Patsy Ramsey

[ScarlettScarpetta]

it would perhaps be difficult for a layperson to tell with certainty, but the determination of chronic vs acute ranks very high among the reasons forensic pathology exists. it's what they do!

and it's not just the ME who is able to recognize and categorize injuries. I know an RN who worked in the ER for 35+ years and is also a forensic nurse who testifies as a prosecution expert in rape/molestation cases. she recognized acute vs chronic vaginal injuries long before she qualified as a FN. medical professionals in many areas of practice can recognize something for what it is based on experience, whether or not a particular document hangs framed on their wall or particular letters appear after their name

I don't agree. I think that after the abuse she suffered that night, It would not be easy to tell on a body that had been abused most likely 12 hours to the end of the death. There is no way to know what length of abuse she suffered and what damage it really did.

 

[TaylurRose02]

All of this does not lead to murder. None of it does. Some fathers would not know anything that is going on if they are busy family men. And most fathers sleep through the night.

What this has to do with the murder of their child is beyond me.

He found his daughters body at 1pm. He told his son he found it at 11am when Ardnt couldn't find him. That's not odd? That'd be true if John hadn't repeatedly told both housekeepers to repeatedly change JonBenet's sheets because she wet them again.

You don't know what the suspects behavior has to do with the victims murder? Thank God you aren't a cop.

 

[gramcracker]

You don't know what the suspects behavior has to do with the victims murder? Thank God you aren't a cop.

or a district attorney!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He found his daughters body at 1pm. He told his son he found it at 11am when Ardnt couldn't find him. That's not odd? That'd be true if John hadn't repeatedly told both housekeepers to repeatedly change JonBenet's sheets because she wet them again.

You don't know what the suspects behavior has to do with the victims murder? Thank God you aren't a cop.

Not at all what I meant. The problem is the behavior only matters if there is real evidence they are guilty. It can not just be because they are odd or weird or not perfect with their answers. There has to be real solid evidence.

Who said he told his son 11 am? And no I don't think the day he found his dd dead, His timing being off is an issue. It is traumatic and life changing.

 

[gramcracker]

Who said he told his son 11 am?

(his son)

 

[midwest mama]

Not at all what I meant. The problem is the behavior only matters if there is real evidence they are guilty. It can not just be because they are odd or weird or not perfect with their answers. There has to be real solid evidence.

Who said he told his son 11 am? And no I don't think the day he found his dd dead, His timing being off is an issue. It is traumatic and life changing.[/QUOTE)
--------------
Not perfect with their answers??? Give me a break. Contradictions at every turn. And I belive some were flat out lies. That type of response at any time on a witness stand would have been shredded up in nothing flat by a qualified prosecutor. (Obviously wasn't going to be AH, was it?)

JR said in his own words in one of his books that his children from his first marriage wet the bed, so he was not oblivious to the personal behaviors of his children.

Stuart Long was in the van and heard the conversation between JR and JAR. SE was the one to call authorities to report what he heard.

Your disbelief and challenges of reported Ramsey commentaries from reliable sources d o not negate them in most thinking minds.

MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

(his son)

I don't find that odd at all. Either the child who was 9 or the father who was distraught made a mistake. It is not a lie. We know when he found her. there were people in the house at 11 am so we know that is not possible.

 

[Flatlander]

I find Arndt less than credible when it comes to everything. I find her to be a little off the deep end. I don't accept her reports as factual.

I stay away and come back to this? Arndt was the only one face to face with JR when this happened. Sure we have every right to question her; but were we there? She didn't make a lot of great decisions but she witnessed the unfolding discovery of JB body. Here is the less than credible Arndt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aly2fPK-XE

This stuff about chronic abuse? I do not think it normal for 6 and 9 year old children to defecate in their own bed, smear on the walls, leave soiled underpants laying around, smear chocolate boxes with their poo.
http://psychcentral.com/ask-the-therapist/2011/05/02/i-think-stepchildren-have-been-sexually-abused/

Just for the forums sake I will give you this. I have always been on the Burke did it fence. I recently became friends with a Deputy sheriff and told him of my interest in JB. Without blinking an eye he said he never studied the case but remembered the 1997 CNN interview. He stated that when John and Patsy were asked if they killed JB JR shock his head 'yes' and Patsy looked at JR. since then I have tried opening this interview to no avail. Odd.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I stay away and come back to this? Arndt was the only one face to face with JR when this happened. Sure we have every right to question her; but were we there? She didn't make a lot of great decisions but she witnessed the unfolding discovery of JB body.

This stuff about chronic abuse? I do not think it normal for 6 and 9 year old children to defecate in their own bed, smear on the walls, leave soiled underpants laying around, smear chocolate boxes with their poo.
http://psychcentral.com/ask-the-therapist/2011/05/02/i-think-stepchildren-have-been-sexually-abused/

Just for the forums sake I will give you this. I have always been on the Burke did it fence. I recently became friends with a Deputy sheriff and told him of my interest in JB. Without blinking an eye he said he never studied the case but remembered the 1997 CNN interview. He stated that when John and Patsy were asked if they killed JB JR shock his head 'yes' and Patsy looked at JR. since then I have tried opening this interview to no avail. Odd.

I have found no evidence of any Smearing of poo anywhere. None.

I feel bad for LA in a way but she was way out of her league and it shows. She is responsible for the contamination and most likely disintegration of evidence.

 

[gramcracker]

I don't find that odd at all. Either the child who was 9 or the father who was distraught made a mistake. It is not a lie. We know when he found her. there were people in the house at 11 am so we know that is not possible.

no. not the son who was 9 and 11/12, the oldest son. JR's whereabouts were not documented for a 90-minute period including 11am. please don't misrepresent the known circumstances

 

[gramcracker]

I stay away and come back to this?

yah, but fortunately it only happens on the days when the sun rises in the east

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

no. not the son who was 9 and 11/12, the oldest son. JR's whereabouts were not documented for a 90-minute period including 11am. please don't misrepresent the known circumstances

I still believe it is a misunderstanding. I don't believe for one moment it was before she was found by JR and Fleet.

Do you have a link to an interview I can read through? Thanks.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

no. not the son who was 9 and 11/12, the oldest son. JR's whereabouts were not documented for a 90-minute period including 11am. please don't misrepresent the known circumstances

So as best I can gather I see the only reference of this coming from ST. Someone I just don't count as a good source.
So that is why I have blocked that out.

JR was there in the house with everyone else that LA let in, She should have had people corralled and in one spot and a serious search going on by the Police. Not the father of the victim.

 

[gramcracker]

So as best I can gather I see the only reference of this coming from ST.

I haven't looked it up but from memory ST was indeed a source for that and I also remember that he recorded the conversation. no one sued him for publishing the information and the fact that it was recorded, so there's that

 

[Mama2JML]

He found his daughters body at 1pm. He told his son he found it at 11am when Ardnt couldn't find him. That's not odd? That'd be true if John hadn't repeatedly told both housekeepers to repeatedly change JonBenet's sheets because she wet them again.

You don't know what the suspects behavior has to do with the victims murder? Thank God you aren't a cop.

Just about every statement you've posted above conflicts with known facts.

 

[Meara]

So as best I can gather I see the only reference of this coming from ST. Someone I just don't count as a good source.
So that is why I have blocked that out.

JR was there in the house with everyone else that LA let in, She should have had people corralled and in one spot and a serious search going on by the Police. Not the father of the victim.

IIRC, LA didn't let anyone in after she was left there to manage on her own. The victim advocates left. She did corral everyone in the den off the back hall -- the Ramseys, Whites, Fernies, and Fr. Hoverstock. It was difficult to keep them in the room. There was no other police officer on hand to search the house again.

 

[Mama2JML]

It wasn't John Andrew, it was Stewart Long.

 

[DeeDee249]

JR didn't have to actually find her because he knew where she was. That being said, just because there were people in the house at 11 am doesn't mean JR's whereabouts were known the whole time.
He "disappeared" from sight between 10 am and noon. Doesn't mean he left the house. I feel he was in the basement, putting the finishing touches on the crime scene.

 

[gramcracker]

She was only examined by one medical examiner. Every other opinion you see is just off his notes so it is not like they are going to find anything new.

But the body was only examined by one ME. Slides, reports were seen by a lot of people.. But the body itself was examined by the ME. That is it.

Schiller's Perfect murder Perfect Town/kindle location 940

That night, John Meyer returned to the morgue. With the coroner was Dr Andrew Sirotnak, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Colorado's Health Sciences Center. The two men reexamined JonBenet's genitals and confirmed Meyer's earlier findings that there was evidence of vaginal injury.

 

[DeDee]

It is appalling the besmirching of BPD that one is willing to do to boost the IDI.

The only misunderstanding is the outright dismissal of evidence. Scoffing at evidence as holding no evidentiary value only allows the prescient IDI to waltz in unimpeded.

None of us possess police reports for this case but we can interpret LE interviews. The LE interviews tells us a police report made by SL and JAR, as it pertains to JR finding his child's body at 11, does exist. LE would be investigators such as LA, Steve Thomas and James Kolar that are so easily dismissed by a minor few IDIs as underachievers and book-writing gold diggers.

This is what JR said about it:

1997-04-30: John Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Underlined and BBM

John Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

JR: Ah, well, I remember they took me aside, and we sat in John Andrew’s room which is the one next to JonBenet’s and she went through what I should do when we talked to the caller and I must insist that I talk to JonBenet and that we need until 5 o’clock to raise the money. I’d actually called my (inaudible) and arranged for the money. Ah, and I think we had by that time started to wonder if one of the housekeepers might be involved. And there was some activity around that direction. We waited until past 11 and then we, and then I think we were in the living room and Linda said why don’t you take someone and look through the house and see if there’s anything you notice that’s unusual. And Fleet and I, Fleet was standing there and said he’d go with me. And we went down to the basement, went into the train room, which is, you know, the train set is, and that’s really the only window that’s, would let in entrance into he basement. And actually I’d gone down there earlier that morning, into that room, and the window was broken, but I didn’t see any glass around, so I assumed it was broken last summer. I used that window to get into the house when (inaudible) I didn’t have a key. But the window was open, about an eighth of an inch, and just kind latched it. So I went back down with Fleet, we looked around for some glass again, still didn’t see any glass. And I told him that I thought that the break came from when I did that last summer and then, then I went from there into the cellar. Pull on the door, it was latched. I reach up and unlatched it, and then I saw the white blanket, (inaudible).

Read below where JR does not deny telling his son, JAR, that he found his daughter at 11:00. That's because he did. JR was not in the basement doing Aerobics when he was absent during those forty five minutes LA lost touch with him.

April 11, 2000

Thomas writes that John Ramsey knew his wife was involved as soon as he read the ransom note but immediately began covering for her.

"If he truly believed that, I feel sorry for him," Ramsey said. "He's a mixed-up kid." Thomas theorized that John Ramsey found his daughter's body hours before he carried her out of the basement. As proof, he notes that according to police reports, Ramsey told his older children, John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey, that JonBenét was found about 11 a.m. Her body was brought out of the basement after 1 p.m. Dec. 26, 1996.

Ramsey said Monday that he had just found his youngest daughter dead and barely knew what day or year it was, let alone the time.

"Who knows what I told John Andrew?" he said.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon041100a.htm