Parental rights vs. child safety (Was there any reason Josh was awarded visits?)

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"Disturbing images were also found in the packet of documents. One was reportedly drawn by Josh Powell when he was a teenager. It's entitled "Daddy Mormon Basher," and shows a man wielding an axe, with a devil a surrounded by people.

Another image titled "Don't Play With Me" was allegedly drawn by one of the Powell boys recently. It's unclear who or what is depicted in the picture, but it's clearly sinister in nature."

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...details-in-Powell/yWABHuHaaEGLEzXuPE_Uwg.cspx

From these evaluations, Dr. Manley diagnosed Josh Powell with some personality disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder and adjustment disorder with anxiety and saying his stability as “not secure”.

Why were those boys allowed to visit the sperm donor whose stability was not secure?

I could see the evil in josh's eyes the day of the last hearing when he was denied custody and ordered to undergo a LDT and psychosexual exam. Many fellow sleuths saw it and voiced their concerns as well.

Personally, would like to see a cooling off period when a parent is denied custody and have visitation suspended for a week or two. When/if visitation is reinstated, it should be in a controlled environment. It makes no sense to endanger the lives of children and supervisors of visitation by meeting in a personal space/staged home of the parent being investigated.

lastly, if a Dr lists a parent's stability as 'not secure', the children should not be subjected to visits with a parent who is unstable!

Oh and one other thing, we need to fight for grandparents rights in all states!

MOO

rant over

(the more I read these documents, the angrier I become grrr!)
 
I have contended this from the beginning. The Cox's Atty Downing is now going public with his frustration at the Utah LE, who didn't disclose pertinent info until the 11th hour.

"Still, they don’t want to talk about it. Interviewing West Valley City Police Sgt. Mike Powell is a bit like playing a 19th-century parlor game—parsing and winking all the while. Police have become masters at saying a bunch of nothing about this case".

http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article-436-15582-this-article-is-horrible-yes-the-wvcpd-bungle.html
 
Finally. I'm telling you, if I were family, I would have hired private investigators by now to investigate the cops and the DA on this case. Now, the boys are dead and there is little to lose. This is the same DA who abolished the domestic violence crimes unit. What are Utah media giving him a pass.
 
STILL outraged by this case. But I want to keep the discussion going because it's the only thing that has a prayer of changing any of this...
 
I honestly believe the Utah LE placed these children in danger by not disclosing the information to Washington Authorities in a timely manner. It was more important for WVPD to keep their "investigation" so close to the vest, that the children died as a direct result of Utah not sharing information about the risk of harm to the children. There are mandated reporting laws for information sharing if it involves allegations of child abuse/neglect - clearly what they did share was at the 11th hour. Washington had been moving toward reuniting the boys with Josh in his "sham" home because they didn't have enough information to prove the children were in danger. That evidence had been on his computers all along - held in secrecy by Utah LE. By the time Washington CPS received the info about the cartoon *advertiser censored*, they were way down the line towards reunification. Now that info was some 2-3 years old . . . it could be argued that the children were no longer at risk as that info was not currently a presenting issue of harm. (not that I agree)

OK . . . sorry but I just really needed to rant! I cannot believe how frustrated the Cox Family has been over all this time. I am just beginning to understand how the children have been failed from the very beginning and the Grandparents had no rights to stand up for the children. Josh's rights trumped them all!
 
I honestly believe the Utah LE placed these children in danger by not disclosing the information to Washington Authorities in a timely manner. It was more important for WVPD to keep their "investigation" so close to the vest, that the children died as a direct result of Utah not sharing information about the risk of harm to the children. There are mandated reporting laws for information sharing if it involves allegations of child abuse/neglect - clearly what they did share was at the 11th hour. Washington had been moving toward reuniting the boys with Josh in his "sham" home because they didn't have enough information to prove the children were in danger. That evidence had been on his computers all along - held in secrecy by Utah LE. By the time Washington CPS received the info about the cartoon *advertiser censored*, they were way down the line towards reunification. Now that info was some 2-3 years old . . . it could be argued that the children were no longer at risk as that info was not currently a presenting issue of harm. (not that I agree)

OK . . . sorry but I just really needed to rant! I cannot believe how frustrated the Cox Family has been over all this time. I am just beginning to understand how the children have been failed from the very beginning and the Grandparents had no rights to stand up for the children. Josh's rights trumped them all!

I agree with you. IMO those children were at risk the minute Susan disappeared. They were further placed at risk when Josh was allowed to leave the state just a few weeks later and move in with his crazy family. Those children never stood a chance of a normal life as long as they were in his control. Very very sad on so many levels.
 
I agree with you. IMO those children were at risk the minute Susan disappeared. They were further placed at risk when Josh was allowed to leave the state just a few weeks later and move in with his crazy family. Those children never stood a chance of a normal life as long as they were in his control. Very very sad on so many levels.

So...I hate new laws and I hate the government dipping into every little bit of our souls. HOWEVER, FOR THE CHILDREN, this needs to be changed. When a child is involved the rights of a "suspect", "person of interest", or "custodial parent with suspected questionable issues" needs to go by the wayside. This will take a Constitutional Amendment. Amendments have happened before and they can happen again. And for the children, this must happen.
 
I agree wenwe4! The fact that WVPD had a very valid excuse to get those *advertiser censored* pictures to CPS and get those kids away from Josh 2 years ago really gets to me. They could have pulled those kids in the very beginning. CPS could have been talking to them about the *advertiser censored* and checking into any possible abuse, and the kids would have likely talked about Mommy disappearing. They lost HUGE opportunities to talk to those kids before they were brainwashed by the horrible Powell men. I normally do not like to bash LE, but they really blew this case from the beginning.
 
I agree wenwe4! The fact that WVPD had a very valid excuse to get those *advertiser censored* pictures to CPS and get those kids away from Josh 2 years ago really gets to me. They could have pulled those kids in the very beginning. CPS could have been talking to them about the *advertiser censored* and checking into any possible abuse, and the kids would have likely talked about Mommy disappearing. They lost HUGE opportunities to talk to those kids before they were brainwashed by the horrible Powell men. I normally do not like to bash LE, but they really blew this case from the beginning.

Was this a jurisdictional issue? Wasn't the FBI involved? The moment josh went to sp's it should have become multi-jurisdictional. In the very beginning, when josh's lawyer, IIRC, got a suppression order, there was no information available; how deep did that sealing of evidence go? Why was not the pertinent information shared with WA; they could have gotten a running start rather than building their own case. The worst part of this is that Charlie and Braden paid the price for jurisdictional issues between agencies.

The only remedy left now is to move for passage of legislation to remove the obstacles the Coxes faced. I have said for years that there should be a Children's Rights Amendment but we can't even pass the Equal Rights Amendment in this country and the safety of children, regarding *advertiser censored* and abuse, has not gotten any better. How much better would the Children's Rights Amendment fare? One thing that is certain is it is up to all of us to hold our politicians' feet to the fire and demand better for children. No child should be a sexual object for anyone and no child should be subjected to abuse.
 
Concentric, I agree. Concerted efforts in Washington State CPS system have been made toward no longer punishing the victim. Historically, the Perp. of DV (ie: Mom's Paramour) would be asked to move out of the home and the Victim (ie: Mom) would be told she would be charged with child neglect if she allowed the Perp. access to her children.

I have seen some of those shelter's myself and it makes me sick to see boys over the age of 12 being forced to stay alone at the Men's shelter, while their Mother and siblings are allowed to stay at the "Women's shelter".

Requirements to stay in the DV shelters are often extremely restrictive and most people do not do well living in structured housing. Often families are so bruised, broken, and fearful they are simple shells of their former selves. Most arrive feeling hopeless, helpless and doomed. They have gone from one situation where they had no control over any part of their lives to yet another one with different rules. Not sure that is the best way to empower victims to take back control.

Again, balance between structure needed to keep multiple families living together in one location to allowing victims to regain the very things they were deprived of . . . (ie: freedom to make decisions on their own, stabilizing and nurturing themselves and their children, etc).

BBM There is a reason for restrictions, security. I have seen this issue from both sides, as someone being protected and someone working in the environment. In the course of six months, while I was healing from injuries, I was in 4 different shelters for security reasons. One was on the reservation and the other three off, in neighborhood settings. Shelters vary from places with CCTV to one where my ex could have very easily walked in the back door. During the night there was no one at the shelter but me; the back door had glass windows and there was no security fence. I have seen a woman try to kill her 4 children while in the shelter, plus she pried open the office door and the filing cabinet holding our records. The cold medicine she overdosed her children with was in a locked cabinet, in a locked bathroom in a locked office. She also pried the numbers off of the doors of the individual rooms and threw away all of the food in the kitchen, freezer and refrigerator. One woman smuggled different men in her room before she was asked to leave. Restrictions provide an environment that is safe for all.

As josh proved with his actions; Domestic Violence settings are volatile and bringing a woman or a family into a shelter doesn't 100% insure safety. Two of the shelters that I was in had panic buttons in the room that went directly to the police department; there were several times when we were all ushered into a safe room while a situation was diffused. Domestic Violence shelters are a place to protect people, they are not a hotel. Family suites, for those with children, particularly older boys, is the way to go; each has a little kitchenette and bath. It is not necessary to remove restrictions from shelters but rather to provide more funding and more security.

VAWA, the Violence Against Women Act is the best piece of legislation to have been passed; the results are measurable and immediate. There are so many options and avenues opened to those who are ensnared in DV. There has to be a structure and protocol just to facilitate the necessary work. From providing emergency housing, food and medical, in the beginning, to legal services, finding housing and follow-up care as people leave the shelter there are always details that must be addressed. Then there is the unknown; will the 'victim' [I hate that word] go back, will the perp get violent and will the children be safe? josh proved that there is never safety in dv. I know from my own experience from traveling through 5 different states that there is never safety but thankfully there is a place to go to have some sense of fear that is ratcheted down, for the moment. So I have to wash dishes, clean bathrooms/kitchens, not go out during certain hours unless it is for work, have to enter through a key coded door and other restrictions; I know that I will at least have a few hours of desperately needed sleep.

ALL of the above is ONLY MY OPINION; I've gotten the t-shirt on this issue and the scars, as well, BUT I am still standing and very much grateful for the shelters that kept me safe.

I wish that Susan and her boys had gotten to a shelter; they would have had a better chance against the evil of jp/sp, they would probably be alive today. josh would never have been able to wreak the havoc he did finally do. He would most likely have been in jail because Susan and the boys would have been in an environment where there was immediate help legally. We know that Susan was a strong woman, josh was just too devious and he was abetted by his father. The question of josh's parental rights would have been a moot point, he would have been known for who he was. He would have to address and answer for his wrongdoing before contact with the children. There is a reason why sp and subsequently jp went to WA; they are too lax and both powells knew this.
 
Jacie, thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I am so sorry for what you have had to endure. You made it out through utilizing the resources available and you kept going. You finally were able to reach a place of hope and your visions for the future began to take shape. What an accomplishment and your experiences surely can benefit many others. I so agree with all that you have said and I truly understand the need for balance for safety as well as offering victim families the very thing they haven't had . . . the opportunity to make decisions for themselves and the freedom to live as they wish to (instead of being told how to).
 
Jacie, thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I am so sorry for what you have had to endure. You made it out through utilizing the resources available and you kept going. You finally were able to reach a place of hope and your visions for the future began to take shape. What an accomplishment and your experiences surely can benefit many others. I so agree with all that you have said and I truly understand the need for balance for safety as well as offering victim families the very thing they haven't had . . . the opportunity to make decisions for themselves and the freedom to live as they wish to (instead of being told how to).

Thank you. The single MOST effective tool to fight DV is education. It breaks my heart that Susan and her boys could not get to a shelter. I do believe that josh was poisoning her and keeping her constantly 'on alert'. When I read that Susan had to call a friend to borrow 2 hot dogs to feed her boys, it hurt. She did her best and sadly gave her all in that battle, so did her boys. I truly hope that in October, Domestic Violence Month, Susan and her 2 boys are depicted with their red cutouts, either in SLC or Puyallup. http://www.silentwitness.net/

Domestic Violence is not pretty, nor is it socially acceptable and it CAN NOT be hidden.


1-800-799-SAFE is the hotline number; you may not need it but you may know someone who will.

February is National Teen Dating Violence and Awareness Month.
http://www.thehotline.org/
 
Thank you. The single MOST effective tool to fight DV is education. It breaks my heart that Susan and her boys could not get to a shelter. I do believe that josh was poisoning her and keeping her constantly 'on alert'. When I read that Susan had to call a friend to borrow 2 hot dogs to feed her boys, it hurt. She did her best and sadly gave her all in that battle, so did her boys. I truly hope that in October, Domestic Violence Month, Susan and her 2 boys are depicted with their red cutouts, either in SLC or Puyallup. http://www.silentwitness.net/

Domestic Violence is not pretty, nor is it socially acceptable and it CAN NOT be hidden.


1-800-799-SAFE is the hotline number; you may not need it but you may know someone who will.

February is National Teen Dating Violence and Awareness Month.
http://www.thehotline.org/

April is Child Abuse Prevention month. I hope red cutouts are put in both cities in October, as the families touched the hearts of many in both communities. I will tie a blue ribbon around my tree for April as well. Child abuse/neglect issues co-occur with issues of DV in nearly 50% of families - I would love to see more collaboration between these two disciplines/agency professionals and work towards holding the Perp accountable. Instead we focus on getting the family safely away from the Perp . . . somehow the most disruptive option is the only way but it is sick the devastation we as a society allow the perps to leave in their path.
 
April is Child Abuse Prevention month. I hope red cutouts are put in both cities in October, as the families touched the hearts of many in both communities. I will tie a blue ribbon around my tree for April as well. Child abuse/neglect issues co-occur with issues of DV in nearly 50% of families - I would love to see more collaboration between these two disciplines/agency professionals and work towards holding the Perp accountable. Instead we focus on getting the family safely away from the Perp . . . somehow the most disruptive option is the only way but it is sick the devastation we as a society allow the perps to leave in their path.

BBM It is CPS's charge to protect children and yet we hear 'too heavy caseloads','children fall through the cracks' and other comments when there is a tragedy. Whatever is done in Charlie and Braden's names is done in memorium, it is time to be proactive and not reactive. I still and will always believe there is need for a Children's Rights Amendment. There should be no excuse for not protecting children; sadly, that is what we hear too often now.
 
BBM It is CPS's charge to protect children and yet we hear 'too heavy caseloads','children fall through the cracks' and other comments when there is a tragedy. Whatever is done in Charlie and Braden's names is done in memorium, it is time to be proactive and not reactive. I still and will always believe there is need for a Children's Rights Amendment. There should be no excuse for not protecting children; sadly, that is what we hear too often now.

Jacie,

Where can we find out more about the Children's Rights Amendment? And how do we go about expressing our support for it?

Child murderers HIDE behind the United States Constitution. I do not believe that the people who wrote it had that intention.

In my humble opinion, this should be the change that Charlie and Braden bring to this country.
 
Jacie,

Where can we find out more about the Children's Rights Amendment? And how do we go about expressing our support for it?

Child murderers HIDE behind the United States Constitution. I do not believe that the people who wrote it had that intention.

In my humble opinion, this should be the change that Charlie and Braden bring to this country.

Sadly, there isn't one, at this time; the need for one is immense. IMHO it is past time for this Amendment and time for politicians to focus on what is important, concerning this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_rights_movement

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_children%27s_rights_in_the_United_States"]Timeline of young people's rights in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Jacie,

Where can we find out more about the Children's Rights Amendment? And how do we go about expressing our support for it?

Child murderers HIDE behind the United States Constitution. I do not believe that the people who wrote it had that intention.

In my humble opinion, this should be the change that Charlie and Braden bring to this country.

Be sure to research this carefully before supporting it.
 

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