Pageant Kids: A Rant

[openminded1]

And I've never seen a five year old who was actually a good dancer. Potentially, sure - but good in an objective way? Nahhh.....

Not since Shirley Temple, anyway.

I know of a 6 year old here in the US who has studied for at least 3 years. She takes classes now with the 12 and up crowd. I have never seen her dance in person, but I have seen it on video and she is amazing.

 

[wenchie]

Does anyone else here remember when a parent's goal was to raise a kid who was responsible, kind, honest, and self-sufficient - and when kids were left alone to find what THEY were really interested in (rather than being pushed and prodded into what their parent's wanted them to be interested in?).

 

[openminded1]

And I've never seen a five year old who was actually a good dancer. Potentially, sure - but good in an objective way? Nahhh.....

Not since Shirley Temple, anyway.


P.S. I think that any teacher who'll tell you they'll give your kid "serious" dance lessons at the age of two is a shyster who just wants your money.

The kids have neither the coodination or the attention span at that age. The can start to learn the rudiments, but that's about it.

Yes and 2 year olds can't read either. Yeah right. No attention span- uh huh. Not all 2 year olds are alike.

ETA: you can not push a child to be any more talented than what the child's natural ability allows for- especially at early ages. Most parents of exceptional children will tell you that the child is pulling them along, not the other way around.

 

[wenchie]

Yes and 2 year olds can't read either. Yeah right. No attention span- uh huh. Not all 2 year olds are alike.

Of course, there are always anomalies - but the average two year old isn't going to be much of a reader, or much of a dancer.

And I didn't say "no" attention span. Everyone is different, sure - but there is still a natural progression of learning, physical coordination, attention span issues that most of us are subject to.

 

[openminded1]

Of course, there are always anomalies - but the average two year old isn't going to be much of a reader, or much of a dancer.

And I didn't say "no" attention span. Everyone is different, sure - but there is still a natural progression of learning, physical coordination, attention span issues that most of us are subject to.

Sorry, I thought you were saying that *no* 2 year old could have the ability or attention span. Of course *most* 2 year olds couldn't.

 

[wenchie]

What I said was that (IMO) any dance teacher who tells you they're going to give your two year old serious dance lessons is a shyster.

 

[openminded1]

What I said was that (IMO) any dance teacher who tells you they're going to give your two year old serious dance lessons is a shyster.

Edited because I revealed too much info about a family whose child is in a program with my child and that is a big no no. Insomnia is a bad thing Just trust me that this little girl wasn't put in a "serious" dance class designed for preschoolers.

 

[dingo]

Well I agree with both of you but I thought Misty's post was regarding older children, adolescents who, at first glance, looked older than they were.

However, to be honest, I see many girls of all ages painted/dressed up to look much older than they are so somehow they must FEEL that the general concensus approves. And I think that the problem lies in this "Oh isn't that cute!" attitude. Like I said before, this society promotes this type of behaviour by and large. After all, most of them would say that they are probably just following fashion and it is adults who are designing these fashions. So how can one justify singling out a single adult for such a reaction when mainstream society inadvertently promotes it?

JMO

No MistyM was referring to JBR.....There is no excuse.

 

[julianne]

Great post!

I think, for a lot of these kids- at least the one I know, the pageants are just a snapshot of the child's life. I am sure there are parents who want their children to live up to an adult image, and I certainly do not agree with that. I'm sure their are people whose lives are consumed by these pageants, and I- personally- don't agree with that either. The pageant kid I know does get dressed up in glitzy clothes and makeup for the pageants, just as my own child does for dance recitals, but neither child is put out there and expected to act like or be seen a small adult. When the pageant or recital is over, the kids put jeans back on and do whatever it is they usually do.

True, kids need to be treated like kids- but like the kids they are- not what someone else decides a kid of a certain age should be like. I have said in previous posts that I have a unique child, and while she has some typical 5 year old interests like playing with toys and getting silly on the playground, she also has some interests not typical of a 5 year old. We are lucky enough to be able to provide her with an environment where she can be the kid she is- no more, no less. I will never forget when she was 3, we were at the library, and she was reading to me out of a book she was very excited about. A woman came by and said, "You should let her be a kid." What this woman didn't understand was that my daughter was being a kid- the kid she is. I am not a pageant mom, so I am not about to sit here in judgement of someone who says their child wants to pursue this type of activity, just as I don't want others making false assumtions when my child is pursuing interests not typical of 5 year old girls. I'm not them, I don't walk in their shoes every day.

I think the kids who would be damaged by the attitude parents take toward pageants are likely to be damaged anyway- even if the pageants did not exist. I feel really sorry for those little girls in dance that cry when they get on stage, or are too immature to follow instructions and end up wasting time of the kids who really want to be there. I don't know how to stop it, though.

Who was JonBenet really? What kind of a kid was she? I think it is very sad that the world will never know.

I agree that it is VERY sad that the world will never know the REAL JonBenet. The REAL kid, instead of a glamourized, made up version of a mini woman. I also don't agree with the whole pageant thing, and I do believe it teaches young girls the very wrong idea about self worth and values. Very often, it is the mother pushing these kids into participating in this, IMO, and it could be because the mom was herself involved in the glitzy pageants, OR it could be the exact opposite where the mom doesn't have "what it takes" to win a beauty pageant.

Every parent believes their children are unique and special. They should! ALL children ARE unique and special---I know, I have 3 very unique and very special kids!

Definately, todays media promotes the sexualization of women at every opportunity available. It is up to the parents to teach their child that their self worth should be based upon the type of person they are, and it shouldn't be based on the fact that the beauty pageant judges thought Suzy was prettier than Jane. It was posted that these girls learn how to walk the right way in these beauty pageants, and I say to that, "What is the RIGHT way for a 6 year old girl to walk??" I saw the Dr. Phil show on beauty pageants kids recently, and the girls profiled wore makeup 1/2 " thick. They looked horrible! Truly, they didn't even look human---it was both saddening and maddening. Looking at the mothers own physical appearance, it surprised me that she placed so much emphasis and importance on her little girls physical beauty.

 

[openminded1]

Every parent believes their children are unique and special. They should! ALL children ARE unique and special---I know, I have 3 very unique and very special kids!

I think you misunderstood. Yes, all kids are unique and special, but some are exceptional in a quantifiable way. Put it this way- not every kid can grow up to be an NBA star-no matter how hard he trains.

Dr. Phil show? I am sure he went and found the tackiest pageant moms he could possibly find who put thier kids in those rip-off pageants to "showcase" what pageant kids are like. He tends to sensationalize and generalize most of his topics. I also have not heard of any pageants that judge based on who is prettier than who.

 

[southcitymom]

Does anyone else here remember when a parent's goal was to raise a kid who was responsible, kind, honest, and self-sufficient - and when kids were left alone to find what THEY were really interested in (rather than being pushed and prodded into what their parent's wanted them to be interested in?).

I think this is still the goal of the vast majority of parents.

 

[julianne]

I think you misunderstood. Yes, all kids are unique and special, but some are exceptional in a quantifiable way. Put it this way- not every kid can grow up to be an NBA star-no matter how hard he trains.

Dr. Phil show? I am sure he went and found the tackiest pageant moms he could possibly find who put thier kids in those rip-off pageants to "showcase" what pageant kids are like. He tends to sensationalize and generalize most of his topics. I also have not heard of any pageants that judge based on who is prettier than who.

I DO agree that I am sure Dr. Phil did find the tackiest pageant moms, because this mom epitomized tacky! He does like to sensationalize (what TV show doesn't) but it was still pretty telling in regards to what extremes some moms will go to.

As far as pageants judging based on who is prettier---they are called Beauty Pageants for a reason. Sure, the judges might not come out and SAY that is what it's all about, but come on, realistically that is what it's all about. Not the same for talent competitions, those are based on talent.

And, no, not every kid can grow up to be an NBA star. I guess it's all how you measure that quantifiability. But I do think that every parent thinks their children are the greatest this and the greatest that---which is how it SHOULD be. I believe my kids are exceptional in more than one aspect when it comes to other kids, but those same parents of those other kids just might think the same about their own kids. Every child is exceptional, and truly a gift. Whether that is in what you call a quantifiable way, that's in the eye of the beholder--or in this case, in the eye of parents beholder, lol.

 

[Brefie]

I am sorry if I offend, but imo pageants are sick, sick, sick.

Why are we trying to teach our children to be prettier than the next child? Do we really want them to think that their worth - AT SIX YEARS OLD - depends on their looks?

I was an Irish dancer as a child, and believe me it WAS a whole lot more than a weekend thing. My parents never allowed it to get in the way of school, but - and here comes the 'healthy, normal' bit, imo, if I wanted the money to be spent, then I had to do my part. Class 4 times a week and practising at home - AFTER homework.
Sounds like a lot, and I did have to make small sacrifices, but I had a perfectly normal childhood. I was not forced to do ANYTHING, and my parents were far from stage parents, however, it was expensive and they were not going to throw money away. It boiled down to being MY CHOICE.

Another thing, when I didn't win, I didn't win. OH- FREAKIN-WELL!! Better luck next time, honey.

 

[wenchie]

What a kid appears to be good at isn't necessarily what they grow up to pursue or be successful at.

Look at all the adorable child actors who grew up to be average-to-homely adults with no dramatic acting skills. That must be a real kick in the pants.

Someone above said that their child had no bent for quantum physics - but they didn't answer when I asked how old the child was. How can you tell?

Some kids are so over-pressured and have such high expectations put on them that they don't stand a chance of ever figuring out who THEY are.

And lately I'm seeing young adults (early 20's) who have sports injuries that will plague them for the rest of their lives. That's not from playing in Little League - it's from being taught to push, push, push and win, win, win.

 

[openminded1]

I was an Irish dancer as a child, and believe me it WAS a whole lot more than a weekend thing. My parents never allowed it to get in the way of school, but - and here comes the 'healthy, normal' bit, imo, if I wanted the money to be spent, then I had to do my part. Class 4 times a week and practising at home - AFTER homework.
Sounds like a lot, and I did have to make small sacrifices, but I had a perfectly normal childhood. I was not forced to do ANYTHING, and my parents were far from stage parents, however, it was expensive and they were not going to throw money away. It boiled down to being MY CHOICE.

Another thing, when I didn't win, I didn't win. OH- FREAKIN-WELL!! Better luck next time, honey.

I do agree personally with not encouraging a young child, especially a female, to place value on beauty, but that is just my personal opinion and the way I raise my own child. Many people in this world have different values, though. Having known a child pageant participant and a former Miss NC, I can't sit in judgement of people who choose that activity.

I really wish more kids today had the experience you had. So many kids get a trophy for just showing up, or are put in activities just for play time or babysitting reasons and don't practice or otherwise put forth the effort needed. Parents in my daughter's dance class last year *bought* trophies for their kids. THAT is sick IMVVHO.

 

[Brefie]

BOUGHT TROPHIES?? Oh, goodness me!

Believe me, I saw some disturbing things when I competed, parents promising children the moon if they won, kids BAWLING if they didn't win.

I will be honest about something, when I was about 13, I competed in a competition that was out and out FIXED. One of the judges had been 'bought' and had actually broken the rules about adjudicating. The whole place knew I had been robbed of my qualifying place for a trip to the world championships in Ireland.

Anyhoo, I started crying as I felt really hard done by and my mother quietly whispered in my ear, "The next time you cry about not winning, is the last time we do this."

She understood and was very sympathetic in this instance, but she couldn't stand to see in me what she had seen in so many 'stage families'.

 

[cappuccina]

...also, openminded1, there's "dance" and there's "dance"...

The type of dance I think of for kids is either classical ballet or modern dance, or folk/ethnic dancing such as Irish or Polish dancing, for example...

None of the classical dance forms I have listed above involve young girls in in appropriate costumes shaking their "biscuits"...

Now the other type of "dance" that you were referring to, we have never been involved with; perhaps it goes along with homeschooling and brewing your own beer? I dunno...

(Parenthetically, as this is not the topic of this thread, the reason that homeschooling desparately needs to be regulated is that there are many, many unqualified parents homeschooling their kids....It gets especially problemmatic the older they get. For example, I can teach someone up through the first semester of calculus in mathematics. That means that I am now only qualified to teach a high school sophmore or junior on the AP track even though I have a graduate degree. Frankly, most of the homeschooling parents I know are far less educated than I am, and I do not feel qualified to homeschool...enough said about the obvious).

As far as kids' activities go: The notion is to have children involved in extracurricular activities that are child and age-appropriate, and are things the child likes and will make them a more well-rounded person. While agree that any activitiy can be pushed and taken too far, there are some activities in and of themselves, such as pageants that are not even child-appropriate in the first place. My kids both play stringed instruments because they want to, and do the sports they want to. However, we are not at all aggressive as sports parents, and our kids truly do it for fun. My husband and I do NOT tell our kids things like they'd better do better or else, or they need to work harder so they can get a scholarship or play for X team....We do NONE of that. Last year, my son's hockey team (he's been on the same team for three years now), voted us the most easy to deal with hockey parents precisely because of our quiet involvement, and the realistic expectations we have for our kids...

 

[openminded1]

What a kid appears to be good at isn't necessarily what they grow up to pursue or be successful at.

Look at all the adorable child actors who grew up to be average-to-homely adults with no dramatic acting skills. That must be a real kick in the pants.

Someone above said that their child had no bent for quantum physics - but they didn't answer when I asked how old the child was. How can you tell?

Some kids are so over-pressured and have such high expectations put on them that they don't stand a chance of ever figuring out who THEY are.

And lately I'm seeing young adults (early 20's) who have sports injuries that will plague them for the rest of their lives. That's not from playing in Little League - it's from being taught to push, push, push and win, win, win.

The quantum physics comment was clearly a backhanded comment because I eluded to me daughter's academic precocity. I get those all the time, it doesn't bother me. It doesn't mean my daughter is going to grow up to be any certain thing. She may decide to have children after college. I would be just as pleased with that as if she had won the Field's. Just because she may not grow up to be a cartain thing does not mean I will deny her the opportunity to be the kid she is today.

How many former child actors do you know, actually- or are you going off stories you heard secondhand? I know there are some child actors who had really warped parents. I also know some really smart kids who paid for their educations by the time they were 8 years old and are happy and successful adults.

 

[openminded1]

...also, openminded1, there's "dance" and there's "dance"...

The type of dance I think of for kids is either classical ballet or modern dance, or folk/ethnic dancing such as Irish or Polish dancing, for example...

None of the classical dance forms I have listed above involve young girls in in appropriate costumes shaking their "biscuits"...

Now the other type of "dance" that you were referring to, we have never been involved with; perhaps it goes along with homeschooling and brewing your own beer? I dunno...

(Parenthetically, as this is not the topic of this thread, the reason that homeschooling desparately needs to be regulated is that there are many, many unqualified parents homeschooling their kids....It gets especially problemmatic the older they get. For example, I can teach someone up through the first semester of calculus in mathematics. That means that I am now only qualified to teach a high school sophmore or junior on the AP track even though I have a graduate degree. Frankly, most of the homeschooling parents I know are far less educated than I am, and I do not feel qualified to homeschool...enough said about the obvious).

As far as kids' activities go: The notion is to have children involved in extracurricular activities that are child and age-appropriate, and are things the child likes and will make them a more well-rounded person. While agree that any activitiy can be pushed and taken too far, there are some activities in and of themselves, such as pageants that are not even child-appropriate in the first place. My kids both play stringed instruments because they want to, and do the sports they want to. However, we are not at all aggressive as sports parents, and our kids truly do it for fun. My husband and I do NOT tell our kids things like they'd better do better or else, or they need to work harder so they can get a scholarship or play for X team....We do NONE of that. Last year, my son's hockey team (he's been on the same team for three years now), voted us the most easy to deal with hockey parents precisely because of our quiet involvement, and the realistic expectations we have for our kids...

You know so little about homeschooling. I suppose Stanford University is not qualified to teach my daughter math. I guess community college is not "age appropriate" in your opinion, so that doesn't count either. ROFL

Making fun of somebody else's personal hobbies is not something I would wish to stoop to.

 

[wenchie]

How many former child actors do you know, actually- or are you going off stories you heard secondhand? I know there are some child actors who had really warped parents. I also know some really smart kids who paid for their educations by the time they were 8 years old and are happy and successful adults.

Heard secondhand? No way - I've heard it out of their own mouths (how hard it was, and how hard it was to accept not being "cute" any more, or the center of attention).

And then, of course - there are the many who are dead from drug overdoses, unemployed, generally messed up, and unable to deal with adult obscurity.

The ones who get a good education and go on to have successful, happy lives are the exceptions - not the rule.