and fun.

Was he just wanting to retire from that particular job? It seemed to have some political pressure. He tried to avoid it by saying he wasn't running for higher office.

Listening to the Trace Evidence podcast, they mentioned when they checked Rays computer, it showed he had done a search for directions to Lewisburg, PA. He had been there many times before, it wasn't that far away. He wouldn't have needed to search for directions. That almost seemed like "staging" to me. JMO

Ray Gricar, a Pa. district attorney, went for a drive 17 years ago. He hasn’t been seen since

The investigation into the veteran prosecutor’s disappearance remains wide open — and colder by the day.

www.pennlive.com

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Very astute observations. I don't get the feeling he was depressed. Though he had a stressful job, I also thought retirement at 60 seemed early for a guy like Ray. He seemed to be very professional and devoted to his work. He was also in good shape and liked to stay busy. I have a feeling if he retired as DA, he might have had plans to pursue other work in the future, you know, after a year or two of travel and fun.

Was he just wanting to retire from that particular job? It seemed to have some political pressure. He tried to avoid it by saying he wasn't running for higher office.

Listening to the Trace Evidence podcast, they mentioned when they checked Rays computer, it showed he had done a search for directions to Lewisburg, PA. He had been there many times before, it wasn't that far away. He wouldn't have needed to search for directions. That almost seemed like "staging" to me. JMO

Ray Gricar, a Pa. district attorney, went for a drive 17 years ago. He hasn’t been seen since

The investigation into the veteran prosecutor’s disappearance remains wide open — and colder by the day.

www.pennlive.com

One think I asked Buehner was about RFG's retirement. Buehner had tried to persuade RFG to do disability cases, which are not labor intensive; RFG said no. RFG did not want to practice law. Had he wished to, I'm sure he could have gotten a job teaching. Penn State was 11 miles from his house and has a law school. Madeira, RFG's successor, works in the administration there. RFG did not want to do anything after retiring. He actually said that he was looking forward not to setting the alarm clock.

When the checked RFG's history, I think on his office computer, LE found the searches for directions to Lewisburg. However, that was after they spotted the car. RFG made the call on the way to Lewisburg, indicating he was heading in that direction; he parked the car where it would be eventually seen. LE did not need the search history to tell them the direction RFG was going.

 

[Betty P]

One think I asked Buehner was about RFG's retirement. Buehner had tried to persuade RFG to do disability cases, which are not labor intensive; RFG said no. RFG did not want to practice law. Had he wished to, I'm sure he could have gotten a job teaching. Penn State was 11 miles from his house and has a law school. Madeira, RFG's successor, works in the administration there. RFG did not want to do anything after retiring. He actually said that he was looking forward not to setting the alarm clock.

When the checked RFG's history, I think on his office computer, LE found the searches for directions to Lewisburg. However, that was after they spotted the car. RFG made the call on the way to Lewisburg, indicating he was heading in that direction; he parked the car where it would be eventually seen. LE did not need the search history to tell them the direction RFG was going.

I'm not sure Ray did that search on his computer at all. He wouldn't have needed to leave clues to his location on the laptop for police. His girlfriend knew where he was.

I'm not convinced he committed suicide or walked away. Witnesses stated he seemed to be waiting to meet someone that day. He scheduled the trip on the spur of the moment.

I think he was meeting someone there because he was working on a case. He was possibly meeting with people away from the office.

 

[Ozoner]

I'm not sure Ray did that search on his computer at all. He wouldn't have needed to leave clues to his location on the laptop for police. His girlfriend knew where he was.

I'm not convinced he committed suicide or walked away. Witnesses stated he seemed to be waiting to meet someone that day. He scheduled the trip on the spur of the moment.

I think he was meeting someone there because he was working on a case. He was possibly meeting with people away from the office.

If you don't think Ray did that search, then who do you think did it?

 

[Betty P]

If you don't think Ray did that search, then who do you think did it?

Whomever was trying to make his disappearance/murder look like suicide. Sorry to be vague, but I'm not sure.

Had he walked away and started a new life, with new technology and tools LE has today, he probably would have been identified/found.

The detailed descriptions of witnesses who saw him parked and walking around near the Packwood House Museum make it sound like he was waiting and looking for someone.

Street view of Packwood House Museum

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

PennLive Map of Lewisburg, PA and locations where Ray was seen and where his car was found.

Ray Gricar investigation - Google My Maps

Key locations that were part of the investigation into the disappearance of Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar.

www.google.com

Both of those witnesses, who worked for the museum, were very credible and consistent. The red Mini Cooper was a distinctive car and there weren't many around.

Some have speculated that Ray was still investigating the Jerry Sandusky case and was possibly meeting with other witnesses in that case. He handled a lot of cases over the years, though.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not sure Ray did that search on his computer at all. He wouldn't have needed to leave clues to his location on the laptop for police. His girlfriend knew where he was.

I'm not convinced he committed suicide or walked away. Witnesses stated he seemed to be waiting to meet someone that day. He scheduled the trip on the spur of the moment.

I think he was meeting someone there because he was working on a case. He was possibly meeting with people away from the office.

As I said, the search was not discovered until after the Mini. RFG was not in the office on 4/15, so the search had to occur before that.

His girlfriend knew the direction he was going, but not the destination. Since RFG used his cell phone, LE was able locate the direction he was going.

 

[Betty P]

As I said, the search was not discovered until after the Mini. RFG was not in the office on 4/15, so the search had to occur before that.

His girlfriend knew the direction he was going, but not the destination. Since RFG used his cell phone, LE was able locate the direction he was going.

Agree. Ray would not have done that search on his computer. There was no need for it. So the trick is to figure out who did the search and why.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agree. Ray would not have done that search on his computer. There was no need for it. So the trick is to figure out who did the search and why.

That is the opposite of what I said.

The computer searches were made prior to 4/15 but were not discovered until after the Mini was discovered.