Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #3

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http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/05/25/peru.berenson/index.html


This lady spent 15 years in a Peru prison. She looks fine. She made it.

O/T, but I am so glad Lori Berenson finally got released..I've been following her story for a long time. Actually, she is not as well as she looks. The prison she was in wreaked havoc on her health--high altitude, no heat. She's got some serious arthritic problems, among other things. She did manage to marry and have a baby while in prison.

Before I found out she is getting released, I was going to post her website so people here could read about how corrupt the judicial system in Peru really is. http://www.freelori.org/

I thought her prison sounded horrendous until I saw the video about Luchangar (sp?) !
 
I have been reading back through this thread and was just wondering if I overlooked it but I have a question. Has anyone heard or read anything about Joran's mother?
 
Oh well, never mind. I guess 35 years in a Peru prison might as well be a death sentence.
 
I think the extortion issue is irrelevant to this crime. He is a sociopath and con. He would have found a way to get to this poker tournament whether by begging, borrowing, lying, cheating, stealing or other criminal activity.

The fact that he did not rape this victim does not mean he did not intend to do so. I think he hates and despises women. His sex life cannot be in any way normal thus the need for date rape drugs. He may have become enraged because he could not get aroused. His lifestyle also would contribute to problems getting aroused - up late, not enough sleep, drugs, alcohol, intense anger. Maybe he has to drug them or they would leave, press charges, tell his deep dark secrets. With the date rape drugs, they don't remember.
 
Here is the portion of ONLY "San Juan de Lurigancho" Prison that was part of the larger video of "World's Worst Prisons."

The videos are NOT YouTube videos only because I was concerned about copyright via YouTube, since I re-recorded it from Hulu's video.


The links are in the description of the video. You need to click on the word "YouTube" at the top of the video in order to get to the description where the links are located.

[video=youtube;eeqqhrboVvw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeqqhrboVvw[/video]
 
I have been reading back through this thread and was just wondering if I overlooked it but I have a question. Has anyone heard or read anything about Joran's mother?

Quite a few have expressed concern [and contempt] for her, but as far as I can tell there has been nothing about her current activities or reactions.
 
I am thinking that the brutality of this killing is because the victim did not ingest the drugs that would make her pliable.

My guess is Mr. Charming tried to get her winnings from her, she did not cooperate, she may not have been an alcohol drinker so getting her wasted wasn't going to work, charm didn't work, goes and gets coffee which would mask the taste of GHB, she didn't drink that either and he flipped out. My guess for blunt force trauma is probably being kicked which could explain the broken neck, eye trauma, and no visible wounds on Joran.

moo

And I don't want to go back to find the posts where people could not how the whereabouts of the body offer is an extort attempt.... I think people are getting hung up on the verbage.

If you change it from I will *give* you something in exchange for the money (versus releasing something you don't want out in the public ie David Letterman) to

If you want to ever bury your child you will give me $250k, he is holding her body ransom. Still not the succinct analogy I am trying to find the words for but it is an attempt to extort without question.
 
There's obvious and then there's too obvious, and I'm wondering if this is starting to look a little too obvious.

At the very least there's:

hotel room was in his name
openly going in and out
cameras at hotel and casino

If they'd been hanging out would their dna be on each other (skin cells, maybe saliva)?

If he's guilty so be it, but if he's not who is? Could he have ticked off the wrong person? Could she have? Could her father have? Or could someone else have wanted her winnings?

Yesterday I felt sure he killed her. Today I'm not as sure.






I believe the videos would have shown someone going in and out of the hotel besides him and the girl.
 
There's obvious and then there's too obvious, and I'm wondering if this is starting to look a little too obvious.

At the very least there's:

hotel room was in his name
openly going in and out
cameras at hotel and casino

If they'd been hanging out would their dna be on each other (skin cells, maybe saliva)?

If he's guilty so be it, but if he's not who is? Could he have ticked off the wrong person? Could she have? Could her father have? Or could someone else have wanted her winnings?

Yesterday I felt sure he killed her. Today I'm not as sure.






What exactly made you change your mind? What are the odds that someone with a motive to kill her would know of and seize the opportunity to do so when she was with Joran? That anyone else did this is so farfetched in my opinion.
 
Just jumping off your post tiredofthis. :)

First I was surprised at the brutality of the murder of Stephany (although we don't have all the details as of yet). My gut clenched up for her and for Natalee (and any other unknown victims). I had thought as did a few others that Beth was correct in what she thought about Natalee's death and that it was more than likely what we see called a soft kill. She was drugged, sexually assaulted and the suffocated (one of theories).

However, looking at these two young women that are what we could call known victims of Joran I'm not so sure anymore about a lot of conclusions that I had come to during Natalee's case.

I am still mulling over thoughts here so bear with me while I type out what is troubling me this morning please.

I do not think at this point in time that it can be assumed that the motive for Stephany's murder was money. I don't think the motive for Natalee's murder was sexual assault. (The only example that I can think of at this moment is Ted Bundy, even though we don't know that JVDS has murdered but two people---with men of that ilk it's about the hunt, the kill, the so called victory).

I think that it's possible that the game of getting these young ladies into his company (possible shared circumstances---using drugs on these two girls without their consent) Luring them away from a comfort zone. Faking them out that they were safe within his company and then turning on them to drop his mask and show the monster that lies beneath might have been motive.

The problem I have seen described with dealing with sociopaths that murder is that we can't understand why they do what they do unless we can get inside of their head. I'm just not sure at this time that we can assign the ordinary motives that we see everyday to JVDS.

Sorry for such a long post! I'm still trying to puzzle out all of this.

All of the above is JMHO and not supported by links.

Hi, Kiat; thanks for a very candid note. I won't speculate about the exact circumstances of Natalee's fate, but it is clear that Joran was interested in her sexually.

Since then, he has become increasingly erratic, transformed from an honor student headed for a good college to a petulant, foot-loose gambler and self-styled gangsta. Money seems to have become his first and second priority, as evidenced by the extremely risky extortion move. In this instance, I honestly don't see any evidence of a sexual motive.
 
Quite a few have expressed concern [and contempt] for her, but as far as I can tell there has been nothing about her current activities or reactions.

Flow, Jumping off your post to respond to tired blondy.

I don't have a link, but read an article this am that Anita VDS was 'shocked' and allegedly stated she had not seen him since Paulus' funeral.

As an aside, Joran was allegedly in Aruba on May 10. No word on who he stayed with in Aruba....Anita would be my first guess because it makes sense, but that is JMO.

Just another unanswered question.:banghead:

wm
 
Quite a few have expressed concern [and contempt] for her, but as far as I can tell there has been nothing about her current activities or reactions.

Thanks. I was just wondering if she ran out of money or refused to give him anymore. I also wonder if she had any idea where he was? I have always wondered what she knew because I think her husband,Paulus and Joran hid a lot from her. Either way there's a lot we don't know about her either.
 
Really good article about Van der Sloot. Sorry if it's been posted before. Makes some really interesting comparisons to a few cases we have all been following, namely the Anthony debacle for one.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/04/for-van-der-sloot-the-end.html


*snipped from the Newsweek article JSR linked*

His friends in Holland and Aruba say his reputation is one of arrogance and self-entitlement. When Peter R. de Vries, one of Holland’s toughest crime reporters (picture the male Greta Van Susteren) questioned him on a television program about Holloway’s murder, his response was to throw a glass of wine in the journalist’s face the moment the show ended. “This says something about Joran,” de Vries said after the broadcast. “He doesn’t have complete control over his behavior.”

omg....I had forgotten about the wine-tossing incident, but I sure remember seeing it on video! A perfect example of how quickly he turned to rage! It was like looking into a 2-way mirror...

does anyone know how to find that video? it would be interesting to see again now, in context.
 
Flow, Jumping off your post to respond to tired blondy.

I don't have a link, but read an article this am that Anita VDS was 'shocked' and allegedly stated she had not seen him since Paulus' funeral.

wm

Thanks, That would not surprise me at all.
 
Thanks. I was just wondering if she ran out of money or refused to give him anymore. I also wonder if she had any idea where he was? I have always wondered what she knew because I think her husband,Paulus and Joran hid a lot from her. Either way there's a lot we don't know about her either.


There is a post regarding Joran's mother's reaction to news that he had been arrested. I believe it's back around page 14 give or take. It pretty much just said that she was shocked and something about the family not being able to cope with this so soon after his father's death.
 
I have been reading back through this thread and was just wondering if I overlooked it but I have a question. Has anyone heard or read anything about Joran's mother?

When reached at her home -- a one-story cinder block house painted mustard yellow -- Anita van der Sloot sounded composed and attempted to politely dismiss any inquiries about her son.

She has two other sons, Valentijn and Sebastian. She is now a widow. Her husband died suddenly last February while playing tennis.

``I don't know anything,'' Anita told The Herald. ``I haven't been in contact with Joran for a long time ...
 
*snipped from the Newsweek article JSR linked*



omg....I had forgotten about the wine-tossing incident, but I sure remember seeing it on video! A perfect example of how quickly he turned to rage! It was like looking into a 2-way mirror...

does anyone know how to find that video? it would be interesting to see again now, in context.

[video=youtube;oyZEM7ECohs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyZEM7ECohs[/video]
 
They just have to get out of him where Natalee is - I wonder if he will ever let them know? :( Surely the Kalpoe brothers are in a position where they could maybe bargain for the information? Or even his mother?
 
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