Patsy and the 911 Call

[Jayelles]

There is no gain for the Ramseys whether Burke is awake and in bed or asleep and in bed.

I agree. So why lie?

This is just one lie of many. Do you think John Ramsey didn't deliberately lie to his first wife about his wherabouts when he was having an affair?

Do you think he didn't deliberately lie about the reasons for his divorce when he met patsy?

Do you think they didn't deliberately lie about donating a cheque to the Makahaki (sp) Island Children's camp on Larry King Live when Tricia asked them about the Jonbenet Foundation?

Were these all simply misunderstandings? How high is that Ramsey pedestal?

 

[why_nutt]

The wholesale use of the word lie by the anti-Ramsey posters is what make the discussion go round and round. A lie is a deliberate untruth with the intent to deceive for one gain or another. There is no gain for the Ramseys whether Burke is awake and in bed or asleep and in bed.

Oh yes there most certainly is gain for the Ramseys in keeping Burke asleep and in bed as a public position. If Burke was awake, and the Ramseys acknowledged he was, then they are forced to explain in detail why they thought the best thing for him to be would be to shiver frightened and alone in bed while some unknown intruder (who might actually be hiding in Burke's closet for all the Ramseys knew) stalks the family, and John and Patsy indulge in their most selfish tendencies and become the king and queen of "ME ME ME, HELP MEEEEEEE!" while JonBenet, who is the person needing help the most, gets to be a somewhat annoying plot device simply to explain why her parents should be indulged in their every tiny whim.

With Burke awake during the 911 call, John and Patsy become Very Bad Parents Indeed because at least one of them would have the duty to devote one hundred percent of their time to soothing his frazzled nerves and protecting him. With Burke asleep, John and Patsy become Innocent Victims Of A Crime, who by coincidence happen to have a son who might as well not exist for all they appeared to care about his welfare during the worst moments of the morning.

 

[Brefie]

Great point, why nutt!! I had never thought of that before but it makes perfect sense.

 

[Mama-cita]

No, I polygraph is not a proven 100% accurate test. Without a lawyer maybe MR. Klaas was unaware of this fact.

True. But she might accept it from Santa.
Without a theory to defend myself I can find a few "reasonalbe" theories. Although I really haven't worked the "pineapple" thing out myself.

The killer/s "snacked" themselves at the table waiting for the R's to fall asleep. Wearing gloves so not to leave prints anywhere.
Dressed as Santa one of them goes to get JBR from upstairs bringing the pineapple as a gift of sorts.
JBR wakes up to go with santa and accepts a few pineapple chunks on the way down to see her present.

I wonder just how much pineapple there was in her system? I don't think an amount was ever noted?

Santa suits would tend to leave behind some rather obvious red and white fuzzy fibers. If some stranger were to wear one, while snacking at their breakfast nook (pretty risky in itself, "Hey Bert, let's help ourselves to some biscuits and tea before we rape and murder the little girl") even Mr. Magoo would be able to spot the little fibers someone sitting in a Santa suit would have left behind...

 

[narlacat]

If we are talking about Santa Bill.......he didn't do it. He was way too old and frail to have carried out what happened to JonBenet.

 

[BlueCrab]

Whether Burke was asleep or was faking sleep at 5:52 AM during the 911 call is irrelevant.

What's important is the enhanced 911 tape proved Burke was DOWNSTAIRS talking to his parents during the 911 call. All three Ramseys lied when they testified Burke never left his bedroom until 7:00 AM.

 

[Camper]

IF I am recalling correctly, the RAMSEYS admitted in the Enquirer that Burke was awake, AFTER they had collected all of the $$$$$$$$$$ settlements from Woods and Co. lawsuits on Burkes innocent behalf, right er 'rong? So goes the law and its little cracks in the pottery. Hmmm.

IF he is sleepin' he is innocent, IF he is awake he isn't but it donut matter no more do it,?, cuz they alredi got the money and left the building., just like Elvis.

The Ramseys left the building but they took that olde umbrella with em, and it is still raining on them.

I wonder how life would be IF IF instead of getting Mable, Frank, Henry, Joe Blow, etc., for the Grand Jury pool, we would have retired honorable detectives from all over the world to sit on the Grand Jury. Bet they could detect a smoke and mirror routine. Perhaps besides our national disaster readiness revamping, we should revamp our Grand Jury Selection process.

Ignorance on the world of crime, and criminal behaviors is indeed a handicap for folks who have never been involved in anything worse that the dog eating their childrens homework, these good and honorable folks might not be the best source for finding the truth in murder and mayhem situations.


------------------------------------

8 lbs. 9 ounces, red hair, very smart baby boy has arrived on our planet.

 

[tipper]

Yes I have a theory, but I'm not allowed to post it here!

[...]

Why aren't you allowed to post it here?

 

[Brefie]

Great post Camper - and congrats on the wee one!!

 

[Brefie]

Why aren't you allowed to post it here?

I wondered that too. Now I am VERY intrigued. Any chance of us reading it anywhere??

 

[narlacat]

Maybe if Jayelle's is not too busy she might be able to pm us with her theory. I am intrigued too!

 

[deanws]

No Zman. The question has been answered...over and over again. Some people keep on asking it though - as though a period of non-discussion would nullify the facts.

The NE interview WAS in the Ramseys' own words. They changed their story and admitted that Burke had been awake.

For years we have seen evidence of Ramsey lies - we have hashed them out on the forums over ..... and over again. Posted the proof, references and sources. Still, despite the evidence (most recently on national television) the inevitable poster will come along and say "Show me where they lied".

And when you DO show them, they either ignore your link....or just start on another thread asking for the same proof. I just ignore them now.

 

[mjak]

I have always found this earlier 911 call curious. Does anyone know
anything about the circumstances of this earlier 911 call? Could this call
actually be evidence that something was amiss in this household? I find it
intresting that this call was made when the same group of friends who the Ramseys saw the night JBR was murdered were present.

mjak

 

[Zman]

I have always found this earlier 911 call curious. Does anyone know
anything about the circumstances of this earlier 911 call? Could this call
actually be evidence that something was amiss in this household? I find it
intresting that this call was made when the same group of friends who the Ramseys saw the night JBR was murdered were present.

mjak

Could it be that a certain close friend decided to make a first move on a certain little girl and was threated with a 911 call by a certain close relative who was not about to start that stuff again?

 

[solidarity]

Why would a six year old relate "feeling pretty" to unwanted sexual contact?
I would think they would only relate the word "pretty" to apperance.

Unless her molestor constantly made reference to how "pretty" she was...she would definitely associate both then.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Unless her molestor constantly made reference to how "pretty" she was...she would definitely associate both then.

That would have made JonBenet want to be considered less pretty, therefore less desirable to the molester. If that was the case, then I doubt she would have been crying about the molester thinking she's less pretty. That's part of the reason children regress in toilet behavior when being molested...soiling themselves comes from feelings of being out of control of self and unconsciously wanting to be less appealing to the abuser.

Wait a minute...did Zman just acknowledge that JonBenet might have been molested? Wow.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Something that happened during the 911 call recently made me wonder. About halfway through the call, the following exchange took place between Patsy and the dispatcher:

911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please

One would assume that Patsy read "S.B.T.C. Victory" right off the ransom note and had it while she was on the phone. However, there is a problem with this assumption. In numerous interviews (see the depos and interviews over at acandyrose), both Patsy and John talked about how while Patsy was calling 911, John was on the floor reading the note which was spread out on the floor. Therefore, my question becomes, how did Patsy get S.B.T.C. Victory from the ransom note? Here are the explanations I can think of, and my thoughts following each...

(1) She remembered what the note said...Patsy has also suggested that prior to making the 911 call, she did not read the ransom note carefully and did not read it in its entirety. I can't imagine she would have remembered this.

(2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

(3) John wasn't actually on the floor reading the note at this time...This seems to be the most innocent explanation, but why would the Ramseys make up this somewhat odd detail if it weren't true?

(4) Patsy was well aware of the note's detailed contents because she either wrote it or had seen it for much longer than she suggested in her interviews...to me, this explanation is the most logical.

Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?

 

[BlueCrab]

Something that happened during the 911 call recently made me wonder. About halfway through the call, the following exchange took place between Patsy and the dispatcher:



One would assume that Patsy read "S.B.T.C. Victory" right off the ransom note and had it while she was on the phone. However, there is a problem with this assumption. In numerous interviews (see the depos and interviews over at acandyrose), both Patsy and John talked about how while Patsy was calling 911, John was on the floor reading the note which was spread out on the floor. Therefore, my question becomes, how did Patsy get S.B.T.C. Victory from the ransom note? Here are the explanations I can think of, and my thoughts following each...

(1) She remembered what the note said...Patsy has also suggested that prior to making the 911 call, she did not read the ransom note carefully and did not read it in its entirety. I can't imagine she would have remembered this.

(2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

(3) John wasn't actually on the floor reading the note at this time...This seems to be the most innocent explanation, but why would the Ramseys make up this somewhat odd detail if it weren't true?

(4) Patsy was well aware of the note's detailed contents because she either wrote it or had seen it for much longer than she suggested in her interviews...to me, this explanation is the most logical.

Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?

Voice of Reason,

In the interviews Patsy said she made the 911 call while hovering over John while John had the note spread out on the floor reading it.

 

[Nova]

Yes, Voice, it has struck many as odd. (Not conclusively incriminating, perhaps, but odd.)

 

[Voice of Reason]

Voice of Reason,

In the interviews Patsy said she made the 911 call while hovering over John while John had the note spread out on the floor reading it.

Where do you read this? If you look at the floor plans, you will see that while they were certainly close with Patsy at the kitchen phone and John in the hallway by the den, I don't think she was reading over his shoulder. Neither JR nor PR has ever suggested that this was the case to my knowledge...

1997 interviews:

TT: Patsy called 911 (inaudible).
JR: Yeah. It was, I remember she was on the phone, I was, I think that was when I was looking at the note again, which was on the floor and I was in the back hallway.

* * *

TT: Let’s move back downstairs, Patsy makes the 911 call, she talk through that on the kitchen phone?
JR: Uh-hum.
TT: Which is right around the corner from the floor that you talk about where you were reading the note?
JR: Right Uh-huh.

* * *

TT: Okay. You yelled for John. John comes down. Okay, what happened, where did John read the note at when he read it?
PR: Downstairs.
TT: Okay. Where, where was . . .
PR: Down, down in the, you know, on, not, not in the laundry room area, but down. I said there’s a note down there.
TT: Okay. Down towards the butler’s kitchen in that area?
PR: No, not all the way down there. On the wooden floor . . .
TT: Okay.
PR: . . .right there by the TV room.
TT: Okay um. . .
PR: He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched over the note and had it laid out there on the floor cause thee was a light. It was still kind of darkish and there was a light, hallway light on . . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .he was, you know, reading it there.

* * *

TT: Okay. Where, where were you at when you called 911 cause I know there’s . .
PR: Kitchen.

* * *

TT: Okay. Okay. So you are in there making the 911 call. John’s out in the hallway reading the note, um . . .
PR: Well, I mean we were real, the phone’s right here and he was right there.
TT: Right.
PR: I mean it’s just . . .
TT: Right around the corner. Okay.

* * *

PR: Well I remember I, I remember myself being of the phone and he was crouched down on the floor there in the hallway looking, reading at the note.
ST: Okay.