Patsy Ramsey

[chlban]

Which brings up something else....is anyone else having a hard time pinning down John and Patsy? Some things suggest Patsy was overprotective, some things suggest a little neglect. Now I'm not saying parents always stick to a routine or a philosophy of parenting, but most are consistent.
Like bathing regularly, bedtime. But I just don't feel like there was a lot of consistency.

And that thing about John reading to JB at night even if she was asleep...sorry but that's a little weird. Hollywood certainly gets a lot of mileage out of predators watching their prey sleep and that was the first thing I thought of.

It is JMO, but I think the reason you wouldn't see a lot of consistency is because there was a "public" Patsy and a private Patsy. Just like the house where the "public" rooms were done up like A Dept. Store at Christmas but the "private" house was a pigsty like the room JonBenet was found in.

Same with parenting, marriage, everything, IMO. Public face. Private face.

 

[THE BUNK]

And that thing about John reading to JB at night even if she was asleep...sorry but that's a little weird.

Great excuse for John to stay in Jonbenet's room for extended periods. Even better excuse for Patsy Ramsey to not enter JonBenet's room for fear of waking her up.

 

[bettybaby00]

This speculation is like profiling...percentages, averages and statistics.
Children that age most likely would not wander the house alone at night - most certainly not in the dark. If they were hungry they would wake mom, not look for food on their own. The handle on that fridge is intimidating to a child unless they had used it before, possibly too tight for her too (meaning she may not have been strong enough to pop the lock mechanism much less the air seal). Why bother with the fridge when pantry items are usually easier to reach and less of a hassle.

Personally my triplets, when they were 6, were not allowed to feed themselves from the fridge or pantry unless they had permission (fruit was always in a bowl on the table). With this specific fridge with that handle and roominess they would not have been allowed to touch the fridge without supervision.

Triplets???? You go girl

 

[Theonly1]

The depo read wrong. John said he read himself to sleep. Just fyi...

 

[midwest mama]

Does anyone besides me see this portion of John Ramsey's statement as an "aha moment?"

3 JOHN RAMSEY: Well my -- my
4 amateur reasoning would be that she came
5 home at -- she was in bed, she was asleep
6 before we got home, which was, you know,
7 9:00, 9:15. I believe she was killed that
8 night.
9 LOU SMIT: What night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: The 25th. If I have
11 my dates right. The 26th, evening of the 26th,
12 rather than early in the morning or the next
13 morning.
14 LOU SMIT: Think about the
15 date.
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well okay, the 25th,
17 Christmas Day night. So if you said midnight,
18 that means there is three hours that I would say
19 there is no way she could have eaten any, as --
20 it's a time mark.

Patsy also said that JonBenet liked fresh pineapple, not canned. According to Steve Thomas's book fresh pineapple from a local "fresh market" was found in a container in a Ramsey refrigerator. This was said to be the pineapple which criminalists tested and found to be consistent with the pineapple found in JonBenet's duodenum.

Iirc, Patsy's timeline statements put her going to bed between 10 PM and 10:30 PM on December 25. John Ramsey, as stated above, believed JonBenet was killed prior to midnight then he, imo, stumbles around trying to incorporate Patsy into his version of events.

Yes. Couple that statement with this one John made about selecting the 25th to be put on her grave marker:
I selected December 25 (as that date of death shown on JonBenét's headstone) because I didn't want the world to forget what it did to our daughter on the day of joy and peace, Christmas Day. I want people fifty years from now, a hundred years from now, to look at the marker and say, "The world went mad on that Christmas Day, and someone brutally murdered a child during the peace of Christmas night."

"went mad....and someone brutally murdered a child...." and yet he no longer takes any recognizable action to keep his daughter's brutal murder alive in the mind of LE or the public. Even though he wanted people to remember the incident for 50 or even 100 years?

 

[Linda7NJ]

To be fair, Jonbenet's situation is not like most six year olds. She's a pint sized beauty queen to wealthy parents. Her situation would not be like average six year olds.

In what way do you mean?




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[lawstudent]

Which brings up something else....is anyone else having a hard time pinning down John and Patsy? Some things suggest Patsy was overprotective, some things suggest a little neglect. Now I'm not saying parents always stick to a routine or a philosophy of parenting, but most are consistent.

Thank you! I keep thinking this. For all the analysis that goes on, I feel like I don't know a lot about JB's personality/behavior or how she was raised. How were they viewed as parents, minus the beauty pageant outrage that came later? I can't pin down a personality for either parent either - some people here portray her as depressed and despondent, others as psychotic, others as neglectful, others as in control of everything. Now obviously she can have different presentations in public v. private and at different points in her life, but I can't get a sense of her. And while John may have gone along with a lot and not seemed to have a strong personality, I feel like I know absolutely nothing about how he reacted to things. It's argued he just completely goes along with everything and ignores all sorts of insanity in the house, or that he is a sexual predator, or that he somehow got someone mad enough to murder his daughter out of revenge but not be discovered as a close associate. Obviously, the portrayal of Burke differs wildly as well. Of course, any time the public is wildly speculating on a case, we get a lot of this. But it still seems more than usual given how much discussion has gone on - you'd think more people would have leaked information about them.

 

[TaylurRose02]

To add to the oddity of Patsy and John Ramsey, I've always wondered why they never fixed the window? They were reportedly conscious of security and locking their doors, so why not fix the window John used to enter the home when he didn't have his key?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Anyone means anyone that was asked about it.



Of course, I don’t know if Burke was ever asked about it, which is why I said that it’s never been said that he knew anything about it.



I don’t know what you mean by “in my theory,” but, no, I don’t think the Ramseys were always honest or forthcoming. But, I don’t see any evidence or reason that supports the position that they are lying about the pineapple. In fact, if RDI, lying about the pineapple would be an unnecessary and bizarre thing for them to do. And, if they felt they needed to lie, there are easier lies.

...



AK

"Unnecessary" and "bizarre" are two PERFECT words to describe EVERYTHING about the RAMSEYS!!!!!

You mean like distancing themselves from their own tissue box, flashlight, ice tea "set up"...?
Or how about the ridiculous maneuver Patsy expects us to believe about stepping over the spread out ransom note and turning around to read it....on the spiral back stairs?
Or Priscilla has the same red sweater...


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[Linda7NJ]

Were Jonbenet's fingerprints on the bowl, the cup or the tea bag?

Was there pineapple residue in the bowl?

Those are questions about EVIDENCE not "hmmm my hinky meter doesn't believe them, I'll make up my own theory and go with that instead!"


If you look at the evidence there is pineapple on the table and Jonbenets fingerprints are not on the bowl. There is pineapple in her stomach. So it's clear she couldn't have gotten the bowl herself based on actual evidence not theory. Then we could argue that since Patsy's fingerprints are on the bowl she is the one who got the bowl. But this is not 100 percent because as has been pointed out before, she probably handled the dishes in her home enough to leave fingerprints on the bowl. This is why I asked pages ago, what were the positions of the fingerprints? If the fingerprints were glossed along the outside of the bowl, it could come from touching them in the cupboard. But they are around the bowl in such a way that indicates holding the bowl, then it would indicate something else.

This is why I and others continually ask for evidence to be posted.


ETA it's quite odd to read the John Ramsey interview and see it almost perfectly backs up the statements I've been saying, right down to the cereal. He also says she could have grabbed a bite before they left. All of it. Weird.


I think what people are trying to say is that John Ramsey is insisting they put her straight to bed as soon as they came home. If they didn't and they fed her pineapple and then some catastrophy happened and they killled her, they may have simply forgotten about the pineapple on the table in the other room out of sight and when confronted by the police about it they panicked and kept insisting they put her straight to bed. That much I understand.

However, IMO if you really want to analyze what happened you have to look at all possibilities. If you narrowly focus on one theory you are going to railroad the evidence into that theory. And we've all seen this happen many times in the past where evidence lined up to look ONE way has a totally different interpretation when viewed another way.

I don't know if you realize it or not, it's not all that odd for children as young as JonBenet don't leave usable fingerprints.
Something about the oils...



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[Linda7NJ]

Why do you think anyone on this site hasn't looked at all possibities? Most of us have read more than one book on the case and read much of the available statements, interviews, etc.

I see posters constantly saying they used to think one way then the evidence in the case changed their mind. But even if that weren't true, there's no reason to think anyone came to an opinion without serious thought.



bbm

What evidence are you talking about?

Exactly and thank you. I've followed this case from the day it hit the media. It's the one case I can't let go of. I've changed my opinion many times and I have considered every possibility known to man.

All I'm certain of...it was a Ramsey. Very Likely more than one.




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[Linda7NJ]

Exactly, that's my only issue. Why continually discuss what you would have done as a 6 year old or what you believe a 6 year old would do when the only thing that matters is THIS SIX YEAR OLD???



I don't get it?

Well, it's been stated repeatedly that she and Burke often fended for themselves and left the counters smeared with PB&J. Jelly is kept in the fridge.

John said get cereal out of the pantry....unless she was eating it straight out of the box, it needed milk. Milk is kept in the fridge.


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[gramcracker]

To add to the oddity of Patsy and John Ramsey, I've always wondered why they never fixed the window? They were reportedly conscious of security and locking their doors, so why not fix the window John used to enter the home when he didn't have his key?

I don't believe the claim that it was broken the previous summer. I think it was broken that night

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm

 

[gramcracker]

I don't know if you realize it or not, it's not all that odd for children as young as JonBenet don't leave usable fingerprints.
Something about the oils...

not sure if it applies here, but I was surprised when I took a class and learned that the only human body surfaces that don't have sebaceous/oil glands are the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. (human) oils/etc that aid in leaving fingerprints are picked up by touching something/somewhere

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe the claim that it was broken the previous summer. I think it was broken that night



http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm

What makes zero sense to me. If I were locked out of my house and HAD to break a window ...it certainly wouldn't be a small dirty basement window that I'd have to take my clothes off, remove a grate, and climb down....

I find an easier, cleaner way in...then I would call someone to repair it as soon as I was inside.

( posting from experience)



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[Linda7NJ]

not sure if it applies here, but I was surprised when I took a class and learned that the only human body surfaces that don't have sebaceous/oil glands are the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. (human) oils/etc that aid in leaving fingerprints are picked up by touching something/somewhere

Right.
Those oil glands don't kick into high gear until puberty.

Oh oh... Wanted to add... It's not unusual, even for adults, to not leave usable prints. If a person has very dry clean hands for instance, or the prints are smeared, too many overlapping...etc.

A common and sad misconception is that the absence of fingerprint evidence points to a perps non involvement. False.




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[gramcracker]

me, too, from experience. one time I nailed plywood over a pane when I couldn't get it repaired over the weekend

and, re the alleged debris that an intruder dragged in: if the window was broken for months I would expect debris to be blown in over time by the wind

 

[Linda7NJ]

I find it implausible he didn't recall how or with what he broke the widow.

I remember when I did it. Like it was yesterday. I was mad at myself, took a great deal of time deciding on which window...
Finally opted for one the sofa was against so I would land softly, I used a big rock...


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[2 percent]

Triplets???? You go girl

You should've seen me...I think I was actually bigger than a house!!

I wanted more children but whenever I brought it up my big macho military husband would turn pale, shake and stutter "b-b-b-but what if it happens again?"
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[bettybaby00]

Right.
Those oil glands don't kick into high gear until puberty.

Oh oh... Wanted to add... It's not unusual, even for adults, to not leave usable prints. If a person has very dry clean hands for instance, or the prints are smeared, too many overlapping...etc.

A common and sad misconception is that the absence of fingerprint evidence points to a perps non involvement. False.




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BBM

Another falsehood: prints found are meaningless 'cause they live there.