Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #4

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Are you really suggesting Big Oil is behind this? That fails the test of Occam's razor: "simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones."

The simplest explanation is that the cover-up is a result of the culture Paterno created.
LOL
By far, a more logical explanation is that the wealthy board of control members of Second Mile supported Republican Corbett because his reelection campaign touted "no new taxes".
 
...There'd be no ratings here if certain individuals were excluded.
There'd be no calling for the crucifixion of Paterno if the PSP commander or esteemed governor wouldn't have said he should have done more. Forget the AG's statement that he did no wrong, I'm sure she wasn't in on the proceedings. McQueary puts out an e-mail to say that's not how it happened - wrong. Paterno says nothing to clarify the summary of his testimony - wrong again.

Political games are afoot, my posting friends. One non-profit donates $600k+ to the gov's campaign while ALL big gas co's in the state combined donated only $1M. Big gas had a lot riding on this guy. What did Second Mile have riding on this guy?

They say all politics is local, and I'll leave it to you, since I know nothing about the goings on in Pennsylvania.

And I agree that it was all political, but on a more human scale at the university level, and that leads me to a different conclusion than you are drawing here.

:cow:

For me, the real political moment in this case was when the Penn State bureaucrats (Paterno included) chose to take cover and protect their reputations and protect football while letting a known child-rapist use their facilities for years after he was let go from his job, and where he was known to take other children.

Whatever was leaked from the Grand Jury or from McQueary, politically motivated or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that Sandusky felt right at home in that football program to the point that he wrote a book about it with children on the cover, had his charity connected to it, convinced people he was still scouting high school players (ahem), and had people still calling him a "great man" (like that local high school principal who tried to cover up the abuse of one of the victims).

What we really have here isn't state-wide politics, as much as a great example of Group Think on a grand scale. That's the sociological theory that explains when otherwise intelligent and capable people follow the wrong leader right over a cliff. It explains why Paterno and others took the "risky shift" of putting their own careers and the reputation of the school at risk by covering this up without calling the off-campus police or child services (which I don't believe they did, or they'd still be working there).

In Group Think, there's the "in crowd" and the "out crowd" and Sandusky unfortunately was such an in-crowd guy for so many years that the school leaders circled the wagons for him instead of casting him out. To save the group and keep out a threat, they looked the other way for years. They "punished him" (sort of) by not giving him a coaching job, but let him keep the key to the locker room, and that was really not very smart.

We think of loyalty as the best virtue, but it can actually cause huge mistakes and errors in judgment. That's okay when you're talking about an advertising campaign that doesn't work, or a TV series that might get canceled, or something like Netflix that destroyed itself by insulting its own customers.

But in this particular case, the loyalty to the in-crowd at the Penn State Atheletic program has huge consequences, not just for the young victims who have had their lives destroyed possibly forever and their parents who are racked with guilt, but students, faculty, and fans who are watching in horror as their school's reputation is destroyed. I guess that's stating the obvious on my part, but my point is that it isn't just about poor JoePa and his reputation.

So no, I don't see that it's all political, except on a personal scale since Paterno and Company (and God knows who else) let loyalty cloud their judgment to the point where the rest of the world almost can't believe it. :twocents:
 
Buy a used copy of People of the Lie by Dr. Scott Peck. The last chapter covers the concept of group evil (group think ?). I tried previously to find excerpts to post here, but was unsuccessful. A more pooter literate person might be able to locate some on the internet. That chapter is well done.

The evil of a few men is not going to destroy the academic reputation of Penn State (to the chagrin of all those who wished they had been accepted there, but were not).
http://www.psu.edu/ur/rankings/


Penn State @ State College (main campus) has always been rated as one of the most difficult public universities to be accepted.
http://collegeapps.about.com/gi/o.h...y-Main-Campus-214777#modularProfileWillIGetIn
http://admissions.psu.edu/academics/majors/requirements/50percent/
http://admissions.psu.edu/facts/rankings/
 
Buy a used copy of People of the Lie by Dr. Scott Peck. The last chapter covers the concept of group evil (group think ?). I tried previously to find excerpts to post here, but was unsuccessful. A more pooter literate person might be able to locate some on the internet. That chapter is well done.

The evil of a few men is not going to destroy the academic reputation of Penn State (to the chagrin of all those who wished they had been accepted there, but were not).
http://www.psu.edu/ur/rankings/


Penn State @ State College (main campus) has always been rated as one of the most difficult public universities to be accepted.
http://collegeapps.about.com/gi/o.h...y-Main-Campus-214777#modularProfileWillIGetIn
http://admissions.psu.edu/academics/majors/requirements/50percent/
http://admissions.psu.edu/facts/rankings/

On Group Evil From People OF the Lie
M.Scott Peck

Any group will remain inevitably, potentially conscienceless and evil until such time as each and every individual holds himself or herself directly responsible for the behavior of the whole group... of which he or she is a part. As with any lie, the primary motive of a cover-up is fear. In a situation of prolonged discomfort we humans naturally, almost inevitably, tend to regress. Our psychological growth reverses itself; our maturity is forsaken.

http://samredman.com/peopleofthelie/
 
Scorp, I’ve given a good deal of thought today about the article and link you posted last night.



I’d like to ask you a question about these crucial points that were brought out as being rumored regarding Joe Paterno’s action AND reaction to the 2002 rape:



If these four points are true, Joe Paterno would go from ZERO to HERO in the eyes of many, including myself.

My question?

Why wouldn’t a highly respected 84 year old man, who is also rumored to have even told a sitting President of The United States to “SHOVE IT”, simply call a press conference and state these four points as fact, while offering any supporting information possible PRIOR to loosing his job and reputation?

JoePa tells Nixon to "Shove It!" - YouTube
Nixon was last President in 1974 (37 years ago). Joe Paterno was not 84-years-old in 1973 and was not exhibiting word recall problems which in the elderly are a symptom of a cerebral vascular accident (stroke), Organic Brain Disease, and/or Alzheimer's. You can see him struggle to find words in this video and this states that it was posted 5 years ago.

[ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1137447702280413132"]Joe Paterno Bloopers Penn State[/ame]
 
Thanks for your personal perspective on Sandusky, Azwriter. :blowkiss:

Ahh Gee, you're welcome.

I have to say this has been quite a shock and has effected me to where I'm wracking my brain asking myself "How can this be?"

When Penn State come to play in the Fiesta Bowl in the late 70s or early 80s Jerry sent a greeting to me through one of the coaches on the Arizona State University staff. I hadn't seen him since 1962. But he knew I lived in the area and was nice enough to sign a Fiesta Bowl program and send it my way.
And here I am years later in between the state of wondering and hoping it's not true and then hating him for ruining the lives of so many children. It's a real tragedy for all, including us who knew him in a simplier time.

just my O
 
Respectfully shortened

I understand why you have thoughts that all of the university administration must have known that Sandusky was a pedo after the 1998 molestation. The university and Joe Pa had no way to determine if Sandusky had actually used bathing an indigent child as an excuse to molest him (the 1998 molestation) because this was Sandusky's first pedo charge.

Sandusky used showering with an indigent child as a excellent ruse. <modsnip>

The university and Joe Pa had no control over Sandusky access to children. There are not children enrolled at Penn State. Second Mile's administration had control over Sandusky's access to children. Mill Hall, Pa administration had control over Sandusky's access to children.

Pensfan..I am so sorry this has happened to your school. Here is my issue with the shower. Sandusky was naked in the shower with a child <modsnip>....that is criminal. On that basis alone...if JoePa knew about it...he is responsible to report. I do believe we are going to find out in the court case that Sandusky regularly brought children with him to teh campus and campus related activities.
 
You know stilettos, I've always loved your shoes.

Just My O.

Respectfully snipped by me.

:seeya:azwriter. If you like my shoes..you would fall in love with my shoecloset!! They are my weakness. My kids asked my friends at my 30th High School reunion...did my Mom always wear "hoochie" shoes. :floorlaugh: They answered of course, but that's not exactly what we called them back then. :blushing:

It must be disheartening to look back that way. This whole thing is so sad.
 
Pensfan..I am so sorry this has happened to your school. Here is my issue with the shower. Sandusky was naked in the shower with a child <modsnip>....that is criminal. On that basis alone...if JoePa knew about it...he is responsible to report. I do believe we are going to find out in the court case that Sandusky regularly brought children with him to teh campus and campus related activities.
I realize that Sandusky wasn't showering for the purpose to clean off a <modsnip> child. <modsnip>Yes, Paterno and all the others that knew of the 2002 incident should have notified the AG's office and the FBI, IMO. If Paterno, the university President, and others knew about the 1998 incident, they should have notified the FBI instead of the "real police" because the "real police" would have turned the case over to Ray Gricar. If they knew of the 1998 case, they might have thought that it was a waste of time to notify the real police because Gricar might not have prosecuted the rape since he didn't prosecute the 1998 molestation.

Most people don't let those with dirty shoes trample around in their house and this is why I don't think that Paterno suspected that Sandusky was a pedophile before the 2002 late-evening rape. Paterno had no reason to cover for Sandusky if Paterno believed the 1998 incident was suspicious for Sandusky being a pedo. Sandusky was no longer working for Paterno's program and Paterno wasn't Sandusky's best buddy. A fixated pedophile does not have adult buddies as he acts like an immature teen and the fixated pedophile chooses children as his peer group/friends. In Sandusky's book, Sandusky even stated that Joe Paterno told him that he would like to recommend him for a head coach position at another institution, but he couldn't because he acted like a goofy teen. (paraphrasing)

Sandusky had a very good "cover" for bringing children on to the campus before 2002. He, like many other fixated pedos, had carefully arranged his life to have an excellent excuse to always be near children. Many people don't study pedophiles and they wouldn't know that this is what fixated pedophiles do..........except for Dr. Jack Raykovitz, child psychologist and CEO x 28 years for Second Mile. Did I mention that in the state of PA that licensed psychologists must obtain 30 hours of certified continuing education credits every 2 years? There is NOOOOO way Dr. Raykovitz missed the information about identifying pedophiles.
http://www.papsy.org/ce/ce-licensure-requirements.html
 
Sandusky Victim&#8217;s Mother Recalls Town Reaction: "Our Football Team Is Going To Lose And It&#8217;s All Because Of Your Son"
Two stories have been published today that shed a harrowing light on the awful circumstances faced by the boy identified by the Penn State grand jury summary as Victim 1:

1. The Huffington Post's Ryan D. Buell interviewed the boy's mother several times, and his story summarizing what she had to say includes plenty of details about how badly her son was mistreated at Central Mountain High School&#8212;by skeptical administrators as well as cruel fellow students and others in the community. The boy withdrew from attending Central Mountain last week.

2. Nate Schweber and Jo Becker of the New York Times do their best to profile Victim 1 by talking to some of those who know him. Two themes are covered: The account of a friend of the boy who went along for an outing that included Sandusky and Victim 1; and the story of a track coach who had carved out a role as the boy's mentor, only to get fired once the boy began tuning him out and the school got wind of the coach's efforts to try to get through to him.
---
much more at Deadspin link above, with key excerpts from articles below

Links to stories referred to in Deadspin piece:

Penn State Scandal: Mother Of Alleged Jerry Sandusky Victim Claims Mistreatment By Son's School (Huffington Post)

For a Reported Penn State Victim, a Search for Trust (New York Times)
 
I wouldn't expect a section dedicated to exculpating anyone.
A document that was supposed to be sealed was leaked for some reason. Why was it leaked at all? … Political games are afoot, my posting friends. One non-profit donates $600k+ to the gov's campaign while ALL big gas co's in the state combined donated only $1M. Big gas had a lot riding on this guy. What did Second Mile have riding on this guy?
I wasn't thinking the GJP would include something with the direct goal of exculpating Paterno. But suppose Paterno had done something like was described: "Paterno followed up and was told that the police and the DA were not going to pursue the matter. It is reported that Paterno's reaction was one of anger and that he demanded that Sandusky be barred from campus."

That would be part of the factual record vital to a case against Curly and Shultz, which is part of the presentment. However I defer to others because of my total lack of legal background.

I agree with your emphasis on donations and other financial mechanisms behind the scenes. It would be nice to have some kind of concept-map-like diagram / timeline summarizing all the money involved (including contracts Second Mile board members' companies had with the university). If I didn't have a job to attend to I could really get into that kind of investigative stuff.
 
Lord have mercy. It is not.

If you are stating that Second Mile is Penn State because the mascot once wore a Second Mile t-shirt, know that the Penn State mascot also wears Show Your Support for Special Olympics paraphernalia. If you stated this because wealthy benefactors have given money to Penn State and Second Mile, please realize that they give money to many not-for-profit organizations.

From what I've read, board members on second mile ran companies that had millions in contracts with Penn State. Since you seem to be one of the most thoroughly informed around here it seems like you must have read this and other similar articles:

Penn State, Second Mile ties far reaching
 
Nixon was last President in 1974 (37 years ago). Joe Paterno was not 84-years-old in 1973 and was not exhibiting word recall problems which in the elderly are a symptom of a cerebral vascular accident (stroke), Organic Brain Disease, and/or Alzheimer's. You can see him struggle to find words in this video and this states that it was posted 5 years ago.

Joe Paterno Bloopers Penn State

With all due respect, I'm reasonably familiar with when Richard Nixon was President and how many years ago that was. What I'm also familiar with is that the video I posted was filmed on August 29, 2008 at a student pep rally, THREE years ago, not 37. His recall and word skills on that night seem superb to my untrained eye.

The point of my post was, and is, that the article posted by Scorpio had rumors of statements and information furnished by Joe Paterno to the grand jury regarding the rape in the showers in 2002.

If true, Joe Paterno is still mentally sharp enough to tell the grand jury:

-That 3 days after McQueary talked with Curley and Schultz, he followed up and was told a full investigation was underway to investigate these matters.

-After not hearing anything, 3 months later, he followed up and was told that the police and the DA were not going to pursue the matter.

-His reaction was one of anger and that he demanded that Sandusky be barred from campus. Paterno was told that he did not have that authority.

-He then said that he was going to bar Sandusky from the football facility and was told he did have the authority.

I have no idea if any of these four crucial points are true or not. In all honesty, I hope they are. I take no pleasure in what has happened to a legend in college football. If true, I don't understand why he didn't make this information public. As I said in my post, he would go from zero to hero in many eyes, including mine.
 
Originally Posted by ScorpRising
~Respectfully Snipped~

Political games are afoot, my posting friends. One non-profit donates $600k+ to the gov's campaign while ALL big gas co's in the state combined donated only $1M. Big gas had a lot riding on this guy. What did Second Mile have riding on this guy?

$3,000,000.00 that we know of.

Hahahahhaaaa. Yeah seems like the gov was planning to give a little payback. It's hard to keep all that stuff straight. But what I'm wondering is a non-profit donating to a political campaign. Donating $600k??? Seems weird to me.
 
I realize that Sandusky wasn't showering for the purpose to clean off a smelly child. Indigent child smelliness was likely Sandusky's excuse for why the child was in the shower with him. Yes, Paterno and all the others that knew of the 2002 incident should have notified the AG's office and the FBI, IMO. If Paterno, the university President, and others knew about the 1998 incident, they should have notified the FBI instead of the "real police" because the "real police" would have turned the case over to Ray Gricar. If they knew of the 1998 case, they might have thought that it was a waste of time to notify the real police because Gricar might not have prosecuted the rape since he didn't prosecute the 1998 molestation.

First, you will have to separate what happened in the shower from the shower itself. That is where it exits any grey area and enters the felony zone.

Second, calling AG would probably get it sent back to the DA's Office. The AG is not a "super prosecutor," that can swoop in and take the case.
 
respectfully snipped: Many people don't study pedophiles and they wouldn't know that this is what fixated pedophiles do..........except for Dr. Jack Raykovitz, child psychologist and CEO x 28 years for Second Mile.

I strongly agree with you on that angle. It may be a happy outcome to hear about Sandusky to taking it up the wazoo in prison, but for me real satisfying Schadenfreude would be to have Raykovitz under the microscope and see how much squirming he has to do.
 
I wasn't thinking the GJP would include something with the direct goal of exculpating Paterno. But suppose Paterno had done something like was described: "Paterno followed up and was told that the police and the DA were not going to pursue the matter. It is reported that Paterno's reaction was one of anger and that he demanded that Sandusky be barred from campus."

That would be part of the factual record vital to a case against Curly and Shultz, which is part of the presentment. However I defer to others because of my total lack of legal background.

I agree with your emphasis on donations and other financial mechanisms behind the scenes. It would be nice to have some kind of concept-map-like diagram / timeline summarizing all the money involved (including contracts Second Mile board members' companies had with the university). If I didn't have a job to attend to I could really get into that kind of investigative stuff.

Penn State is a HUGE university with 500,000 living alumni. One will have to look to Mars to find people/industries outside of Penn State's six degrees of separation. Whoops! Penn State's Astronomy & Astrophysics ranks # 3 nationally, so they may have contact with life on Mars. Scratch that last statement. ;)
http://www2.astro.psu.edu/users/nnp/dptrank.html


Here is an interesting article that hasn't been posted yet:
Louie Sheetz's (Sheetz is a giant franchise of VERY successful convenience stores) first meeting as a member of the board of directors for The Second Mile was in 2009 - the day founder Jerry Sandusky revealed to the board he was under investigation for alleged improprieties with a child.
Sandusky gave convincing protestations of innocence - "Listen, it's no big deal, it's completely unfounded."
http://mycstoreworld.com/forum/topi...bombshell-of-sandus?xg_source=shorten_twitter
 
Originally Posted by BigCat
"Second Mile is...Penn State."

Pensfan response:
"Lord have mercy. It is not."

Pensfan later comment:
"Penn State is a HUGE university with 500,000 living alumni. One will have to look to Mars to find people/industries outside of Penn State's six degrees of separation."

You can't have it both ways, Pennsfan. First you say Second Mile is totally unrelated to Penn State. Then you say everything in the world is related to Penn State (especially I assume, in Pennsylvania, since I don't feel a big influence of Penn State in my own particular context).

The article you posted about Sheetz' recollection of Sandusky's ouster from Second Mile was very informative. Thanks a lot!
 
respectfully snipped: It had nothing to do with them being indigent. It had everything to do with them being boys.

JERRY SANDUSKY:
Okay, we-- we were showing and-- and horsing around. And he actually turned all the showers on and was-- actually sliding-- across the-- the floor. And we were-- as I recall possibly like snapping a towel, horseplay.

Yep, definitely nothing to do with indigence. The boys were not street urchins.

Also, note that in stressing "horseplay" Sandusky inadvertently spoke code for homosexual activity:

In google.books.com, use the search terms: 1920s+ horseplay sexual
which finds the link Love, sex, and marriage: a historical thesaurus - Page 70
where a definition states that horseplay is one of the euphemisms for "the act of giving sexual caresses."

In google.books.com, use the search terms: Cassells "horse around"
which finds the link Cassell's dictionary of slang - Page 741 where the second definition of "horse around" is "to make sexual advances to, to indulge in sexual horseplay."

In google.books.com, use the search terms: 1920s+ horseplay "dry rub"
which finds the link Cassell's dictionary of slang - Page 455 where the definition of "dry rub" is " v. 1 [late 19C] to beat severely. 2 [1950s+] (US gay) to wrestle or engage in similar 'horseplay' with strong homosexual overtones.”
 
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