Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

[al66pine]

Tipstaff,
Sorry for misattributing the quotation to you.
Not a reflection on you. My bad.

Non-pursuit of contract renewal negotiations btwn a U. & 84 y/o is a "firing?"

Apparently yes, per those who think JoePa walks on water.
........................................................................................................
ETA
Not to diminish JoePa's accomplishments at PennSt.

From his reported action of listening to Mike McQ's narration in 2002. and then passng it up the line,
JoePa seemed to have met his obligation, per U. policy.
I don't know that an employee in his position was obligated to get details from McQ.
The criminal failing seems to fall more on the shouldrs of Curley, Schultz, and perhaps Spanier.

And that pesky little matter of alleged perjury by Curley & Schultz.

 

[Rlaub44]

Tipstaff,
Sorry for misattributing the quotation to you.
Not a reflection on you. My bad.

Non-pursuit of contract renewal negotiations btwn a U. & 84 y/o is a "firing?"

Apparently yes, per those who think JoePa walks on water.
........................................................................................................
ETA
Not to diminish JoePa's accomplishments at PennSt.

From his reported action of listening to Mike McQ's narration in 2002. and then passng it up the line,
JoePa seemed to have met his obligation, per U. policy.
I don't know that an employee in his position was obligated to get details from McQ.
The criminal failing seems to fall more on the shouldrs of Curley, Schultz, and perhaps Spanier.

And that pesky little matter of alleged perjury by Curley & Schultz.

Bold by me:

According to Paterno's interview, the term used in his brief phone conversation with Trustee Surma was "terminated". That and the fact that he was not allowed to return to coach the remaining games of the season definitely validates the fact that he was indeed fired as the head football coach. If it was a simple non-renewal of his contract, he would certainly have completed the remainder of the season

Some confusion persists because he is still considered employed as a tenured faculty member at the university, although he clearly no longer has any teaching responsibilities.

 

[Reader]

Criminal cases against Jerry Sandusky may be combined

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/14/3052178/criminal-cases-may-be-combined.html#storylink=cpy

Prosecutors have consolidated the two criminal cases against Jerry Sandusky and will try them as one, according to documents filed by the Attorney General’s Office on Friday.

Senior Deputy Attorney General Jonelle Eshbach filed a notice of consolidation in Centre County Court on Friday for the two cases that represent two separate arrests — one on Nov. 5 and the other on Dec. 7.

Eshbach also filed a motion to amend some of the indecent assault charges, but she wrote that the changes don’t involve new evidence.

The motion involves changing the subsection of five indecent assault charges under Pennsylvania criminal code.

Sandusky’s attorney, Joe Amendola, has until Tuesday to respond to the motion.
-------


Former Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley and retired administrator Gary Schultz have entered not guilty pleas and will waive their formal arraignment on perjury and failure to [report] abuse charges in Dauphin County Court next week, their lawyers said Friday.


More at link...

 

[Reader]

New Second Mile facility site for sale

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/14/3052177/new-facility-site-for-sale.html#storylink=cpy

The Second Mile will sell the Patton Township property where two months ago it stopped construction on what was going to be its Center for Excellence, the organization announced Friday.

Construction on the 45,000- square-foot facility, at 2400 Bernel Road, was stopped in November after the charity’s founder, Jerry Sandusky, was charged with sexually abusing boys he met through the organization. The state froze a $3 million grant that had been given for the $9 million project.

More at link...

 

[Steely Dan]

This pretty well sums up critical thinking re: the Paterno Washington Post "interview" piece (linked above):

Joe Paterno’s First Interview Since The Sandusky Scandal Is A Five Page Waste Of Time (Deadspin)

Other highlights (lowlights?) of interview at link (and also another link to Washington Post interview itself)

uke: Does he really expect any reasonable person to believe that or the other garbage he spews in that summary of the article?

 

[Tipstaff]

For 50+ years families entrusted their sons to Joe Paterno and Staff. Paterno sat in the homes of these young men and promised their families they would get a great education, play football and mature into successful young men....his staff made these same promises.

Now he wants the public to believe HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO when these allegations against Sandusky were presented to him. How long has 911 been around Jo.....three little numbers on your telephone key pad.

Not buying the pathetic interview because honestly it was all about poor Joe!

This interview was all about making him a sympathetic figure with his illness etc.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This will no doubt be unpopular here, but Paterno did the right thing initially, He took the report, and turned it over to the head of the law enforcement agency for that jurisdiction. He couldn't fire Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him.

I think you can ask if Paterno had a legal obligation to follow up; he did not. The question is, did he do enough as a highly influential member of the faculty. Now, I think he might even answer yes to that. Joe Paterno failed to live up to the standard he set for himself; he failed at living up to the legend of being Joe Paterno.

All that said, there were others substantially more culpable in this case than Joe Paterno.

 

[Chili Fries]

Paterno proves that living a long life and gaining wisdom are two different things.

 

[StellarsJay]

The only thing that rang true for me in Paterno's ramble was that he thought he was so powerful that any calls he made to ask questions might affect Sandusky's outcome and he didn't want any responsiblity for that. But if this part of his "ethics" is unchanged, then he may be picking his words to avoid affecting McQueary, Curley and Schmidt. Saying he bumbled shields them, and this time it's true.

Staying out of it was also a big fu to the University after they tried to tell him he couldn't discipline his own players.
Lived his life among locker room jokes and the Church scandals and still couldn't understand? Piffle.
He understood, but he still doesn't get it- either the magnitude or that it was on his watch.
Sue gets it to some extent, does the motherly horror and threatens to kill, but to her it's still black and white, lives destroyed, get personal vengeance, not do what it would take to provide public protection. Maybe she would get to that if she had said more.

Joe would keep it private with his buddies, and it's worth a mere punch in the nose? Not a matter for police? The code of Omerta lives.

I now see why Jay couldn't stay at Penn- lots of reasons, some nothing to do with football.

 

[Tipstaff]

This will no doubt be unpopular here, but Paterno did the right thing initially, He took the report, and turned it over to the head of the law enforcement agency for that jurisdiction. He couldn't fire Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him.

I think you can ask if Paterno had a legal obligation to follow up; he did not. The question is, did he do enough as a highly influential member of the faculty. Now, I think he might even answer yes to that. Joe Paterno failed to live up to the standard he set for himself; he failed at living up to the legend of being Joe Paterno.

All that said, there were others substantially more culpable in this case than Joe Paterno.

Agree with everything but the last line - and to that I would say Joe Paterno was THE POWER at Penn State.

To say he waited because it was Saturday or the weekend - his biggest days of the week were Saturday. Game Day. All in all he failed morally - legally he skates. But he is a sick old man with an * by his name in the history books!

Enjoy your posts here and on Gricar!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agree with everything but the last line - and to that I would say Joe Paterno was THE POWER at Penn State.

To say he waited because it was Saturday or the weekend - his biggest days of the week were Saturday. Game Day. All in all he failed morally - legally he skates. But he is a sick old man with an * by his name in the history books!

Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

 

[Steely Dan]

Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

With all due respect, I don't buy that for a second. Paterno could have fired Sandusky if he wanted and nobody would have said boo to him about it. As for getting him banned from campus he could have done that by simply requesting it of the President. IMO, nobody would ever say no to Paterno. JMO

 

[Tiki]

If Paterno felt he couldn't call 911 because he was not a witness, then he should have had McQueary - the witness - call LE. I don't give anyone any slack because of the college's procedures.
JMO

.

 

[Reader]

With all due respect, I don't buy that for a second. Paterno could have fired Sandusky if he wanted and nobody would have said boo to him about it. As for getting him banned from campus he could have done that by simply requesting it of the President. IMO, nobody would ever say no to Paterno. JMO

I agree with you but remember in 2002 Sandusky was already retired with his 'special benefits' since 1999. That's when Paterno basically fired him when he told him he would never be head coach, conveniently after the 1998 investigation of JS.

Yes, with everything I've read so far it seems that Paterno was THE power at Penn. State and could have had the AD, police and Pres. do whatever he wanted them to. I don't buy this 'I didn't know what to do' boo hoo mess', or 'I was just following procedure'...he MADE the procedures...

 

[ThoughtFox]

Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

:cow:

Prestige = Power

He had the power to get rid of Sandusky and he knew it.

The great "unsaid" is that Sandusky was too tied up in the business deals and partnerships that were earning Paterno and his friends some sweet moolah. Nearly everyone was connected in some way to Second Mile, including Penn State itself. It's been well-documented by several people here on the threads and in the MSM.

Whatever happened to Second Mile also happened to Penn State, and that's exactly what has happened - Paterno's real fears were realized when this thing blew up in their faces. So that's why he didn't pull strings and get rid of Sandusky - the same strings would tangle all of them up in it, which is what happened. :twocents:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

:cow:

Prestige = Power

He had the power to get rid of Sandusky and he knew it.

There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken. He didn't follow up, and he, unlike some of the parties was in a position to follow up. I don't, for example, blame the investigator, who was not in a position to follow up, once the prosecutor said he wouldn't prosecute.

The great "unsaid" is that Sandusky was too tied up in the business deals and partnerships that were earning Paterno and his friends some sweet moolah. Nearly everyone was connected in some way to Second Mile, including Penn State itself. It's been well-documented by several people here on the threads and in the MSM.

Whatever happened to Second Mile also happened to Penn State, and that's exactly what has happened - Paterno's real fears were realized when this thing blew up in their faces. So that's why he didn't pull strings and get rid of Sandusky - the same strings would tangle all of them up in it, which is what happened. :twocents:

I don't disagree that there was a monetary motive and that the incestuous relationship between the Board and SM was there, but that wasn't Paterno.

 

[Quiche]

They all failed those boys, all of them. The men of Penn State, their wives, the men and women of TSM, all of them. imo

When all is said and done, the reputation of Penn State, in reality, has nothing to do with these children being raped repeatedly-- the failure of the adults in the know to act on their behalf and STOP the crime is the gauge of culpability I'm going to use, and I dare say that courtroom will too. The jury will have a rather cut and dry issue to debate after all is said and done.

If Erickson really wanted to "take control" of the dialogue, he'd start admitting some failures now, and mending as much as he can before this trial eviscerates (completely) the reputation of his institution. TSM is sunk, and it should be. imo

 

[StellarsJay]

If Paterno felt he couldn't call 911 because he was not a witness, then he should have had McQueary - the witness - call LE. I don't give anyone any slack because of the college's procedures.
JMO

.

Yes. Tiki.
Mike McQueary told all those senior men: Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Dranov, and to some extent I include his father John in this- and they all in effect said, "No, you don't need to call the police directly, leave it alone now and we'll take care of it." Instead any or all of them could have said, "If this can possibly be true, we'll all work together to stop it."

 

[costalpilot]

....For an institution of higher learning, there's a lot of stupidity coming from their leadership. Why can't they see that they're beat, and STHU? Simply amazing to me.

imo because they live in an insular world which was DOMINATED by penn state football, and joe paterno. Power is an alluring and seductive drug.

consider the (controlled) jenkins "interview". if anyone wants to believe those were true statements coming out of joepa's (cute name isn't it) mouth, be my guest. but it is obvious to me that a Catholic man in America knows about adult men raping boys. OBVIOUS. but joe pa's atty's and advisors decided it is OK to have joepa say, "I never heard of such a thing."

how could they?

reminds me of bill clinton: depends on the definition of "is"? I never had sex with that woman.

how could handlers of an old man have him say that. how could they?

insular power.

 

[costalpilot]

....There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken.....QUOTE]

(my bold)

with respect, i do not believe that joepa believed "proper" action was taken, although i might, depending on your and joepa's definition of the word.

"proper" in the sense, "will this action protect the powerbase", yes. i agree.

it did that. he probably believed that, to a degree. but i'm sure that sometimes, just every now and then, dark images intruded into the king's thoughts. and he knew, if only for a second (before he pushed them away for a time), that evil had creeped into his house, and that he was responsible for allowing it to grow and fester and thrive.