Patsy Ramsey

[Darly314]

If we are getting rid of pageants are we also going to get rid of dance? Competitive cheer?

I did not suggest getting rid of pageants; parents looking at them as an activity, not as the most important aspect of a six year old child's life, is what I addressed. When it ceases being a "fun" event for the child, or becomes more important than schoolwork, then the problem arises. Same goes for sports, dance, chess club, Scouts, etc.

 

[DeeDee249]

If we are getting rid of pageants are we also going to get rid of dance? Competitive cheer?

I don't compare pageants to dance OR cheer. The cheer costumes are not inappropriate, and neither are MOST dance costumes. II find the competitive dance costumes and routines to be more inappropriate than others. This is where the parents come in, as I said. These activities need not be eliminated. Parents simply have to have the courage to say to whoever is choreographing and costuming these CHILDREN that they will not tolerate overtly sexual costumes or moves. Show some moral courage.

 

[Chewy]

My point is that people have been ranting and screaming for years about Jonbenet's "highly sexualized Vegas Stripper costumes" and I honestly don't see it, looking through her shows. The "Vegas Strip Girl" costume she DID wear, reminds me of those old Hollywood Musicals with the ladies with the elaborate costumes and the fancy hats. Nothing that Jonbenet did is hypersexualized. We're just used to seeing sexualized girls so she was dumped into a category. If I would criticize Patsy for anything it would be putting make up on her and treating her like a DOLL not a stripper. But people see what they want to see.

The girls in the video above ARE sexualized IMO and I don't think anyone would disagree there. But Jonbenet? I don't see it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

My point is that people have been ranting and screaming for years about Jonbenet's "highly sexualized Vegas Stripper costumes" and I honestly don't see it, looking through her shows. The "Vegas Strip Girl" costume she DID wear, reminds me of those old Hollywood Musicals with the ladies with the elaborate costumes and the fancy hats. Nothing that Jonbenet did is hypersexualized. We're just used to seeing sexualized girls so she was dumped into a category. If I would criticize Patsy for anything it would be putting make up on her and treating her like a DOLL not a stripper. But people see what they want to see.

The girls in the video above ARE sexualized IMO and I don't think anyone would disagree there. But Jonbenet? I don't see it.

I think the problem is that people are not familiar with how big the child pageant thing is to southern women. Now we have a crazy view of it from Honey booboo but once it was something that was considered a right of passage and not at all what it is today.

It is a whole different world. And I see nothing wrong with it as a rule. Would I do it with my child?? No.. Not unless she wanted to but I don't see the big deal. I think people just want to blame Patsy for her death any way they can. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't compare pageants to dance OR cheer. The cheer costumes are not inappropriate, and neither are MOST dance costumes. II find the competitive dance costumes and routines to be more inappropriate than others. This is where the parents come in, as I said. These activities need not be eliminated. Parents simply have to have the courage to say to whoever is choreographing and costuming these CHILDREN that they will not tolerate overtly sexual costumes or moves. Show some moral courage.

Sure they are.. There are many many inappropriate costumes and moves in both Cheer and Dance. One is not better than the other.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Patsy used JonBenet as an object to express her own self image, in the pageants and on the night of Christmas 1996. IMO.

 

[Chewy]

So does nearly every single mother I know. I mean seriously. Most mothers of 6 year old girls are doing things with them that THEY think are fun, not the 6 year old.

Scroll through your facebook page

The mothers into sports have their kids in sports
The mothers into dance have their kids in dance
The mothers into yoga have their kids in yoga
The mothers who can play instruments have their kids playing instruments.


Seriously, go look at your facebook page and see. The only mothers I see that don't have their kids "match" what they do are mothers who basically have no specialized talent or interest in their lives. IOW the couch potato moms who sit on the computer all day. They are the ones that drag the kids around to all sorts of activities that are random and they are the kids that don't stick with anything to fruition. It's just "FUN" Anyone who has developed a talent at something is going to want to pass it on to their kids. Patsy was a pageant winner for years....shock and suprise that she got Jonbenet into the same thing.

I have two friends from high school who were dancers. All their girls are in dance. I have three mothers who love running in marathons ALL of their kids join them on the marathon circuits. The girls who were on the cheerleading squad in high school? Guess what their daughters are doing from the time they are 6-10 Gymnastics.

I have 2 friends that play musical instruments and all of them have kids who play an instrument.


It's NORMAL....LOL SMH

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Patsy used JonBenet as an object to express her own self image, in the pageants and on the night of Christmas 1996. IMO.

Except that JBR loved it. She loved performing and loved the attention so that really does not come into play here.

IMO, that is just a judgment on someone. Not a fact in the case. Again IMO

 

[Darly314]

Except that JBR loved it. She loved performing and loved the attention so that really does not come into play here.

IMO, that is just a judgment on someone. Not a fact in the case. Again IMO

Agreed. Parents that love reading take their kids to libraries too Though I think the pageants, if too time consuming, not in a child's best interests, my beliefs about the activity do not make a parent "bad". I have lived in the south my entire life, except for undergrad years; sports are the primary obsession, with young & old alike.

As for "sexualizing" children, are we to place them in sackcloth & ashes?

 

[Junebug99]

Every dance recital I have ever been to, the girls were skimpily dressed with heavy make-up, 2 year olds all the way up to young adults. Same with competitive cheer, skimpy uniforms heavy make up. My dd loves volleyball, she eats, sleeps and dreams it. She plays at school, on a summer league and a traveling team, she is talented, 7th grader with skills at varsity level. More she plays the more she ups her chances of a scholarship, and doing what she loves after high school. It may seem extreme to some, but it's her passion and she loves it. I would like to add, even some of jr high Vb uniforms are skimpy.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

So does nearly every single mother I know. I mean seriously. Most mothers of 6 year old girls are doing things with them that THEY think are fun, not the 6 year old.

Scroll through your facebook page

The mothers into sports have their kids in sports
The mothers into dance have their kids in dance
The mothers into yoga have their kids in yoga
The mothers who can play instruments have their kids playing instruments.


Seriously, go look at your facebook page and see. The only mothers I see that don't have their kids "match" what they do are mothers who basically have no specialized talent or interest in their lives. IOW the couch potato moms who sit on the computer all day. They are the ones that drag the kids around to all sorts of activities that are random and they are the kids that don't stick with anything to fruition. It's just "FUN" Anyone who has developed a talent at something is going to want to pass it on to their kids. Patsy was a pageant winner for years....shock and suprise that she got Jonbenet into the same thing.

I have two friends from high school who were dancers. All their girls are in dance. I have three mothers who love running in marathons ALL of their kids join them on the marathon circuits. The girls who were on the cheerleading squad in high school? Guess what their daughters are doing from the time they are 6-10 Gymnastics.

I have 2 friends that play musical instruments and all of them have kids who play an instrument.


It's NORMAL....LOL SMH

I feel bad for those kids. They are probably pushed to do those activities by their parents, and have a lot of pressure to excel. Let your kid do what they want to do, and trying random activities sounds like more fun to me than having to do the same thing multiple days a week because it is what Mommy or Daddy wants.

 

[HMSHood]

I just do not like the idea of children doing things that JonBenet did. Too much pressure on them.

Parents live way too much through their children.

 

[Venom]

Wow.
I must be living under a rock. I scroll down through my facebook and don't see anyone really post pictures of their kids doing things that the parents used too do. I guess they are all couch potatoes.
FWIW, I played an instrument in school, does my dd? No
I wasn't in dance. Is my dd? Yes
So I guess that means I must be a couch potato on facebook all day trying to live through my daughter??? Offensive much? Smh.

 

[Chewy]

I feel bad for those kids. They are probably pushed to do those activities by their parents, and have a lot of pressure to excel. Let your kid do what they want to do, and trying random activities sounds like more fun to me than having to do the same thing multiple days a week because it is what Mommy or Daddy wants.

I don't necessarily feel bad for them. I think when people have no real talent in life they don't understand what it is like for someone who does. I, just to clarify have no real talent in life. :floorlaugh: I'm not making snide comments about anyone here.

But I don't feel sorry for a person who passes on a talent to a kid. I was just reading the other day that Hugh Laurie's father was an Olympic gold medalist in rowing, and Hugh Laurie also took up rowing when he went to Cambridge. There's a difference between someone who "played an instrument in high school" or "Played soccer in junior high school" and someone who takes it on in a serious way.

And again, she was 6. Most parents DO put their kids in activities that the parent chooses when the kid is that age. They also see if the kid is interested in it. Everyone's acting like Jonbenet was begging her mom to get out of it. But she apparently had fun doing it. So what's the problem?


In my personal opinion I hate pageants and dance recitals etc where girls are forced into these costumes. But as I said before, I have two friends who are professional dancers who have raised their kids in dance.

It's just common sense to me that when someone has excelled in something they pass it on to their kids because it's part of their life and not just an activity for FUN the way it would be for a regular person.

Come to think of it, my husband was a professional drummer for years, and now he's got my son in Piano. What a jerk right? How dare he push this on his kid. LOL :drumroll:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wow.
I must be living under a rock. I scroll down through my facebook and don't see anyone really post pictures of their kids doing things that the parents used too do. I guess they are all couch potatoes.
FWIW, I played an instrument in school, does my dd? No
I wasn't in dance. Is my dd? Yes
So I guess that means I must be a couch potato on facebook all day trying to live through my daughter??? Offensive much? Smh.

Really? Because I know a lot of guys who played football and their kids do now, Or baseball or soccer or hockey or golf.

It is completely normal for kids to be interested in things their parents are. It means nothing in the scheme of a horrific crime.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I just do not like the idea of children doing things that JonBenet did. Too much pressure on them.

Parents live way too much through their children.

The issue is though that is just your feelings on it. There are many accounts of how much she loved it. Loved performing.

There is nothing that says this was pushed on her.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't necessarily feel bad for them. I think when people have no real talent in life they don't understand what it is like for someone who does. I, just to clarify have no real talent in life. :floorlaugh: I'm not making snide comments about anyone here.

But I don't feel sorry for a person who passes on a talent to a kid. I was just reading the other day that Hugh Laurie's father was an Olympic gold medalist in rowing, and Hugh Laurie also took up rowing when he went to Cambridge. There's a difference between someone who "played an instrument in high school" or "Played soccer in junior high school" and someone who takes it on in a serious way.

And again, she was 6. Most parents DO put their kids in activities that the parent chooses when the kid is that age. They also see if the kid is interested in it. Everyone's acting like Jonbenet was begging her mom to get out of it. But she apparently had fun doing it. So what's the problem?


In my personal opinion I hate pageants and dance recitals etc where girls are forced into these costumes. But as I said before, I have two friends who are professional dancers who have raised their kids in dance.

It's just common sense to me that when someone has excelled in something they pass it on to their kids because it's part of their life and not just an activity for FUN the way it would be for a regular person.

Come to think of it, my husband was a professional drummer for years, and now he's got my son in Piano. What a jerk right? How dare he push this on his kid. LOL :drumroll:

I do not have any talent, yet I have many hobbies. Well, there is something I am very good at. It is not sports or music so I am not sure if it counts. Does it bother you that you have no talent?

 

[Chewy]

I do not have any talent, yet I have many hobbies. Well, there is something I am very good at. It is not sports or music so I am not sure if it counts. Does it bother you that you have no talent?

Not really, I have a talent in what I do for a living, but it's not something that would be fun for kids. It's test prep. LOL But I've sometimes been envious of those facebook friends who have given their kids a life long gift in learning a talent and being part of group of people.

I had each of my kids do something that they liked. One is an artist and plays soccer, the other is a lifeguard who loved swimming. My youngest seems to have taken on my habit of sitting online but he's studying piano. I put him in piano because he had a natural affinity for it.

But my point is, Patsy was a pageant girl who won, so to her this wasn't just a hobby, it was a part of her life that she wanted to share with her daughter. I don't get people berating her for doing such a thing.

To me it's a normal and sometimes admirable quality as a parent.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The point is Patsy used JonBenet as an object. IMO.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Objectification From Wikipedia
In social philosophy, objectification means treating a person as a thing, without regard to their dignity.