Patsy Ramsey

[TawnyaFortWorth]

I have no knowledge of that which is BBM, above. Someone moved the note to the floor, if (at minimum) we are to believe Offiver French. I understand why one would question the testimony of John & Patsy. ...&, even, John Fernie. BUT, we have the sworn testimony of a LEO confirming the sworn testimony of a witness, which is in line with BOTH Ramseys recollections. I do not understand how one could feel confident in theorizing something entirely different than what the consistencies among the testimonies of these four individuals reveals.

The most confusing of all.... During one interview, Patsy stated that she had came down the stairs and then turned back to read ransom note. If this scenario is correct, did she skip a step? Jumping over the note on those spiral steps? It seems to me that would have been unnatural and require a considerable amount of effort. And in the other scenario, Patsy would have had to come completely down the stairs in order to read the ransom note, and she would have had to pick it up. Why are there no fingerprints on any of the pages?

 

[Ponytale]

The most confusing of all.... During one interview, Patsy stated that she had came down the stairs and then turned back to read ransom note. If this scenario is correct, did she skip a step? Jumping over the note on those spiral steps? It seems to me that would have been unnatural and require a considerable amount of effort. And in the other scenario, Patsy would have had to come completely down the stairs in order to read the ransom note, and she would have had to pick it up. Why are there no fingerprints on any of the pages?

Yes, Patsy stated that she did manage to step over the note (as there is no footprint on the papers). The stairs were covered with carpet, so stepping on a peace of paper laid on a soft surface with your bodyweight when coming down the stairs, would probably have left a mark/and/or wrinkles on it. IMO
There was quite a bit of discussion about it online and, if I remember correctly, I even remember seeing a test done (on a show?) how it would look like if someone would skip a step on a spiral staircase when coming down. So not only did she not leave her fingerprints that would indicate her handling and reading the note, she left no footprints too and just skipped over the step twice - coming down and going back up again. The notepad that was from the Ramsey household was collected and tested, it showed five prints from Patsy, one from the police officer who collected it, and one from the document examiner. The ransom note had one print from the document examiner.

TOM HANEY: You come to it, you stop and you look and see -- you kind of bend over from higher up?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I passed it, then turned back around to turn to look and see what it was.
TOM HANEY: Did you step over that rung or--
PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think I stepped on it, because you know, you step on paper, it kind of does that. So I somehow got around it. And just I stopped and just went up the stairs.
TOM HANEY: So you see the note, you read that portion, you're at the bottom of the stairs, then you start back up?
PATSY RAMSEY: I ran up.

 

[ekc]

I may be far behind here but was wondering if as of yet anyone deciphered the sbtc on the ransom note other than victory! saved by the cross. Why would she be saved by the cross and when did the pastor/priest/minister show up at the house? would he not have been able to recognize a possibility of those letters? or did he?

 

[Burgh Dude]

I may be far behind here but was wondering if as of yet anyone deciphered the sbtc on the ransom note other than victory! saved by the cross. Why would she be saved by the cross and when did the pastor/priest/minister show up at the house? would he not have been able to recognize a possibility of those letters? or did he?

It's possible SBTC Victory! is something John picked up from his time in the US Navy. He was assigned to the Navy Public Works Center at Subic Bay in the Philippines as a Civil Engineer Corps officer.

The Navy Public Works Center at Subic Bay was a former training facility located at the U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay in the Philippines, where personnel from the Navy Public Works Center would receive training on base maintenance and construction projects.

There's not much material on the facility other than real basic information. However, Naval Base Subic Bay was the largest overseas U.S. military installation until 1991 and was a major repair base for the Navy during the Vietnam War. Ramsey was there in 1968-69 right at the peak of the Vietnam War so he would have seen lots military units rotating in and out as it was a very active installation at the time.

All US Military Units have a motto. You're probably familiar with the Marines motto, "Semper Fidelis" or "Semper Fi" for short. That's their motto as a whole, but individual units also have their own, the 3rd Marine Division motto is "Fidelity, Honor, Valor", the US Army Eighth Division in Korea motto is "Pacific Victors" (referring to WWII & Korean War), the US Navy's 2nd Fleet motto is "Ready to Fight" and so on and so on, you get the idea.

So it's plausible that Ramsey, in an effort to support the "small foreign faction" ruse, pulled that acronym and motto (SBTC Victory!) out of his memory banks and from some military unit that rotated in and out of Subic Bay during his time there. I speculate that Ramsey thought that would be vague enough so it couldn't be linked to him directly and also make the small foreign faction sound legitimate.

The "SBTC" acronym could have been from an actual unit on the base.

'S' Subic
'B' Bay - He was assigned to Naval Base Subic Bay
'T' Training - He would have been a student of a Training unit.
'C' Company - The U.S. Navy uses the term "ship's Company" to refer to the crew of a ship.

'Victory!' - He could have taken that motto from a random unit he came in contact with on the base.

 

[Ponytale]

Another explanation that has been discussed is Saved By The Cross.
Ramsey's referred to themselves as a "good Christian family" and even their priest (Rev. Hoverstock) was invited by Mrs Fernie to be with them in the morning when JB was found. Patsy was seen praying to God and Jesus that morning. So if they knew that she was dead and soon to be found in the house, they may have wanted the priest to be there when it happened to make it more "appropriate" when she was found. Would they have invited a reverend over, if they knew that it really was only a kidnapping?
When John carried her body up the basement stairs and placed her on the floor, he stroked her hair and called her "my little angel". Then Patsy went to see her with Rev. Hoverstock. They all were in a circle around her body and the reverend laid them to recite a prayer. After that Patsy asked for Lazarus to raise JB from dead.

By reading those statements it does seems that this part of Christianity was important to them that morning. So "Saved By The Cross" goes along with that theory - not killed and murdered, but saved and in heaven now.

 

[Tricia]

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[CloudedTruth]

Another explanation that has been discussed is Saved By The Cross.
Ramsey's referred to themselves as a "good Christian family" and even their priest (Rev. Hoverstock) was invited by Mrs Fernie to be with them in the morning when JB was found. Patsy was seen praying to God and Jesus that morning. So if they knew that she was dead and soon to be found in the house, they may have wanted the priest to be there when it happened to make it more "appropriate" when she was found. Would they have invited a reverend over, if they knew that it really was only a kidnapping?
When John carried her body up the basement stairs and placed her on the floor, he stroked her hair and called her "my little angel". Then Patsy went to see her with Rev. Hoverstock. They all were in a circle around her body and the reverend laid them to recite a prayer. After that Patsy asked for Lazarus to raise JB from dead.

By reading those statements it does seems that this part of Christianity was important to them that morning. So "Saved By The Cross" goes along with that theory - not killed and murdered, but saved and in heaven now.

Personally, I think Saved by the Cross is a very likely meaning. PR was big on using acronyms and I think that would have been particularly meaningful to her.

PR claimed to have been healed from her cancer by Divine Intervention. PR had a tendency towards the dramatic. She leaned into Christian symbolism. She didn't just "ask" for Lazarus to raise JB from the dead, she was pleading from a state of apparent hysteria. Hearing it described by those who were there it presents as very theatrical and dramatic, very PR.

When one looks at the entire scene that occurred from the moment that JR found JB's body, it's interesting to note PR's behavior. She was in the den lying on the couch, with Barb Fernie and Priscilla White tending to her. Rev. Hoverstock was in the kitchen heating up something to drink. JR recounts that he screamed, and we know that FW ran upstairs shouting that they had found her, calling for an ambulance, asking for someone to call 911. He runs into the den and attempts that call himself, then runs back towards the stairs to the basement. Everyone in the house moves towards the stairs, anxious that she has been found and no doubt wondering about her condition which IMO is a natural response to what is going on. But there is one person who does not move at all, and that is PR. Her missing child has been found, her condition unknown, it's still possible for anyone there at that point to think that she may have been alive, but PR doesn't move from the couch. She is the only one left sitting in the den.

JR brings JB up from the basement and places her on the floor. Linda Arndt then moves her to a spot on the carpet near the Christmas tree. She and JR have their moment over JB's body where she tells him that she's dead. JR then goes and gets a blanket to cover her. Someone else gets a sweatshirt and places that to cover her bare feet. BF and PW at some point go back into the den to tend to PR who is still inexplicably sitting on the couch. How many minutes have passed now? PR finally starts to get up, supported by BF and PW as if she can barely walk on her own. The trio slowly moves into the room where the body is. As they near JB's body, PR is able to run unassisted to the body where she throws herself onto JB as she is wailing. And at some point raises her hands in the air as she wails for Lazarus to raise JB from the dead.

Now, call me skeptical but this sure reads like something out of a choreographed play. She waited so she could make her entrance and the theatrics ensued with all eyes on her, witnesses to the grief she wanted (needed?) everyone to see. I think she put SBTC in the note because Saved by the Cross was something she needed to believe for JB in order to live with what had happened, which IMO she played a role in. The belief that she was in Heaven with God / Jesus, lifted up and "saved" from her suffering that she had endured that night. Victory. That's the only way PR could go on.

I do want to express that this does not mean I think her grief wasn't real, or that she was faking it. I'm sure it was real. However the display she put on feels exactly like just that....a display she felt was needed to sell what she and JR were selling.....that they had no knowledge of what had happened and it was done by some "creature" as I think JR has referenced in interviews. She was caught earlier in the day watching the police who were still there through the splayed fingers of her hands, observing how they were assessing the scene, watching how they were acting and what they were observing, what she could glean from their demeanor and reactions.

Years later when PR herself passed from the return of the cancer, her sister Pam said this: "She's gone. She got her Victory at 3 o'clock in the morning on Saturday".

 

[Slebby]

SBTC on a telephone keypad also coincides with PATC (“pat-C”) on the keypad. I note this because when I was a kid, my teeny bopper friends and I had alpha/numeric nicknames based on the letters on a telephone keypad. It seems very PR, imo.

 

[CloudedTruth]

SBTC on a telephone keypad also coincides with PATC (“pat-C”) on the keypad. I note this because when I was a kid, my teeny bopper friends and I had alpha/numeric nicknames based on the letters on a telephone keypad. It seems very PR, imo.

Wow! Good catch! That's quite interesting......