Pageant/showbiz moms show?

[Cherokee]

... I really don't see it any differently than my husband/I spending thousands of dollars over the years for our sons to have private batting lessons, attend baseball camps, basketball camps, football clinics, etc... We allowed those things because our sons had those interests, and because they and we wanted them to be the best. Did it make them the best? Not always. They aren't professional athletes nor did they ever win any money to repay us for all we spent. It was a family-thing~~something to be involved in as a family, something to rally around, something to help build their self esteem, something to spend all the extra money we had that we needed to get rid of (NOT) LOL.

Nehemiah, my friend, I understand what you are saying, but there IS a difference between pageantry as a hobby and sports as a hobby (or anything else). Pageantry is based on HOW YOU LOOK, not on on well you play or any real innate ability.

Yeah sure, there's a "talent" portion thrown in to try to make the pageants more palatable ... but everyone knows it's a minor part that doesn't really mean anything. Have you ever seen a homely contestant with superb talent win a pageant?

Pageants reward the current notion of exterior beauty. Women, girls, toddlers, even babies are awarded status as a result of inherited (and then enhanced) physical features. What could be more wrong than that? It is rewarding a person for something purely superficial.

"Beauty" pageants are toxic. They are based on a principle that does damage to the human psyche ... that how you look is a basis for self-worth. It is the same poison we are fed by Hollywood. All the emphasis is on the outer person, not the inner self.

Pageants do not build true self-esteem; rather, they tear it down and substitute a false security (and emphasis) in outward appearance. They are not a harmless, little hobby nor even a true competition of skill as in sports. Many things may be culturally acceptable, but that does not make them right, or even worthwhile.

We are more than the outward appearance of our physical bodies. We are more than this clay shell. We need to emphasize the sacred worth of every individual, not pander to the false illusion of exterior beauty.



IMO

 

[BrotherMoon]

The extravagant costumes were not designed or chosen by a six year old.

The poses and gestures were not characteristic of a child.

The expressions in the still photos, such as the one that used to be on the home page of this forum, are suggestive of sexual knowing far beyond the capability of a child.

All of these things were "imposed" onto JonBenet by her mother.

 

[Britt]

Cherokee and BrotherMoon:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:​

And furthermore... I try to understand the "cultural" justifications for child pageantry, I really do... but IMO when a child is as obviously inappropriately sexualized as JonBenet was, the justifications don't seem much different from any other rationalization for perversion, IMO.

 

[Nehemiah]

Nehemiah, my friend, I understand what you are saying, but there IS a difference between pageantry as a hobby and sports as a hobby (or anything else). Pageantry is based on HOW YOU LOOK, not on on well you play or any real innate ability.

Yeah sure, there's a "talent" portion thrown in to try to make the pageants more palatable ... but everyone knows it's a minor part that doesn't really mean anything. Have you ever seen a homely contestant with superb talent win a pageant?

Pageants reward the current notion of exterior beauty. Women, girls, toddlers, even babies are awarded status as a result of inherited (and then enhanced) physical features. What could be more wrong than that? It is rewarding a person for something purely superficial.

"Beauty" pageants are toxic. They are based on a principle that does damage to the human psyche ... that how you look is a basis for self-worth. It is the same poison we are fed by Hollywood. All the emphasis is on the outer person, not the inner self.

Pageants do not build true self-esteem; rather, they tear it down and substitute a false security (and emphasis) in outward appearance. They are not a harmless, little hobby nor even a true competition of skill as in sports. Many things may be culturally acceptable, but that does not make them right, or even worthwhile.

We are more than the outward appearance of our physical bodies. We are more than this clay shell. We need to emphasize the sacred worth of every individual, not pander to the false illusion of exterior beauty.



IMO

Cherokee,
Thanks for responding. I totally agree with you. I honestly do. I am just saying that in the South, right or wrong, pageantry is looked at as more normalized behavior. It is viewed as a hobby. There are surely parents who take it to the extreme. There are those who say that kids entering into competitive sports is wrong and they do not allow scorekeeping. These same people also say that it is wrong to put so much emphasis on athleticism as opposed to brains. I know that there can be cases made for most anything that we do, or that we allow our kids to do. I don't know what Patsy's true motivation was for pageantry. I can have an opinion about it myself, but I still do not know her heart, just as she doesn't know mine, or what my motivation was/is for spending big bucks on athletics.

Cultural differences are very pronounced, whether I like that or not. I posted last fall about my trip to Boulder. In all honesty, I looked like a hooker there. My clothes were totally NOT what was the norm there. People actually stared at me, and I just wore clothes that I wear to work everyday here. A few weeks later I had a reporter come to my town from NYC to interview me for an article. She was dressed totally "inappropriately" for our area. I even had some people comment to me about how she was attired. I say "inappropriately" because her clothes were what was noticed about her~~not her heart, or her communication skills, or her writing abilities, etc...I know this is a little off topic about pageantry, but culturally speaking, the South is different from other areas of the country. (Perhaps the North is very different from the West, East, etc...I don't know)

As far as emphasizing the worth of every individual, and not beauty....I hear you. I am with you! And I will even admit....I have been a pageant judge, several times in my lifetime. :innocent:

IMO

 

[Jayelles]

Cherokee,

Cultural differences are very pronounced, whether I like that or not. I posted last fall about my trip to Boulder. In all honesty, I looked like a hooker there.

In Scotland a hooker is a rugby player. I had imagined you quite differently ;-)

 

[Britt]

All of these things were "imposed" onto JonBenet by her mother.

IMO this quote from PMPT - a conversation about the pageants between Judith Phillips and Patsy's mother Nedra - is very revealing:

"And what if JonBenet isn't willing?" I asked. "What if she says, 'I'm not going to do it!' How would you respond to that"?

"Oh, Judith, we would never consider her saying no. We would tell JonBenet, 'You must do it. You will be a Miss Pageant.'"

PMPT, p.249, paperback.

 

[Nehemiah]

In Scotland a hooker is a rugby player. I had imagined you quite differently ;-)

You imagined me as not being a rugby player, or as not being a prostitute? LOL

 

[Toth]

I do not know of ANY parent who encourages their kids to play video games, much less enters them into contests, no matter what the prizes might be.

 

[Ivy]

Well, they should, Toth. I heard on CNN the other day that kids who are adept at playing video games have good eye/hand coordination and make excellent surgeons.

imo

 

[Nehemiah]

I do not know of ANY parent who encourages their kids to play video games, much less enters them into contests, no matter what the prizes might be.

Uhhh...well, I do, Toth. It seems I'm giving the South a bad name.

IMO

 

[cookie]

Pageants aren't just a "southern thing". These contests are held all over the United States. JonBenet was supposed to attend one in Hawaii right after Christmas. The biggest contests are NOT held in the south. Each and every state holds several in order to come up with their own state candidate in the Miss USA contests. They begin in the local level, go to area levels, and so on. To say that they are a southern thing just isn't correct. Unless, of course, the northern states only hold one contest to find their one contest to send to the national final. There are also many different pageants such as Miss Teen USA and so on. They occur on different levels of age all the way up.

 

[Shylock]

These contests are held all over the United States. JonBenet was supposed to attend one in Hawaii right after Christmas.

Hawaii... I guess this "pageant thing" was not just "something to do on weekends" as Patsy claimed.

I don't think this pageant obsession relates at all to normal child activities like Little League baseball. Parents get their kids into baseball or soccer for very little money, where a single pageant gown can cost big bucks. I'd like to see how many kids would be playing Little League baseball if it cost their parents thousands of dollars for the equipment to play in.

 

[cookie]

"I'd like to see how many kids would be playing Little League baseball if it cost their parents thousands of dollars for the equipment to play in."

Oh, there would certainly be some no matter what the costs. There are many goofy parents out there that just can't accept the fact that their little Johnny or Joanie might actually be in something and not be a standout when it comes to their ability. My grandson falls into that classification. He is getting private batting lessons for little league for Pete's sake and he is only seven years old. Little League baseball and other young sports like that should be strictly for their entertainment and not to further the parents ego. I have a HUGE problem with parents who want and expect their children to be the best of everything in everything they do. Simply teach them to try to DO their best and be happy with themselves, the rest is parent gratification.

 

[tipper]

Hawaii... I guess this "pageant thing" was not just "something to do on weekends" as Patsy claimed.

I don't think this pageant obsession relates at all to normal child activities like Little League baseball. Parents get their kids into baseball or soccer for very little money, where a single pageant gown can cost big bucks. I'd like to see how many kids would be playing Little League baseball if it cost their parents thousands of dollars for the equipment to play in.

My recollection is that in three years JonBenet was in 12-15 pageants.

While it's true parents can get their kids into soccer or baseball for little money, if your kid is interested in show-jumping or gymnastics or dance or ice-skating then the cost of soccer or baseball doesn't matter.

There is a spin in ice-skating called "the $50,000 spin" because that is about how much you (or your parents) will have spent to get you to that level.

Whatever the Ramseys spent on the pageants they could afford it. Nobody was working a second job or taking out loans so she could compete. JonBenet and her mother enjoyed doing them as obviously, a lot of other little girls did too.

 

[Shylock]

JonBenet and her mother enjoyed doing them as obviously, a lot of other little girls did too.

We don't know what JonBenet enjoyed, do we? For all we know JonBenet had told Patsy that she didn't want to do pageants any more which is what lead to Patsy's rage that night. She refused to wear the same shirt that day so she looked like Patsy, maybe she was tired of pageants as well.

Patsy even admits to an unhealthy obsession with pageants in her deposition:

Q. I just have one other question. Did you at any time tell anyone that JonBenet was going to be the next Ms. America, or that she was being groomed to be the next Ms. America?

A. Well, she could hardly be the next Ms. America since she was only six years old.

Q. I understand. But at the time you were taking her to the beauty pageants, did you at any time say to anybody that you were grooming JonBenet to be the next Ms. America?

A. I don't know. I may have said something like that.

Grooming a 6-year old to be Ms. America? - That pretty much tells us what a sicko Patsy really is.

 

[tipper]

We don't know what JonBenet enjoyed, do we? For all we know JonBenet had told Patsy that she didn't want to do pageants any more which is what lead to Patsy's rage that night. She refused to wear the same shirt that day so she looked like Patsy, maybe she was tired of pageants as well.

Patsy even admits to an unhealthy obsession with pageants in her deposition:

Q. I just have one other question. Did you at any time tell anyone that JonBenet was going to be the next Ms. America, or that she was being groomed to be the next Ms. America?

A. Well, she could hardly be the next Ms. America since she was only six years old.

Q. I understand. But at the time you were taking her to the beauty pageants, did you at any time say to anybody that you were grooming JonBenet to be the next Ms. America?

A. I don't know. I may have said something like that.

Grooming a 6-year old to be Ms. America? - That pretty much tells us what a sicko Patsy really is.

Actually it doesn't tell me anything without a context and voice. Did she say it with a fervid tone and a fire in her eye or was she laughing about it? Am I a "sicko" because I once said to my daughter I expected her to split her Nobel Prize earnings as payment for being an overnight chaperone at the Biology Club sleepover? Based on other things she has said I think Patsy has a somewhat wry sense of humor. Unfortunately every word she has spoken gets treated as though she was utterly serious when she said it.

 

[Shylock]

Unfortunately every word she has spoken gets treated as though she was utterly serious when she said it.

Seeing it was in a deposition where she was essentially on trial in a civil court for her daughter's murder, I would think the woman might have maintained a "serious" attitude.

Am I a "sicko" because I once said to my daughter I expected her to split her Nobel Prize earnings as payment for being an overnight chaperone at the Biology Club sleepover?

Hardly Tipper. But maybe you should be considered a "sicko" if you don't see the difference between Patsy's actions and your daughter's Biology Club sleepover...

 

[tipper]

Seeing it was in a deposition where she was essentially on trial in a civil court for her daughter's murder, I would think the woman might have maintained a "serious" attitude.

...

No, you missed the point. The "grooming" statement wasn't made during the deposition. It was a prior comment to some unnamed person.

 

[Trino]

I wonder how Burke has been "groomed" since JB's death. Is he into sports? Chess?

 

[BrotherMoon]

I wonder how Burke has been "groomed" since JB's death. Is he into sports? Chess?

BINGO! Groomed for Church I'll bet.