Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #4

[Pensfan]

With all due respect, I'm reasonably familiar with when Richard Nixon was President and how many years ago that was. What I'm also familiar with is that the video I posted was filmed on August 29, 2008 at a student pep rally, THREE years ago, not 37. His recall and word skills on that night seem superb to my untrained eye.

Respectfully shortened:
This is, respectfully, what you missed: Long term memory is the last to go in dementia patients and those with Alzheimer’s. Recalling events from the distant past (such as a 1974 discussion) is a very stable form of memory which is far more resistant to the effects of memory disorders. With what relevance did this old discussion have to students in 2008? None. That odd pep rally speech likely had every neurologist, internist, and psychiatrist that heard it wondering about Joe Pa’s mental acuity. The short speech in front of his home last month was also disjointed and peculiar like several other of his recent impromptu speeches.

Originally Posted by BigCat
"Second Mile is...Penn State."
You can't have it both ways, Pennsfan. First you say Second Mile is totally unrelated to Penn State. Then you say everything in the world is related to Penn State (especially I assume, in Pennsylvania, since I don't feel a big influence of Penn State in my own particular context).

I posted that Second Mile is not Penn State and it isn't. If you are going to consider Penn State to be Second Mile, then you must consider Penn State to be pediatric cancer research/ treatment, Special Olympics, Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania, Ronald McDonald House Charities, State College Area Food Bank, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Hope for Haiti, Feed the Children, American Red Cross, and hundreds of other charity programs that Penn State has assisted.

 

[FloatingStar]

"No sense can be made of Sandusky's position or his lawyer's decision to allow him to speak," says Mr. Anderson. Denying and minimizing "is the mantle that the molester always dons when confronted with the reality of their crimes, both in the court of public opinion and in the courtroom."

In the Costas interview, Sandusky denied that he's a pedophile, though he admitted that he "horsed around" with boys in showers, occasionally patting their legs, snapping towels, and hugging them, but "without intent of sexual contact."

"But other lawyers said Sandusky's decision to talk about the case is likely to hurt him. Some point out that Sandusky actually admitted to breaking the law, since it's illegal for professional mentors in Pennsylvania to shower naked with their charges."

“He’s just given up his Fifth Amendment rights not to incriminate himself. All of that can and will be used against him,” New York attorney Tom Harvey told the New York Daily News."

Bob Costas interview: Did Jerry Sandusky make things worse for himself?

 

[FloatingStar]

Compulsively putting Penn State on a pedestal and compulsive rationalizing way all possible flaws in Penn State academic and sports culture seems to approach being a psychological disorder. It is this type of cognitive bunker mentality that lead to the whole scandal in the first place.

 

[ThoughtFox]

The word "horseplay," or the term "horsing around," does not necessarily mean sexual activity, to me at least. It could include that, but I've probably used it to describe non-sexual activity.

I find a 55 year old man showering naked with a non-related 11 year old boy, also naked, very troubling. I would not necessarily find that to be illegal. It is a question of where the line is crossed into illegality.

I'd call just showering a grey area, but the bear hug very clearly crosses the line.

And then there's the fact that he's lying about it only being horseplay. Juries have a way of noticing things like that. :innocent:

 

[twinkiesmom]

Respectfully shortened:
This is, respectfully, what you missed: Long term memory is the last to go in dementia patients and those with Alzheimer’s. Recalling events from the distant past (such as a 1974 discussion) is a very stable form of memory which is far more resistant to the effects of memory disorders. With what relevance did this old discussion have to students in 2008? None. That odd pep rally speech likely had every neurologist, internist, and psychiatrist that heard it wondering about Joe Pa’s mental acuity. The short speech in front of his home last month was also disjointed and peculiar like several other of his recent impromptu speeches.

Originally Posted by BigCat
"Second Mile is...Penn State."
You can't have it both ways, Pennsfan. First you say Second Mile is totally unrelated to Penn State. Then you say everything in the world is related to Penn State (especially I assume, in Pennsylvania, since I don't feel a big influence of Penn State in my own particular context).

I posted that Second Mile is not Penn State and it isn't. If you are going to consider Penn State to be Second Mile, then you must consider Penn State to be pediatric cancer research/ treatment, Special Olympics, Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania, Ronald McDonald House Charities, State College Area Food Bank, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Hope for Haiti, Feed the Children, American Red Cross, and hundreds of other charity programs that Penn State has assisted.

I do not understand where you're coming from on several of these issues.

I don't understand what the point is of all the JoePa posts. Either he's mentally clear or not...either he will have surgery or not...either he will have chemo or not...none of which is really relevant to this case. He will not be a star witness for the prosecution either way, nor is he likely to be able to fully rehabilitate his image even if he is able to testify with some clarity.

Regarding Second Mile...It is the fruit of the poisonous tree. You can't say the same thing about the other charities you listed, most of which are national and have little relevance to Penn State.

I'm proud to be an Illini...Their losing football team had no impact on the great education I received.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I posted that Second Mile is not Penn State and it isn't. If you are going to consider Penn State to be Second Mile, then you must consider Penn State to be pediatric cancer research/ treatment, Special Olympics, Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania, Ronald McDonald House Charities, State College Area Food Bank, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Hope for Haiti, Feed the Children, American Red Cross, and hundreds of other charity programs that Penn State has assisted.

But in this case, Second Mile was connected to the football program in particular, from what we know. And it was founded by our perpetrator!

So those other charities are irrelevant to this case, but Second Mile is where he got the victims, and many of the benefactors seem to be apologists for Sandusky.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_special_report_th.html

The son of Penn State’s board chairman served on the Second Mile’s board. More than three-quarters of the current Second Mile board are Penn State alumni.

Penn State students served as interns at The Second Mile, soliciting donations from local businesses for charity events, and received university course credit for doing so.

Penn State football players volunteered for The Second Mile. And The Second Mile featured Penn State players on inspirational sports cards it distributed to children in 421 of Pennsylvania’s 500 school districts.

It was great public relations for Penn State’s athletic program. More than 1 million sets of cards were distributed.


http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...ely-lawsuit-by-sandusky-victims#ixzz1f0XE6Z00

"Second Mile Charity Faces Likely Lawsuit by Sandusky Victims"

The New York Times is reporting that The Second Mile will be sued for negligence for its failure to report its knowledge of accusations against Sandusky to officials. An injunction was filed by one of the alleged victims in an attempt to stop the charity from transferring or divesting its assets.

 

[believe09]

I am hoping to read Sandusky has been remanded. It is the only thing to do, but I am not a judge.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And then there's the fact that he's lying about it only being horseplay. Juries have a way of noticing things like that. :innocent:

Well, that is a bit weaker. There was no admission by Sandusky of that, only one witness directly to the act, Victim 2. There is a lot of corroboration of Victim 1's story, but not a direct witness that said, **I saw Sandusky do that.**

I'm looking at the evidence, and just that.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Respectfully shortened:
This is, respectfully, what you missed: Long term memory is the last to go in dementia patients and those with Alzheimer’s. Recalling events from the distant past (such as a 1974 discussion) is a very stable form of memory which is far more resistant to the effects of memory disorders. With what relevance did this old discussion have to students in 2008? None. That odd pep rally speech likely had every neurologist, internist, and psychiatrist that heard it wondering about Joe Pa’s mental acuity. The short speech in front of his home last month was also disjointed and peculiar like several other of his recent impromptu speeches.

Originally Posted by BigCat
"Second Mile is...Penn State."
You can't have it both ways, Pennsfan. First you say Second Mile is totally unrelated to Penn State. Then you say everything in the world is related to Penn State (especially I assume, in Pennsylvania, since I don't feel a big influence of Penn State in my own particular context).

I posted that Second Mile is not Penn State and it isn't. If you are going to consider Penn State to be Second Mile, then you must consider Penn State to be pediatric cancer research/ treatment, Special Olympics, Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania, Ronald McDonald House Charities, State College Area Food Bank, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Hope for Haiti, Feed the Children, American Red Cross, and hundreds of other charity programs that Penn State has assisted.

I don't think any of those groups had ties to Penn State like the Second Mile did. In fact this article points out it was the close ties of Penn State to Second Mile that probably allowed Sandusky to molest so many boys.. As criminal and independent investigators seek to explain how Sandusky could elude detection for so long, they have zeroed in on the business ties between the Second Mile, its own board members, and the university exemplified at the Center for Excellence deal.

At their best, those strong social and financial links helped the board turn the charity Sandusky founded in 1977 into the most dominant nonprofit for at-risk youth in central Pennsylvania.

At worst, analysts fear, they may have blurred the lines of personal responsibility, putting top leaders in positions where their strong ties to the university and the Sandusky brand prevented them from acting as independent governors.

And now, those same ties may force the Second Mile to close its doors.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-27/news/30447188_1_joe-paterno-penn-state-football-jerry-sandusky

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Over the years, those ties only grew stronger. Paterno often served as master of ceremonies at the charity's annual golf fund-raisers and sent his players to the Second Mile for internship opportunities.

Thanks in large part to those ties, Second Mile's total worth ballooned from $1 million to $9 million during the last decade - allowing the charity today to reach more than 100,000 children annually across the state through leadership and football camps, foster-family support, and one-on-one mentoring.

And the organization's board members have historically been among top donors to the charity and Penn State. http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-...-paterno-penn-state-football-jerry-sandusky/2

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Several Second Mile board members received lucrative contracts from Penn State, including Michael Fiore - a managing partner at Leonard S. Fiore Construction in State College. He took in $28 million from the university in 2008 and 2009 for building projects, including new research and arts centers and renovations to the campus' library and tennis courts.

The university paid the company owned by board chairman Poole an additional $25 million during the last two years to renovate campus buildings and to construct a new softball stadium. http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-...-paterno-penn-state-football-jerry-sandusky/2

 

[Dr.Fessel]

How the Second Mile decided to award the center's construction contract to Poole, its board chairman, remains unclear.

He did not return numerous calls for comment. Representatives of his company - Poole Anderson - said they were not authorized to discuss the deal. And sometime within the last month, the company removed the project from its website.

Second Mile chief executive David Woodle also declined to talk about the Poole Anderson contract in detail, saying only: "There was a competitive bid done."

Even so, said Otten, a charity awarding such a large contract to a member of its own board gives the appearance of a conflict of interest.

"If the college and the charity are so central to your business," she said, "it's going to impair your judgment on how you're going to handle a situation in which their interests diverge." http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-...-paterno-penn-state-football-jerry-sandusky/3 Is there really anyone who thinks the bidding on that contract was fair and honest?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

According to land records, the charity bought the parcel from Penn State in 2002 for $168,500 - about $15,000 less than the university paid for it three years earlier.

But other transactions suggest the property was worth thousands more. The previous owner - Pittsburgh probate lawyer Mark Bookman - paid $320,000 when he bought it in 1990. Two decades later, an independent real estate assessor valued it at $2.5 million in documents used to secure funding for the building project. http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-...-paterno-penn-state-football-jerry-sandusky/3

 

[believe09]

It just gets better and better doesnt it, Dr Fessel??

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It just gets better and better doesnt it, Dr Fessel??

It sure does. The millions those two contractors got are for just two years.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Respectfully shortened:

This is, respectfully, what you missed: Long term memory is the last to go in dementia patients and those with Alzheimer’s. Recalling events from the distant past (such as a 1974 discussion) is a very stable form of memory which is far more resistant to the effects of memory disorders. With what relevance did this old discussion have to students in 2008? None. That odd pep rally speech likely had every neurologist, internist, and psychiatrist that heard it wondering about Joe Pa’s mental acuity. The short speech in front of his home last month was also disjointed and peculiar like several other of his recent impromptu speeches.

I have no reason to dispute anything you're saying regarding long term memory in dementia patients and those with Alzheimer’s. Sounds reasonable to me.

One thing I am indeed missing in all of this, however, is what does this have to do with my post regarding rumored statements and information revealed to the grand jury by Joe Paterno? Are you saying the information contained in the link, and clearly stated as rumor, can't be true because there's not enough of JoePa's brain left to recall what did or didn't happen in 2002 and what his action was or wasn't?

If this diagnosis is correct, how was he able to still function as head coach of a nationally ranked, division 1, colllege football team? If his capacity is diminished to such a degree, why and how was he allowed/required to testify in front of a grand jury?

 

[stilettos]

The word "horseplay," or the term "horsing around," does not necessarily mean sexual activity, to me at least. It could include that, but I've probably used it to describe non-sexual activity.

I find a 55 year old man showering naked with a non-related 11 year old boy, also naked, very troubling. I would not necessarily find that to be illegal. It is a question of where the line is crossed into illegality.

I'd call just showering a grey area, but the bear hug very clearly crosses the line.

First of all...where I come from a 55 year old man exposing himself naked to an 11 year old is illegal. Secondly, them showering together should be. The fact that"horsing around" occurred...one hand on the child naked is all kinds of wrong. Did the parents of this child give permission for this 55 year old man to have the child strip naked and then he himself strip naked and shower together? :furious:

 

[stilettos]

I like this article.

....prosecutors turned instead to a different section of Pennsylvania's criminal code for the most serious of the sex offenses the former Penn State assistant coach faces.

Each of those seven felony counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse carries a potential sentence of up to 20 years in prison, the same as rape.
http://www.newschief.com/article/20111127/APA/1111271024

As well it should. It is rape.

 

[MaryNo]

Where is Sandusky? Why aren't we seeing/hearing about Sandusky sightings, or reporters hounding him for "on the street" interviews? I remember all of the speculation related to Casey Anthony and her Starbucks/Old Navy venture. The hounding/tracking for those pictures of Casey Anthony, but nada for this guy?

I think this guy warrants a steady stream of attention until he's had his day in court.

However, and of course this is my opinion only, the same culture that protected him in his predatory behavior is still offering him a blanket of protection today.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/555789/Offering-Sandusky-to-PSU-Altoona---.html

Between late 1998 and early 1999, Sandusky and Joe Paterno met with Penn State President Graham Spanier and Allen Meadors, then Penn State Altoona's chief executive officer, about the possibility of starting a football program here - with the idea that Sandusky would be the head coach.

Now, in the continuing aftermath of the horrendous story of Sandusky being charged with 40 counts of sexual abuse of eight boys, leading to the firing of Paterno and Spanier - we cannot stop thinking of the out-of-the-blue idea to start football at Penn State Altoona.

First I have heard of this. Interesting.